3PO is gay but not R2 he has had sex with the DS a battle droid factory and many many more thingsIn Thumb Wars the propposed that C3PO and R2D2 were homosexual droids, so you're not the first to suggest that.
3PO is gay but not R2 he has had sex with the DS a battle droid factory and many many more thingsIn Thumb Wars the propposed that C3PO and R2D2 were homosexual droids, so you're not the first to suggest that.
A SSD (or even the Eclipse 2, DS3, or a fucking planet for that matter) hit by a subspace rift would be ripped asunder. As those ships have no way of neutralizing such a rift they would have no way of stopping it from wrecking havoc on their fleet or planet. It's a fucking subspace rift... you do realize what that implies right? You DID watch Insurrection, right?
Cleaning droids and research droids are NOT AI. They are automatons. TW, we humans in 2007 have computers of this level. An example of each are iRobot's Roomba and CERN's SP. They are clearly not AI, and neither are any of the droids you refer to.
The late Commander Data and Voyager's EMH are true AIs. Voyager itself in one episode was suggested to be developing AI, since it began healing it's own gel-packs (side point). The closest AIs in SW are C3PO and R2D2 who have demonstrated the ability to make their own decisions and disobey orders in favour of the greater good. At BEST this means that their programmers are skilled in fuzzy logic.
You are incorrect. Cassidy Yates is a Federation citizen. She is NOT however a Starfleet member. Starfleet is the military arm of the Federation. It also assists and can be commandeered by the Federation Science Council and Medical. Other non Starfleet Federation citizens who own their own starships include Dr. Carol Marcus, Sarek and Lwaxana Troi. Dr. Paul Manheim owned his own research station. While it wasn't "canon" that he owned a visible ship that carried him and his team to where he built his stations (one was destroyed), it is a reasonable assumption that they didn't walk or swim there.
Very correct. Starfleet trials do not require a jury, only higher ranking judicial officers. This occurs in present day judicial systems as well. However, a few Trek trials that occur outside of Starfleet included juries (I remember two, one was Wesley's trial, one was Belanna); as I have said, Fleeters must abide by the law of the World in which an event in question took place.
Hmmm, don't seem to remeber seeing any ship ripped asunder by a subspace weapon. Much less a planet in Inssurrection. I remember the Sovereign running form it like a scared rabbit. Then again not surprising as they such fragile designs
However you assertation they would have no way to nullify it is false. Remember a hyperdrive is a dimensional spanning device. In order for smooth operations there are several other stabilzation devices about the ship. To assume that these devices would not be of use is ludicrous.
Of course assuming that any ST race would use them in defense of an occupied planet is also ludicrous.
So sayeth the wise a munificent Enterprise D.
Actually AI is any set of programming that can learn and adapt. While I will admit that cleaning droids are not sentient. One cannot however argue that they are not AI. There is of course a multitude of other droid types, many of which can learn and adapt. Even the the Trade Federation Battle droids are indeed AI's, though not particularly good one.
Actually, Scott, AI is just that. ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. Fine, R2D2 has an AI. He is NOT, however, SENTIENT. He has NEVER shown Emotion of ANY sort outside of what he was BUILT TO DO. Same with C3P0. He shows "emotion" based on the situation to make interfacing with sentient beings easier! Also, Data is a Starfleet Officer. He won't "hide" to avoid punishment. And acting human is no being human. He attempts to BETTER himself. THAT, my friend, is sentience. He attempts to become something more than he was designed to be. He has grown and has felt emotions. Fear, love, desire, lust, pride, joy, dispair, pain. He has felt all those and more. the EMH (Dr. Mozart as he comes to be called) even has his own FAMILY and he CRYS when his daughter dies.
Can't believe you are trying ther logic this way. Watch the movies again and you can see C-3PO and r2-D2 dispaly more self awareness than Data ever has. Hell in the first movie, R2 lies outright. C-3PO attempts to hide for fear of punishment. Data has never displayed that level of sophistication
See Above
Cassidy yates may be a Federation citizen but her starship was operated outside of Federation law. It was obvious that she was operating under some other govermental regulation. Why? Becuase if it was under Federation regulation, Starfeelt would have nailed Sisko's hide to the wall as a co-conspirator when she was caught smuggling weapons.
Uh, no. Sisko is an admiral and a captain if I recall right. He is "captain" of the Defiant and is made "admiral" at some point during DS9. He is a BRILLIANT tacician and is instrumental to Federation plans in the area. He knows Federation law back to front... there are people today that get out of jail free cards for worse things than weapons smuggling just because they know how to manipulate the right people.
Carol Marcus had he own ship, but the was TOS, my beefs were TNG.
Sarek and Luxwana are royalty among their particular race. Of course they had access to ships, but don't think for a moment they were private owned vessels.
Manheim might have had his own research base, but unless you saw a ship he could have been dropped off by Federation Express, which seems to be how all the colonies operate.
Mhm... really? Sarek is NO Royalty- he is an AMBASSADOR. And Luwaxanna is Royaly, yes, but she is also an alien. If you recall, scotto, StarFleet is just that- StarFLEET. MILITARY. There are research and medical fleets as well as personal ships. OBVIOUSLY a single person wouldn't need a "starship" so they get smaller ships. Type 9 shuttlecraft are well equiped for long range inter-planetary travel- if you have ONE person or maybe ONE FAMILY, would you want a 750 meter long STARSHIP or would you rather have a 40 meter long vessel?
Both trials were not Federation trials however. They were plantetary laws that were pbroke and thius by the planets rules.
However like the trial for Data's life. He was obviously not a Federation experiment and he was not being court martialed. He was obviously sentient as they admitted him the starfleet. He had not violated any Starfleet order. Still it was handled as a court martial.
Actually, Data was a VERY special case... he's the first level of advancement of that kind they have seen and they were not sure how o treat it/him.
it would be easy to use a SubSpace Weapon against a SW ship. You simply detonate it on one side and have a remote drone activate it's warp core on the other. The Rift would be drawn to the Warp Field like a zipper (THIS IS CANON FROM TNG)
The SubSpace Rift in Insurrection was at LEAST a thousand times larger than the Ent-E. You know how you can tell? the Warp Core is decently large in and of itself. the Rift, when the core detonated (and it's safe to say that occurs NEAR or IN the rift) was at LEAST a thousand times the size of said core, if not tens of thousands.
That was a small subspace rift... and it was roughly the SIZE of your damned SSD's. Now think what a large one would do. Or how about the String from Generations? Imagine what would happen should your ship pass thru that.
And it's a fucking SUB-SPACE RIFT. Do you understand what that means? Being impacted by that would be like being hit by a string of event horizons while the rest of your ship remains unaffected. The gravitational eddies would shear even a planet apart by simply physical tidal forces!
You want to deny it? Provide PROOF. Proof that I am right is shown in one of the TNG episodes (can't remember it atm) and in Insurrection.
Or better still- Kremlin Chroniton torpedos. Those would SERIOUSLY ruin your day because they aren't even in phase with this reality! Shields or no, they would emerge under your shields and rend your hull as easily (or even easier) than that asteroid impact did! Or did you forget that?
Actually AI is any set of programming that can learn and adapt. While I will admit that cleaning droids are not sentient. One cannot however argue that they are not AI. There is of course a multitude of other droid types, many of which can learn and adapt. Even the the Trade Federation Battle droids are indeed AI's, though not particularly good one.
Actually, Scott, AI is just that. ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. Fine, R2D2 has an AI. He is NOT, however, SENTIENT. He has NEVER shown Emotion of ANY sort outside of what he was BUILT TO DO. Same with C3P0. He shows "emotion" based on the situation to make interfacing with sentient beings easier! Also, Data is a Starfleet Officer. He won't "hide" to avoid punishment. And acting human is no being human. He attempts to BETTER himself. THAT, my friend, is sentience. He attempts to become something more than he was designed to be. He has grown and has felt emotions. Fear, love, desire, lust, pride, joy, dispair, pain. He has felt all those and more. the EMH (Dr. Mozart as he comes to be called) even has his own FAMILY and he CRYS when his daughter dies.
Cassidy yates may be a Federation citizen but her starship was operated outside of Federation law. It was obvious that she was operating under some other govermental regulation. Why? Becuase if it was under Federation regulation, Starfeelt would have nailed Sisko's hide to the wall as a co-conspirator when she was caught smuggling weapons.
Uh, no. Sisko is an admiral and a captain if I recall right. He is "captain" of the Defiant and is made "admiral" at some point during DS9. He is a BRILLIANT tacician and is instrumental to Federation plans in the area. He knows Federation law back to front... there are people today that get out of jail free cards for worse things than weapons smuggling just because they know how to manipulate the right people.
Carol Marcus had he own ship, but the was TOS, my beefs were TNG.
Sarek and Luxwana are royalty among their particular race. Of course they had access to ships, but don't think for a moment they were private owned vessels.
Manheim might have had his own research base, but unless you saw a ship he could have been dropped off by Federation Express, which seems to be how all the colonies operate.
Mhm... really? Sarek is NO Royalty- he is an AMBASSADOR. And Luwaxanna is Royaly, yes, but she is also an alien. If you recall, scotto, StarFleet is just that- StarFLEET. MILITARY. There are research and medical fleets as well as personal ships. OBVIOUSLY a single person wouldn't need a "starship" so they get smaller ships. Type 9 shuttlecraft are well equiped for long range inter-planetary travel- if you have ONE person or maybe ONE FAMILY, would you want a 750 meter long STARSHIP or would you rather have a 40 meter long vessel?
However like the trial for Data's life. He was obviously not a Federation experiment and he was not being court martialed. He was obviously sentient as they admitted him the starfleet. He had not violated any Starfleet order. Still it was handled as a court martial.
Actually, Data was a VERY special case... he's the first level of advancement of that kind they have seen and they were not sure how o treat it/him.
this assuming you have such a tactic set up, that the rift is attracted to the smaller warp core rather than your larger signature, and that you would use said weapon in defense of a planet.
They would be attracted to the strongest warp signature... a standby warp drive signature is NOTHING compared to an active warp drive.
Okay, so you are going to make this argument. From the visuals of the movie the Rift was anywhere fromfive to ten times the length of the Enterprise E and it was not even half as wide. At best this is five times the lenght/width of the vessel, not a thousand times the size
As for the warp core it is 5 meter diameter by 20 meters roughtly. Perhaps as much as 5 meters by 30 meters. A thousand of these would fit in a rectangle 50 meters byt 50 meters by 300 meters at the largest.
Mhm... that's why on screen it was absolutely HUGE (longer than the viewport could show) EVEN THOUGH it was over, what was it? 5 km away? Yeah... it's big.
They said nothing about it being a small subspace rift. Also 3.5 kilometer to 7 kilometers in length is not anywhere near 17-18 kilometers in length and don't get me started on the width.
Mhm? oh really? A SSD is a mere 17.4 km in length. If the rift were even 1 km in length, it would disintegrate at MINIMUM a .5km size gash in the ship the whole way "thru" it. You would thus vent a very large portion of your atmosphere at best, detonate at worst. Assuming a mid-ship or rear ship engine room, it would likely breach your reactor with ease assuming a 7 km rift.
Really and you know this how. They did not say such in the movies. besides it would be no worse than the suddently acceleration to millions of times the speed of light, which the ship does without even groaning.
What part of SUB SPACE do you not get? It is not NORMAL SPACE. PART OF YOUR SHIP (Not all of it) IS NOW NO LONGER IN REALSPACE!
As for tearing part a planet we did not see the rip do that. In fact we have no data on even what it does to a starship.
You have no proof. At no point does a Subspace tear destroy a vessel. Even the one the scientist had made to make her point about warp. The Enterprise was not destroyed and that one was several million miles across.
Actually, there is an episode in TNG where a vessel is destroyed via subspace rift. They were testing the weapon and instead of being attracted to the warp director beacons it followed a Nebula class starship. Max impulse was too slow and the captain of the ship ordered a jump to warp. As soon as the warp field formed and the warp engines went active, the subspace tear damn near instentaniously jumped to the ship, destroying everything in it's path including the ship itself.
Kremin Chroniton torpedoes. They may eeffect ST type shields buyt you have no proof they do so with SW style shields which eveone admits are different.
They do NOT affect ST shields themselves- they simply ignore the fact that they exist. Unless you can defend yourself from a weapon that, quite literally, appears out of another dimension, you are SCREWED! Scott, you just showed how LITTLE you know about Trek. Watch Voyager and learn young larva.
Show me where a starship mechanic is programmed for fear, bravado, worry, compassion, or even frustration. Obviously R2-D2 has gone beyond any level of his programming. Data's emotions however are part of his programming. I admit the EMH doctor is on the same level as C-3PO, mainly becuase they are programmed with some human type responses. But an astromech is not programmed with any type of social skills.
Uh, no. Data started out basicly the same as B4 did in Nemesis. If you remember, he was VERY automatronic in the beginning. He has slowly become VERY human, culminating in him giving his life for his friends in the end. SHOW ME A DROID IN STAR WARS THAT HAS A FRIEND OR A LOVER (yes, Data and Tasha Yar got it on in one episode, remember?)
Sisko was the CO of the station where Yates made frequent trips. As such he would be the person responsible for all secuirity and customs checks and reports on her ship, if she was subject to federation controls. And you can't tell me they don't exist as obviously they do for other vessels. Which means he would assume to be collaborating with her when it is discovered she was smuggling weapons. now if she operatied outside of federation control, as in under another governmental license, he would not be in charge of secuirity and customs regarding that ship. It's simple logic really.
Oh really? So the Federation simply lets random ships in? Even the US Government TODAY doesn't do that- NO SMART COUNTRY DOES! Even if you are operating under another governmental license, you MUST go hru customs. Simple fact, really.
Sarek is the son of T'pau, correct? As in Princess T'pau. As in that would make Sarek royalty. Royalty can be ambassadors. As for you accusations of size. A larger ship mean you have a grander entrance. Even Vulcans are big on ceremony.
They are bigger on logic... and again, he is a STARFLEET ambasador. How the FUCK does that apply to civilian?
They sure knew how to treat him when he applied to the Academy. Obviously only sentients had passed that way before.
You are simply reinforcing my point- they really had no clue WHAT to do with him. Many considered him sentient, others thought he was a tool. In he end, he was deemed sentient. You're precious R2D2 and C3P0 would be seen as non-sentient and broken down for examination.
So sayeth the wise a munificent Enterprise D.
Actually AI is any set of programming that can learn and adapt. While I will admit that cleaning droids are not sentient. One cannot however argue that they are not AI. There is of course a multitude of other droid types, many of which can learn and adapt. Even the the Trade Federation Battle droids are indeed AI's, though not particularly good one.
Can't believe you are trying ther logic this way. Watch the movies again and you can see C-3PO and r2-D2 dispaly more self awareness than Data ever has. Hell in the first movie, R2 lies outright. C-3PO attempts to hide for fear of punishment. Data has never displayed that level of sophistication
Cassidy yates may be a Federation citizen but her starship was operated outside of Federation law. It was obvious that she was operating under some other govermental regulation. Why? Becuase if it was under Federation regulation, Starfeelt would have nailed Sisko's hide to the wall as a co-conspirator when she was caught smuggling weapons.
Carol Marcus had he own ship, but the was TOS, my beefs were TNG.
Sarek and Luxwana are royalty among their particular race. Of course they had access to ships, but don't think for a moment they were private owned vessels.
Manheim might have had his own research base, but unless you saw a ship he could have been dropped off by Federation Express, which seems to be how all the colonies operate.
Both trials were not Federation trials however. They were plantetary laws that were pbroke and thius by the planets rules.
However like the trial for Data's life. He was obviously not a Federation experiment and he was not being court martialed. He was obviously sentient as they admitted him the starfleet. He had not violated any Starfleet order. Still it was handled as a court martial.
Hmmm, don't seem to remeber seeing any ship ripped asunder by a subspace weapon. Much less a planet in Inssurrection. I remember the Sovereign running form it like a scared rabbit. Then again not surprising as they such fragile designs
However you assertation they would have no way to nullify it is false. Remember a hyperdrive is a dimensional spanning device. In order for smooth operations there are several other stabilzation devices about the ship. To assume that these devices would not be of use is ludicrous.
Of course assuming that any ST race would use them in defense of an occupied planet is also ludicrous.
this assuming you have such a tactic set up, that the rift is attracted to the smaller warp core rather than your larger signature, and that you would use said weapon in defense of a planet.
They would be attracted to the strongest warp signature... a standby warp drive signature is NOTHING compared to an active warp drive.
Okay, so you are going to make this argument. From the visuals of the movie the Rift was anywhere from five to ten times the length of the Enterprise E and it was not even half as wide. At best this is five times the lenght/width of the vessel, not a thousand times the size
As for the warp core it is 5 meter diameter by 20 meters roughtly. Perhaps as much as 5 meters by 30 meters. A thousand of these would fit in a rectangle 50 meters byt 50 meters by 300 meters at the largest.
Mhm... that's why on screen it was absolutely HUGE (longer than the viewport could show) EVEN THOUGH it was over, what was it? 5 km away? Yeah... it's big.
They said nothing about it being a small subspace rift. Also 3.5 kilometer to 7 kilometers in length is not anywhere near 17-18 kilometers in length and don't get me started on the width.
Mhm? oh really? A SSD is a mere 17.4 km in length. If the rift were even 1 km in length, it would disintegrate at MINIMUM a .5km size gash in the ship the whole way "thru" it. You would thus vent a very large portion of your atmosphere at best, detonate at worst. Assuming a mid-ship or rear ship engine room, it would likely breach your reactor with ease assuming a 7 km rift.
Really and you know this how. They did not say such in the movies. besides it would be no worse than the suddently acceleration to millions of times the speed of light, which the ship does without even groaning.
What part of SUB SPACE do you not get? It is not NORMAL SPACE. PART OF YOUR SHIP (Not all of it) IS NOW NO LONGER IN REALSPACE!
As for tearing part a planet we did not see the rip do that. In fact we have no data on even what it does to a starship.
You have no proof. At no point does a Subspace tear destroy a vessel. Even the one the scientist had made to make her point about warp. The Enterprise was not destroyed and that one was several million miles across.
Actually, there is an episode in TNG where a vessel is destroyed via subspace rift. They were testing the weapon and instead of being attracted to the warp director beacons it followed a Nebula class starship. Max impulse was too slow and the captain of the ship ordered a jump to warp. As soon as the warp field formed and the warp engines went active, the subspace tear damn near instentaniously jumped to the ship, destroying everything in it's path including the ship itself.
Kremin Chroniton torpedoes. They may effect ST type shields but you have no proof they do so with SW style shields which eveone admits are different.
They do NOT affect ST shields themselves- they simply ignore the fact that they exist. Unless you can defend yourself from a weapon that, quite literally, appears out of another dimension, you are SCREWED! Scott, you just showed how LITTLE you know about Trek. Watch Voyager and learn young larva.
The wise and munificent Enterprise-D who's a living starship that did AI in his degree. They are NOT AI. None of them (drones other than following). C3PO and R2D2 have only shown evidence of fuzzy logic. This does not make them the true neural network that the EMH is built on, or the 'positronic' neural network that is Data's brain.
- R2D2 lying is simply evidence of fuzzy logic...lying is not a function of self awareness or sentience, it is simply false data.
He has been programmed to avoid combat, yes, but not his owners. Why would a droid hide when a fellow droid ran away? As for his programming there are times he moves beyond it. In A New Hope, he is actually angry at R2-D2 and later blames him for his predicament and hopes he fairs no better. If he is not self aware why was he speaking to himself.- C3PO was following a self preservation subroutine, as a diplomatic drone he has been programmed to avoid combat, and his colourful and extensive language database facilitates speech inflections. This is stated by C3PO himself on many an ocassion where he can't keep his flashing LED trap shut.
- May I also point out that automaton construction in Wars is rubbish at best, since C3PO's brain was unable to control the war droid's body he was accidentally attached to in Episode I. So much for intelligence ay TW?
Data has an emotion chip. Data has been genuinely afraid of being shot, angered by the Borg and sorrowful and accepting of dying and sacrificing himself for his friends (the ultimate human sacrifice).
Before his emotion chip, STTNG: The Defector - Data is in command of the USS Sutherland and without his emotion chip, disobeys Picard, yells in frustration at his first officer and saves the day by finding four cloaked Warbirds. Clear signs of advancement. I can quote many episodes where Data shows initiative far beyond a mere automaton, before his emotion chip if you like. It'll be a litany, so I won't do it now.
Absolute rubbish. Captain Sisko made the arrest when he discovered that Cassidy was smuggling weapons. He had much evidence and alibi that he had no clue that smuggling was going on. By your logic every FBI agent should be arrested as co-conspirators to every case they investigate. What is speaking here is your own belief that the Federation is a puppet democracy.
You never specified, and TOS episodes are also canon. If one can privately own a ship in TOS, it is logical that (unless stated otherwise) Federation citizens can own their own ships in the future.
Sarek is not royalty, he's only an ambassador. Lwaxana has ceremonial titles only. Lwaxan's ship is clearly private owned, it is stated that "Lwaxana's ship" has arrived from Betazed on one episode, and Mr. Homm (her butler) is shown piloting.
Further, you cannot say that they were not private owned. Matter of fact it is more reasonable to assume that if you think they're royalty, their ships should be privately owned.
Even further, 'royalty' are STILL Federation citizens. You cannot exclude them from this argument simply because they happen to have pull within their own governments.
True, but you'd think that someone who has money for his own research bases (one was blown up) would have at least one transport. The Memory Alpha Wik stated that the transport was Manheim's but it is a Wik and not really canon, I will have to re-watch the 'sode myself.
Dude, they were not Starfleet trials. Even Kirk when he was put on trial did not have a jury. The best he got was to "face his accusor" which happens in all trials.
However, the Wesley case was on a Federation planet, THUS must be considered a Federation trial...all Federation citizens must comply with the sovereignty laws of a Federation world. (actually this applies even to non Federation worlds).
PS...Even in our current democracy, military trials do not convene a jury. Get over yourself.
It was not a court martial. It was a judiciary hearing. ALL military cases are presided over by the a Judge Advocate General (watch TV a little more) or failing the presence of that officer or a representative of that office, an appropriate tribunal of high ranking officers (Admirals, political officials etc).
There is a big difference between Starfleet trials and Federation trials, even if we've never seen a human citizen trial, we in mere 2007 know that military hearings are much different.