"The Wise and God". A dialogue. A reflection...

teroko said:
I think our discussion goes nowhere
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Anyone discussing anything with Jan arrives at that same conclusion.

Jan Ardena said:
The Ten Commandments, is an obvious protection against bad things happening.
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Like what?

Jan Ardena said:
How do diseases come about in the first place?
Did the Coronavirus or Covid19 have a cause?
And could that cause have been prevented, or averted with strong immune systems?
What are the causes of weak immune systems?
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Can you include God and sin in the answers please?

Teroko may be young or not but he has you worked out already.

In any event Jan I hope you have a happy Easter and even if you decide to go to church that no harm comes to you.
For me I will use some time to think about how Christians stole a pagan celebration based in astrology in an effort to support the chocolate industry.:biggrin:
Alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
Like what?
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Like being brainwashed into thinking hippos turn into whales, down by the water front. And the indoctrination of young people.
Xelasnave.1947 said:
Can you include God and sin in the answers please?
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Yes.
Xelasnave.1947 said:
Teroko may be young or not but he has you worked out already.
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You’re right.
He knows I can see through his claims of belief in God.
Xelasnave.1947 said:
For me I will use some time to think about how Christians stole a pagan celebration based in astrology in an effort to support the chocolate industry.
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I will use the time to think how much pain that hippo must have been in, with that bone extending transformation. He only came out for a drink of water.

Happy Easter Alex.
 
Curious layman said:
'The Ten Commandments, is an obvious protection against bad things happening'

Holocaust, Rwandan genocide, Ethiopian famine, not mention the current situation. And there are 1050 commandments, depending on you religion of course. Good luck trying to follow them all.
https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands
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Thank you for that.
I will unmuzzle my oxen that are trampling corn.
I read the lot but I did not read the verse for each but I have read them all at some stage as you must reading the bible cover to cover.
Alex
 
Jan Ardena said:
Like being brainwashed into thinking hippos turn into whales, down by the water front. And the indoctrination of young people.
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You have to cite chapter and verse and I happen to know there is nothing in there about brainwashing folk to believe hippos turn into whales so there.
Alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
Thank you for that.
I will unmuzzle my oxen that are trampling corn.
I read the lot but I did not read the verse for each but I have read them all at some stage as you must reading the bible cover to cover.
Alex
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I tried to once, got about a quarter the way through and realised it was pointless. It's like reading the theory of relativity without the relevant science background or someone to guide you, it will just leave you confused. Tried the one on one relationship with God, but in all honesty I just don't believe, a God seems like a nice idea sometimes- revenge for evil people (Hitler etc), hope of something better for the innocent (victims of famine, war etc) but i've never witnessed anything to convince me of their existence.
 
Curious layman said:
I tried to once, got about a quarter the way through and realised it was pointless.
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I read it before I came here but reading dry stuff is right up my street. I studied law and after that you can read the phone book backwards and enjoy it.

Does wonders for your comprehension. Reading case law..what could be more fun reading what each judge said to support his decision...
I will never forget this a comment on a case,..." of course this case is absolute authority for what it decides, whatever that may be"...even in context you are not taken further.

I think most Christians have never read their bible cover to cover and think it's all good stuff like their pastor reads to them in church...it's not.
Alex
 
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Jan Ardena said:
vengeance; punishment inflicted or retribution exacted for an injury or wrong.

recompense; make amends to (someone) for loss or harm suffered; compensate.

revenge; the action of hurting or harming someone in return for an injury or wrong suffered at their hands.

Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’

Revenge and vengeance are not the same action.
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The quote I gave was wrong and I did not mention who wrote it so it goes....from brainyquote.com

Certainly, in taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy, but in passing it over, he is superior; for it is a prince's part to pardon.

Francis Bacon

Alex
 
And from the same brainyquote.com which I like.

There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness.

Dalai Lama
 
I think you went out of the scope of the thread so I will post something I wrote:

""From my point of view the Physics System of the Universe running all the Physics' Laws of the Universe seems to be flawing.

Nowadays organic molecules "break" causing mutations, cancer, cells' deterioration, aging and death. A more ideal kind of life should exist. Some physics-parameters could have a wrong real running value, some physical things could not be exactly the way they should be and the Universe could be in a not ideal state. Nature could be different.

Our Universe seems to have not born perfect. Something could have gone wrong in its creation.

Hope would exist if some "God", capable to fix the flaw, would exist.

But that God could have also been affected and have troubles...

May be we, all humans at Earth, could help someway just following our intuition. Every thing we could solve here could help God solve something there. Everything could be important.

That's what makes sense to me although with the lack of some proofs.

That's my faith.""

What do you to think about?
 
The God I talk is more related to the concept of a Creator God in Deim: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
That God would be able to intervent in the Physics of the Universe for instance adjusting the Physics' parameters to the ideal values they would have for an ideal form of life as should have been planned by the creator God and pointed out in the previous post. That is something no way humans could do. It would be something up to God only. It would be something God should have done long time ago, right, but what if he is in some big trouble and not able to do it?
The big challenge for us would be to figure out which would be that trouble and point out a solution. Seems a bit of faith is needed to accept such challenge of course...
 
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teroko said:
May be we, all humans at Earth, could help someway just following our intuition. Every thing we could solve here could help God solve something there. Everything could be important
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If you give me his address I will send a care package.

Clearly something is wrong with things that are not better than they could have been before they were not better and the question you ask is most compassionate particularly that you think everything could be involved which could be easy not to think about if you didnt think about these things and so you become curious to know if God could have some troubles and we could expect on the one hand that he being God has made everything as he intended and that flaws as you seem to think there may be are not flaws to him but there for reasons that he knows about but keeps as his secret or on the other hand he has created everything to be perfect but something he did not expect has left things not like he wanted them to be in the first place and for that reason he has been troubled but being God can not reveal that he is troubled or indeed that it is flaws that is troubling him because being God he whishes to not worry people as he knows they would worry if they knew he was troubled which probably means he is worried but what you leave out is if you think anyone could help or indeed if anyone should help and if they could help or should help how they could or should help however I expect people would help if they could and probably even think they should but they will ask how should they help if they could but as you are the one who has the compassion to think and wonder people will ask you first if you know how people could help should they chose to do so and for that reason perhaps you need to share with your deeper thoughts on what could be done and then what should be done.
Alex
 
I'm not sure what this thread is about. It looks like Jan Ardena has tried to hijack it to spam his usual stuff, but let's try to get it back on track.

I don't see much about "The wise" in the opening or subsequent posts. What's that about?

terako:

Welcome to sciforums.
teroko said:
THE WISE AND GOD

_ Wise, about life… Too much bad things happen…
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Bad things happen in life. Okay.

_ Seems this is a wrong kind of life. Our World seems to be fortuitous. Is not as it was supposed a World and life would be. The things are not as they should be.
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Why does this seem like a wrong kind of life? Also, fortuitous would be good, not bad, wouldn't it?
How do you think things should be?

_ Wise, God created the Universe, how would exist something wrong?
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Good question. One would expect a perfect God to create a perfect universe.

_ God could have own troubles...
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Depends on what kind of god you're talking about, I guess. Also, one god or many, possibly competing, gods?

_ But God would have all power to solve anything... What would be missing to solve the things?
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An omnipotent God would have the power to solve everything, certainly. So the obvious question is: why doesn't he/she/it?

_ Nobody knows God's situation. There's no way to communicate with God. Who knows...
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Lots of religious people will tell you they know all about God. Many will tell you that they communicate with God. Generally, their communications don't seem to provide useful information or result in help, though, so maybe they just think they're communicating, or maybe God doesn't want to help.

_ One thing is true, if there is a God with a creation he must have a way to perceive it, may be through our own eyes and ears.
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I think you probably need to decide what kind of God you're considering. An omniscient God would presumably have lots of ways of perceiving everything, or else just one magical infallible way. A limited God might need remote cameras, I guess.

So God could observe us and may be someone could imagine something useful for God to solve the things. Every thing we could solve here could help God solve something there. May be God could guide our intuition to something...
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That sounds like a round about way to do things, though, don't you think? Why guide our intuition rather than acting directly? Also, what form is that guidance supposed to take?

Just maybe... May be also could be just a matter of time...
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A matter of time until what?
 
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