Iran seizes 15 British troops in Persian Gulf

Again you deflect, misrepresentating the first part and ignoring the second.

Not at all; I agree with the Americans leaving, as I've already said. Now is the rule going to be evenly applied or is this more "do as I say, not as I do"?

Iranian evils vs the Baluchistanis, however well-established, are irrelevant.

If well established - as you admit - why are they irrelevant? Because Baluchistani rights mean nothing to you? Because your concept of Iran relegates the Baluchis to servitude, simply because self-determination only matters if the occupiers are Westerners?

This is rampant anti-Baluchistanianarianism, if you ask me.
 
geoff said:
Now is the rule going to be evenly applied or is this more "do as I say, not as I do"?
The rule is going to be evenly applied, as soon as a relevant thread exists for it to be applied in.
 
Its called civil war.:rolleyes:

No - explain to me: why would there need to be any fighting over it? Who is going to be the aggressor? So stable borders can only be arrived at through war?? Answer, please. :D
 
No - explain to me: why would there need to be any fighting over it? Who is going to be the aggressor? So stable borders can only be arrived at through war?? Answer, please. :D

Like your aforementioned Gauls who live in France were to demand a piece of France and a chunk of Germany as Gaulland. Do you think the French and Germans would say Heigh ho?

70% of Balochis live in Pakistan.
 
SamCDKey:

The Gauls remain in France today. France is a Celto-Germanic nation, filled mostly with the descendents of Gauls, Franks, and Normans.

Similarly, Gaulic influences in Western Germany and Belgium remain.
 
Like your aforementioned Gauls who live in France were to demand a piece of France and a chunk of Germany as Gaulland. Do you think the French and Germans would say Heigh ho?

Ever hear of Alsace-Lorraine? Heh. Another topic.

No, the difference here is that Germans and French are today different groups culturally and ethnically. They are - in part at least these days - independent and have abandoned that independence (the seething monstrosity known as the EU, pronounced "Ewwwwww") willingly, not as the result of occupying armies. The last time the latter was attempted is termed by those with a grip of history as "WWII".

70% of Balochis live in Pakistan.

So Balochis should be creating a state from both nations simultaneously? I think I can agree with that.
 
SamCDKey:

The Gauls remain in France today. France is a Celto-Germanic nation, filled mostly with the descendents of Gauls, Franks, and Normans.

Similarly, Gaulic influences in Western Germany and Belgium remain.

I know. But what would France and Germany think of giving up part of their respective countries to a nation for Gauls?
 
Neither, it should be mentioned, are Gauls being oppressed for land rights to drive oil pipelines through their territory like big Iranian oil is planning to do to the Baluchis.
 
Ever hear of Alsace-Lorraine? Heh. Another topic.

No, the difference here is that Germans and French are today different groups culturally and ethnically. They are - in part at least these days - independent and have abandoned that independence (the seething monstrosity known as the EU, pronounced "Ewwwwww") willingly, not as the result of occupying armies. The last time the latter was attempted is termed by those with a grip of history as "WWII".

So Balochis should be creating a state from both nations simultaneously? I think I can agree with that.

Yup, and the Gauls are of German origin but that does not give them a right to a chunk of Germany especially since the majority of them do not live there.

Plus, you know, the Iranian government was assimilating the Baloch peoples in the 1970s. It was the Shah and the resultant Islamic revolution that put paid to that too.

And as for the Baloch, since they assimilated with the Dravidian people they have more in common with the Pakistanis, where most of them live anyway.

Genetically however the Iranians are a mixed people:
It is largely through linguistic similarities that the Iranian peoples have been linked, as many non-Iranian peoples have adopted Iranian languages and cultures. However, other common traits have been identified as well and a stream of common historical events have often linked the southern Iranian peoples, including Hellenistic conquests, the various empires based in Persia, Arab Caliphates and Turkic invasions.

Although most of the Iranian peoples settled in the Iranian plateau region, many expanded into the periphery, ranging from the Caucasus and Turkey to the Indus and western China. The Iranian peoples have often mingled with other populations, with the notable example being the Hazaras, who display a distinct Turkic-Mongol background that contrasts with most other Iranian peoples.[27] Similarly, the Baloch have mingled with the Dravidian-speaking Brahui (who have been strongly modified by Iranian invaders themselves), while the Ossetians have invariably mixed with Georgians and other Caucasian peoples. The Pashtuns vary with some having mingled with fellow Iranian groups such as the Tajiks and Turkic peoples and those to the east who have mingled with Dardic and Nuristani peoples. Moreover, the Kurds are an eclectic Iranian people who, although displaying some ethnolinguistic ties to other Iranian peoples (in particular their Iranian language and some cultural traits), are believed to have mixed with Caucasian and Semitic peoples.[28][18] Modern Persians themselves are also a heterogeneous group of peoples descended from various ancient Iranian and indigenous peoples of the Iranian plateau, including the Elamites.[29] Thus, not unlike the aforementioned example of Germanic peoples including the English, who are both of Germanic and Celtic origin, Iranians are an ethno-linguistic group and the Iranian peoples display varying degrees of common ancestry and cultural traits that denote their respective identities.

so any claim can hardly be exclusive.

Iraq for example has 150 tribes.
 
Neither, it should be mentioned, are Gauls being oppressed for land rights to drive oil pipelines through their territory like big Iranian oil is planning to do to the Baluchis.

I doubt the government in any country asks permission for construction on a national level. I know we have had several problems with dam building in India for example, the Narmada Andolan.
 
Yup, and the Gauls are of German origin but that does not give them a right to a chunk of Germany especially since the majority of them do not live there.

That doesn't relate to anything. The Balochis have a localized ancestral homeland. The Gauls were migratory idiots with sticks.

Plus, you know, the Iranian government was assimilating the Baloch peoples in the 1970s. It was the Shah and the resultant Islamic revolution that put paid to that too.

So! - the Balochi proliteriat have indeed suffered at the hands of a reactionary clique of religious extremists. You admit this.

Iraq for example has 150 tribes.

Are all 150 being oppressed, or asking for independence? :rolleyes: Don't be such a reactionary.
 
I doubt the government in any country asks permission for construction on a national level. I know we have had several problems with dam building in India for example, the Narmada Andolan.

But this is in the territory of a distinct and self-identified people being oppressed by the occupying army of a tin-pot dictator in Tehran. The structure of Iran is not homogenous, and the Baluchis are being oppressed. Why do you not care about this? Only certain kinds of occupation matter? Hypocrisy.
 
That doesn't relate to anything. The Balochis have a localized ancestral homeland. The Gauls were migratory idiots with sticks.

So! - the Balochi proliteriat have indeed suffered at the hands of a reactionary clique of religious extremists. You admit this.

Are all 150 being oppressed, or asking for independence? :rolleyes: Don't be such a reactionary.

Well the Balochis are migratory hicks in Pakistan and Afghanistan too. They live in the most arid areas of Iran, mostly in the mountains and are known to be similar to the mountainous people of Afghanistan. If you know anything about those people, you should know that when they are not fighting the government they are fighting each other; they have fierce tribe loyalties and tend to identify themselves with their clans. I think you know very little about the people you are claiming to support. Frankly, left to themselves, they are more likely to tend to extremism, it is better for them and their future to assimilate with the other people of Iran rather than turn into another Taliban.
 
But this is in the territory of a distinct and self-identified people being oppressed by the occupying army of a tin-pot dictator in Tehran. The structure of Iran is not homogenous, and the Baluchis are being oppressed. Why do you not care about this? Only certain kinds of occupation matter? Hypocrisy.

Duh! There are Maoists protesting against oppression from the Indian government too. Its not so much the government but the underdevelopment in these areas which causes this strife.
 
SamCDKey:

I don't imagine they'd want an autonomous enclave for the pure Gaulic citizens, even if France has something like that with the Bretons in Brittany being found amlost exclusively there.

A big difference, of course, is that the Gauls are wholly submerged in the overall ethnic composition of France. The Kurds, for instance, are not mixed with Arabs extensively in Iraq, nor the Tibetans with Chinese in Chinese Tibet.
 
Back
Top