The Nature of Racism in America

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PhysBang said:
I have bolded that last part to show just where wellwisher falls down in the understanding category. The problem is that white people are, almost all the time, fixating on the needs of white people. Sometimes, they imagine that the needs of white people are the needs of everyone; in some ways, that is worse.
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I might attach a spur to that track: Our neighbor's argument appears to require that ...

• ... an issue bearing disparate negative impacts coinciding with skin color has nothing to do with racism, but ...

• ... any attempt to solve the problem is improper for being racist.​

This is a classic trope of American racism.

So is the bit where they're just making up arguments that have nothing to do with anything in order to, let's say, compare black people to dogs [1↑, 2↑, 3↑], or argue―as the topic poster does―that "the problem with racism is actually black culture"↑ because they have a "culture of violence and crime"↑. The point is not to put up any real argument, but, rather, to say as many stupidly cruel things as one's satisfaction might demand. That's the whole purpose of this thread.

But "Black Panthers" is a scare term among white supremacists; the underlying point is, as Bowser has demonstrated, is to focus on a politicized iteration of the present↑ while rejecting repeated appeals to history as a consideration regarding that iteration, in order to argue↑ that we "we need to look at our present course" because, "Leaning on the past doesn't help the present, and what hurts the issue more is this rhetoric that further divides the community". He is basically asking people to condemn our society to repeating our racist history.

Wellwisher similarly requires we omit history from our considerations of present or future.

I really do wonder about the motives of anyone advocating or relying on ignorance.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
What's to wonder? Good people teach, or at least allow teachers to work. Only bad people attempt to preserve ignorance.
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Plenty, maybe. There are also questions of basic competence.

And, besides, we all have our own opinions. And some of what I have to say about racism is simply beyond the pale. To wit, I believe in civilized society, and due process, and justice; I have no idea how I might justify arbitrarily reminding that there really isn't any appropriate time to line them up in front of the ditch.

That is to say, since we don't actually do that sort of thing° it makes no sense to seek a fleeting illusion of satisfaction that way.
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Notes:

° TURD: It ought to be obvious why we don't actually do such things, but since there are those who will seek a context by which they might read a promise to do that sort of thing, it seems useful to offer the unfortunately requisite disclaimer.
 
Ophiolite said:
If I were American and if I felt the entire political system needed tearing apart then rebuilding, if in short, I felt we needed a revolution, then voting for Trump would be my best chance of getting it.
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Not really. You would have to be ignoring the mainstream Republican, conventional, well-represented, fully institutionalized nature of his views and agenda. You would have to be mistaking unusual vulgarity of expression for unusual substance of the expressed, and assuming a good chance of effective behavior different from anything on evidence.
 
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iceaura said:
Not really. You would have to be ignoring the mainstream Republican, conventional, well-represented, fully institutionalized nature of his views and agenda. You would have to be mistaking unusual vulgarity of expression for unusual substance of the expressed, and assuming a good chance of effective behavior different from anything on evidence.
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And are you assured that no one across the length and bread of the United States of America could not so deceive themselves?

That said, I appear not to have made my point clear. I am envisaging an individual who would have no hope that Trump could remake country, but rather would bring it to the brink of civil war and certainly plunge it into diverse and deep outbreaks of violence and unrest, from which a ground up reconstruction would take place. I thought my use of the word revolution would convey that: I was not employing hyperbole when I used it.
 
wellwisher:

I asked you for specifics and for examples, and you have given me more of the same vague rhetoric.

Got anything substantive?
 
Ophiolite said:
And are you assured that no one across the length and bread of the United States of America could not so deceive themselves?

That said, I appear not to have made my point clear. I am envisaging an individual who would have no hope that Trump could remake country, but rather would bring it to the brink of civil war and certainly plunge it into diverse and deep outbreaks of violence and unrest, from which a ground up reconstruction would take place. I thought my use of the word revolution would convey that: I was not employing hyperbole when I used it.
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Of course various people could deceive themselves so - the illusion that Trump is some kind of directionless destructive entity likely to create chaos is certainly common among Trump's opponents. But that is, I believe, illusion - your comment seemed to describe a person accurately estimating that Trump would be their best chance of tearing apart the US political system. Not an illusion, but motivated and informed choice.

Trump is mainstream, Reaganite, Republican in all but style of expression - and the US is more or less adapted to that. He would as likely create chaos after losing, with some kind of influential and whack media setup, as after winning.
 

LOL

Cucked Virtue Signalling, you gave to love that.

I noticed that they weren't letting Asians through either - even though Asians are a minority. See, all empirical data strongly suggests that Asians have a higher than average IQ (the average set in Europe), so they do well in Government Schools (which is a 12 year gauntlet of standard fact regurgitation). Thus, Asians make up (by far) the largest 'ethnic group' at Berkeley - over 40%.

SO, Asians are now 'White'.

THAT'S the nature of racism in America.


Oh, and a word of advice (to anyone, including those who live in or around Berkeley): If you're an old white Baby Boomer (or an Asian woman) - you're not going to want to go about the down town areas alone (outside of your locked SUV). The real racists, well, they think of Asians as ATM machines. You just go down to Berkeley and smack some money out of them. They don't carry guns, so it's pretty much free money. As for the old Baby Boomers - they cough up money quick enough with a good punch to the face. Hell, Baby Boomers, with all their accumulated wealth and generational bailout wealth - they're becoming target #1 in the USA. But, you might get shot dead. At least according to what I've been told when discussing the topic. Which isn't often, because I don't buy into the whole race thing, and I don't really care. What matters is the individual - and all individuals should be judged as such.

Just something to keep in mind.
 
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Randwolf said:
Here is some more of that article you plagiarized there Sculptor...
!​
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​

Thanks for your efforts.
However:
The point was that not all "laws" under which our freedoms are abrogated are from the legislative body.
Many are regulations created by petty bureaucratic tyrants.
 
sculptor said:
​

Thanks for your efforts.
However:
The point was that not all "laws" under which our freedoms are abrogated are from the legislative body.
Many are regulations created by petty bureaucratic tyrants.
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Thanks for explaining that. I had no idea why you were posting the history of mild attempts to address the issue of racism in hiring and college admissions. Is your view that affirmative action is tyrannical? Even though test scores are inevitably influenced by racial inequalities in education? This is the bigotry of color blind racism. In the guise of "fairness" you seek to make racial inequalities permanent.
 
It was a fair trial, the charges were specific, and not the only ones these people face. They were not in fact freed from jail. They face many other charges.

"A number of those under indictment on the conspiracy charge are also charged with a variety of other counts, some of which incur sentences up to life imprisonment, including possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in federal facilities, use and carry of firearms in relation to a crime of violence, depredation of government property (relating to damaging the site "by means of excavation and the use of heavy equipment"), and theft of government property.In addition, several of those under indictment in Oregon have also been indicted separately for their roles in the 2014 Bundy standoff in Nevada." (wikipedia)
 
spidergoat said:
Thanks for explaining that. ...
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A long forgotten promise of a meritocracy......................................racism is racism!, sexism is sexism! and, I really don't give a damn which race or sex if unfairly favored.
Anything else is dishonesty.
But, it seems that many prefer dishonesty to truth.

Alternately:
Long ago, someone harmed someone else. we don't know who, but we really need to punish someone. So, spidergoat, congratulations, you win. Your punishment will be a lifetime of torture, and you must repeat all lies told to you and swear that they are true.
Never talk about fairness or justice, and always admit your guilt.

............................................
It's simple spidergoat.
If you want to end racism, then stop being a racist.
 
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sculptor said:
A long forgotten promise of a meritocracy......................................racism is racism!, sexism is sexism! and, I really don't give a damn which race or sex if unfairly favored.
Anything else is dishonesty.
But, it seems that many prefer dishonesty to truth.
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You're denying the truth of institutional racial inequality. A black person with lower test scores might actually be smarter than a white person with higher scores who never had to deal with the same issues in their life. A black person might not have the same impressive college recommendations as a white person with powerful connections. Tests can be culturally biased. Perceptions of merit can be biased. Hiring is certainly biased which can be proven scientifically.
 
spidergoat said:
You're denying the truth of institutional racial inequality. A black person with lower test scores might actually be smarter than a white person with higher scores who never had to deal with the same issues in their life. A black person might not have the same impressive college recommendations as a white person with powerful connections. Tests can be culturally biased. Perceptions of merit can be biased. Hiring is certainly biased which can be proven scientifically.
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Welcome to the world of the contemporary conservative; these people are not interested in the honesty of scientific results, their particular brand of racism and pseudo-libertarianism comes first in their evaluative frameworks. They will always evaluate contrary empirical evidence as untrustworthy or they will somehow otherwise refuse to acknowledge it.
 
Mod Hat ― Couldn't see this one coming, could we?

So did we all get our laughs, in the end?

I will go so far as to note I am extraordinarily disappointed.

We allowed a controversial subject its opportunity for discussion, and it turns out the advocates were just in it to say cruel things. Not that we couldn't have seen it coming, but, you know, bigots complain that they are oppressed if they're not allowed to try to harm their neighbors, so, you know, whatever. This thread will remain as a testament to what happens when we try to accommodate antisocial elements within our community. It pretty much makes the point to why we shouldn't be tolerating racism and other terrible behavior to begin with. We'll just throw people out of here next time, and no, the supremacists neither are nor will be allowed to whine. We let them have this explicit chance, and they have proven that there's nothing new about what they're bringing. We won't be wasting our time on such ill-considered ventures again.

Civilized society is not a suicide pact.
 
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