Psychosis ~What is it?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Quantum Quack, Mar 4, 2006.

  1. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    This is rather an insane asylum online....

    We're all trapped anyway in ral life what the hell 's the use???? A book? Rather hell. And only one person's writing the book.
     
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  3. Light Registered Senior Member

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    QQ, I'd like to point out two things, one of which is glaringly obvious about this thread but something which I've seen no one even bother to mention.

    And that's the fact that we are hearing only ONE side of the story. Over and over. And there's no one here who can represent the other side of this (Metakron's) story. And as you well know, there always IS another side!

    And the other is that a decent therapist is NOT a licensed torturer! If they are even half-way serious about their job, they will try to understand the patient and make every effort to help the patient understand himself. I've got a fairly strong suspicion from what's been presented here that the person in question has most likely NEVER seen a true mental health specialist but rather was treated by some ordinary MD with little training in the needed area. And that sort of thing actually does result in simple "drugging" (as has been described) instead of trying to deal with and correct the REAL underlying problem.

    Far too many MDs with take it upon themselves to do this, partly because they have the mistaken belief that they are qualified and many times it's an effort to save the family the cost of true professional treatment.

    Of course I cannot say how accurate those thoughts are in this specific case because we have NOT been presented with any information at all. But keep in mind that there is no doubt that we are only getting one side of the story and that there's a very great likelihood that it's highly biased as well.
     
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  5. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    Ok here's a theory....

    They Found Magnetite in the hippocampus region of the brain in humans. There's also a lot of studies done Showing that Certain Metals Can Have a Horrid Effect on the Mind. IE Alzheimer's.. and the ever Famous "Mad Hatters" that was brought about with the Iron ring that used to be placed in the Top Hats back in the when.. Then The Effect Of Lithium, another metal, and its role in a persons Brain..

    Any how.. so Now they Found this in our brains. This Magnetite that was thought to only be in migration animals... Well there Have also been Studies Done that indicate the Poles have Shifted Before. That could Play a significant Role, I think, in the Mental Health Department a mild Explanation as to Why more "confused States" seem to be happening. More experiences with Psychosis in a wider range of People.. it's Believed that the poles could be under way for another "shift" as well.. so What if this "mental illness" Problem, or Experiences of Psychosis Isn't related some how? There's a LOT to consider in all that.. but I don't know, I thought it was an interesting thought.
     
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  7. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    No shit this is the "metakron" thread. I know this already.

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  8. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    In the IN the beginning we DID Talk about it from a Clinicians Point of view or at least what's been written.. Are you Talking about Meta's problem? Or this whole "Psychosis" in general?
     
  9. Light Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, it did begin that way - which I think was very proper. However, not much was ever said about actual positive aspects of treatment, it was more or less confined to talking about what a psychosis actually is. How it manifests itself, how to recognize it. When is it a genuine psychosis and when can something that appears to be actually NOT be.

    But eventually it became more or less focused on that one particular case. So my response to QQ was in connection with that and I wanted to make it clear that it's not representative of all - or even many - cases.

    QQ question, I believe, was an honest one - how to deal with the problem of treatment by "professionals" and society in general. I just wanted to make sure that neither he nor anyone else developed the impression that what they've been reading IS the way people with mental illness are being dealt with.
     
  10. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    Ahh.. Well Yes True.. I had attempted to Talk about what worked for me, But.. it got slapped Down... but I have found things helpful in the World of Psychiatry. Even Medication.. The most Helpful thing is becoming knowledgeable about studies already Done. Mistakes already Made.... Etc..... and Knowing what options ARE out there. But the thing about the Human Psyche is how "touchy" the subject is... What's Good for one, isn't always so for the others... and Dr.'s Or Psychiatrists are in most cases only around for Prescribing Medications... And that IS a sad fact. you get about 30 tops with a shrink. but the actual one who does the "Psychiatry" in most cases, is the Clinician, or the Counselor. The Talking part of Psychiatry has been "Over" for a long time... More medications are out there.. But In all reality, A Shrink isn't what he/she Used to be in MOST Cases. And That's where I think People get the idea that it's some kind of Conspiracy because the Doctors aren't there in a way that isn't "chemical"... you know? so... It's a Tough Call..
     
  11. Light Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, I do understand exactly what you're saying. And I also would like to see you provide more details - for everyone's benefit - about what helped you personally.

    I'd also like to say that there's a bit of misunderstanding about the "talking" part being over. Yes, once a diagnosis has been made, that can be the trend from that point forward. BUT it's still the responsibility of the patient (or guardian) to push for additional analysis if they feel the diagnosis is not accurate or complete. Many people fail at this point either because they think that cannot change the doctor's mind or are simply too timid to try.

    Regardless of what else has been said here, one MAIN point I keep trying to get across is the responsibility the individual has in all this. A person is not like a car that you just drop off and allow the mechanic to do his best to figure out what the problem is and fix what he thinks is wrong! The individual must keep him/herself involved in the treatment decision-making process. If your doctor refuses that, find one that will work with you - not just for you.
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Light,
    2 things,
    1] I started this thread in an attempt to define what the nature of psychosis is. I am grateful for all the help I had in getting a better understanding of it. I also hope that those with an interest in the field whether patient or carer will benefit from it. However as usual with these types of threads it did degenerate into a war of words and opinion.

    2] Regarding doctors:

    We need to appreciate that most persons when confronting a psychiatrist for the first time do so with utter faith in the doctors abilities to diagnose.

    The doctor is held in high esteem and it is only when there is reason to doubt him or her that another is sought. Given the nature of this type of illness and the immediate lowering of the patients credibility changing doctors is not often considered. The patient isn't believed in the main and the doctor is retained. The patients ability to make decisions is compromised by what is believed to be his mental state.
    Some carers actually do some research and gain a little insight into this condition. They join support organisation such as "The schizophrenia fellowship" [ widespread international support group for family and friends of a sufferer] they do the work in reading all the literature they can find and also consider alternative views etc etc.... the need to be informed when making decisions about someone elses life at this level is critical to a good prognosis.

    They gain a familiarity with the treatment options and how medications seem to effect a person. A lot of carers do this but alas an awful lot don't.

    As already pointed out getting adequate care in the public system is fraught with problems. Doctor rejection immediately places the patient in a difficult position as other doctors are reluctant to pick up on a possibly aggressive patient, preferring the more demure and agreeable to the negatively placed.

    Of course many patients fall between the cracks in the mental health networks.

    However even though the success rate is incredibly small it does exist. There are many success stories out there and certainly enough to support the optimism of the carer and sufferer alike.

    I didn't start this thread in an attempt to find solutions but merely to further understanding of this dreadful term "psychosis"

    I believe however that there is a solution but unfortunately it requires a greater understanding of the true nature of the mind than is currently able to be accepted.

    To me this is my greatest frustration, that I see such a problem that can be solved but can not be because of the belief systems of not only the patient but also the society at large. *see edit

    The solution is actually more crazy [ according to those that can make a difference] than the illness itself and there in lies the problem.

    Edit: actually it comes down to not having the evidence yet that is necessary to support the solution...a work still inprogress.

    Oh well..........
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2006
  13. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    QQ,

    I agree I also See that Society isn't ready to attempt a new understanding or Belief system. I think that it will happen whether society try's to stop it or not... It's just how many people will be "ruined" before that happens?
    To me, there is something out there that IS "greater" then this.. And I think Society shuts it out so much that when this "thing" try's to present itself it's considered "Abnormal".. a Psychosis if you will.. I wonder how much of the "fight" isn't with more with what society says to believe, and what you have experienced....
    It's a state that reminds me of the Element of Fire.. It can do Great good, and Can do great harm Depending on how it is dealt with. Until It is understood a little better, it will be feared because psychosis CAN harm if it's not contained to an extent.... It is something just out of grasp of reality because it is the very opposite of what we have Accepted as "reality"... But to Throw it away? And have it Gone forever?? Imagine if our Ancestors did that with Fire... Where would we be today?
    Psychosis, and states of Psychosis should be respected the way that one would respect a poiseness snake.... a Faith in the self Can help cope with this state of Reality and states of psychosis. We need a Better definition For this "reality" ... A Better Acceptance and Understanding of it... It is a State larger then any Place experienced in the Flesh. Evil lurks just as much as good does.... I wonder if some where in that, in all of that, if there is a sentient being of some kind with it's own Consciousness trying to contact us. But those are my own thoughts... Because like every one else, I have NO idea what it is.... But I know Ignoring it isn't an option, and being consumed by it isn't an option either.
    Society as a whole needs to recognize this "state" into an acceptance that it is there. Instead of fighting about what IS and Isn't "Normal"... I have Found that "mental illnesses" ARE the Majority. More people then not Experience this.. and that how One Deals WITH Those "Illnesses" In society and to other people is what Directs the ignorance... Like a Fire that is out of Control. But humans are barley able to Trust each other, let alone some thing that we can not Physically control.. So

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    We medicate... Legally or not.... With Foods or straight chemicals.. With Strange Rigorous routines or Complete Denial... so.... in my mind... If we could accept the Truths of experience people are talking about, and be there for them WITH OUT Answers.. we might have a better understanding of what could be happening....
     
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Very well said.

    I feel that it is when we prematurely declare that a persons experiences are a state of delusion or psychosis we actually promote a state of delusion and psychosis.

    It is true that persons interpret their experiences or rationalise their experiences in ways that they are trying to find socetal acceptance. Like for instance a persons paranoia about the "CIA", He senses he is being watched and can only rationalise it down to something that others can relate to instead of just leaving the answer open as to who or what is watching him.

    Thus even the patient attempts to close his own mind to possibilities and he does this to try and fit in with what a deluded society thinks is normal.

    However truth is not subject to belief, truth can not be corrupted by belief but truth can be hidden by belief in the form of suppression and denial and prematurely believing we have the answer when we don't.
     
  15. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    That's very well said!
    I still feel an "untapped" manna in it all though.. From experiences of my own, to watching others who have a strange diagnosis.... I have always believed that SOMETHING, probly not the cia, Really Could BE watching them... The Tremors and Fears and the stories I have heard... and the Fact that for 6 months these stories stayed the same more or less.... It was then I realized that these fears were REAL.. They were looking for some one to blame possibly, and if these "things" were still happening to them in the Institution as well, then Of course it would be more likely that the Dr.s who are telling you they Don't exist, Must be in on it some how... It's Heart breaking.. I heard a little 9 year old boy tell me about being taken away from his bed.. perfect case of sleep paralyses... Then the Description of what took him.. to Hear it in Person, too See him tremble and cry... and panic.. It was REAL, whether it "happened" or not this child was suffering from something that took him when he was supposed to be the safest. In his bed, asleep. And in the institution, where he was SUPPOSED to be "safe"... And he wasn't.
    and no one not only couldn't Help him, but told him to "Deal" with it some how.....
    It's a serious thing, Psychosis... and it's effects are very real. it is one of the few things that completely separate us from ANY "safety" net we know.. And Over and over you can reassure them that they are safe.. But you know and they know that They aren't....
    So Chemicals are introduced... You try SO HARD to Help.. and some times that help Fails... and the hardest thing to do, is to let go of the suffering... You have let your self down when you can't help some one.. And "shaking it off" doesn't work.. Its a Moral Delima.... And god knows if you had the Chance to some how help them without harming your self.. but see we aren't there yet.... instead, there is this huge mistrust... It feels like life is against you.. .. and then.. You start to get angry at the person who is making you feel so Helpless... they must be making it up? ... so many things run through your head.. even, "Oh my God, What if this IS really happening?".. but even with that, you are still no help.. so Whats the point? the point Seems to be, in some cases, Dope them Up enough to not hurt any one out side of their "world".............. And we are left of where we started.
     
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    again PHP I am in agreement with you.

    The movie "The sixth sense" actually was a good example of how our fear of the unexplained can be generated by what society believes rather than what society knows. [ which isn't that much btw]

    A little boy trapped in two worlds, being told that he is going insane and terrified that they might be true yet as soon as he manages to take his ability seriously and not an instrument of insanity he achieves his sanity. Doctors and society is telling him his ability to "see" is Bullshit and he must fight it's truth, and in doing so goes quite crazy in his behaviour in trying to deny his truth.

    Even if seeing all those ghosts was a mere figment of his imagination the very least doctors and society can do is accept that it is HIS imagination and therefore His truth. But alas they deny him even that....and offer no method or therapy that could allow him to reconcile with his truth so that he can get on with his life with out this enormous fear of going insane.

    So as i have said in a number of threads societies state of delusion concerning the nature of the mind promotes this duality of belief that a "gifted" person has to deal with. And this is the only aspect that creates the insanity we see in these persons and that is simply their inability to cope with societies denial of the truth and what they believe or know to be the truth.

    This is were a good therapist would work the most. They would concentrate on empowering a person to cope better with the duality of beliefs better, with out ever challenging those beliefs.

    The question is not whether the expereince was true but really how the person copes with that truth.

    By working on the issue of coping with the duality a person can become less fearful and more comfortable with out the high tension that this duality can create. By lowering the tension and the fear, a persons ability to think is improved and as the quality of thought improves so too does the rational of those experiences improve. Eventually the validity of those truths is no loinger an issue that drives the sometmies crazy behaviour.

    The first step is of course not to challenge the truth but to deal with the coping with that "truth".

    Does any of that make sense?
     
  17. PHPlatonica Im over myself now... Registered Senior Member

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    You Said It perfectly.. THAT Was EXACTLY What I was Trying so Hard to Tell Brent... And I Failed Miserably.. and then Just got mad at him. I think what really made me Mad was trying to tell him what I meant and Feeling like He wasn't hearing me... And I didn't know what else to say until I was pissed. It seems like some times People forget that "people" are "people" too...

    This Constant "denial" that happens on all sides of this Issue is pathetic.... And Pointless.... On the one Hand Further Encouraging states of Psychosis Can Make the Psychosis spin out of hand to where the person has no Reality left at all to hold onto, and every thing becomes a paradox... but on the other hand stating it "never happened" is adding insult to injury.. I guess that is why I feel a sense of "relief" when what I have experienced in What I call Psychosis, Becomes reality.. It gives me that "edge" that I need for my self... I can't help but think some thing on the "other side of this" IS getting in some how.. I read some old Tales from long ago legends that talked about "when the Angels lived here" and when God/Gods Sent the demons away... They Swore that through the blood of man they would return again some day..All the tales of Dragons through out the world.. and this "paradox" Place that only "mans" soul can experience, but not the flesh... Could this BE "Psychosis?".. all these stories of Gods and Angels and Demons etc... The Prophets... Is it a Possible that this is our subconscious way to Prepare our selves for what's to come next? there is a lot to it......... See, that's why I Feel it's like "Fire".... how do you use Psychosis to benefit your self? Or better, Humanity? ...
    ON the other Hand, most Great People were Exicuted By their own Fellow man.
     
  18. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    PHP, you're off my advoid list. Sorry for that to begin with... Maybe my bad. And i'm sorry for that. I hope to listen to what you say from now..

    So, what are you guys saying now?

    I'm going to give my replys soon (I have deleted a lot of my previous posts, to shorten the thread a bit. That takes some time though, ya know... But yeah, i'll keep it up in hope we can get some where (with or without me).

    -b
     
  19. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    Here are some opinions:

    In an attempt to explain "Normal", I believe that we could come to an explaination of what is "ab-normal", away from society-- "psychosis". I believe that in an attempt to come to understand what the traits all too common or definitive, that perhaps we can understand how a normal person is, what traits depend on his survival. What he must do in order to act normally.

    I believe this is very important above all.

    Definately, society puts up barriers or "necessities", really, which define how the person must be, and we have to live by that.

    So I think normal to be a descriptor in defining abnormal or psychosis.
     
  20. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    This is a very good point, Duendy. A lot of the time the person being "fixed" wasn't broken in the first place. About the time someone starts lording over a normal person, that normal person's life starts going haywire and so does his mentality.

    Listen very carefully to what it means when one very large human starts slapping another much smaller human around and calling him a "pussy." It means that the very large human has decided to take his aggressions and frustrations out on an easy target. The bully has to tell himself that the easy target has something wrong with him or he can't excuse it to himself. This is also a code word to his friends that they can beat up the "pussy" or the "faggot" with relative impunity. The very condition of being weak is an excuse for them to beat him up.

    Psychosis can be perceived by allegedly normal people as weakness and they can respond the same way. Since they are supposed to show some concern for the person, they pay lip service, but since the condition annoys them, they easily latch on to potentially lethal means to attempt to correct the psychosis, even when the patient becomes visibly worse while under treatment.
     
  21. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Might as well. I don't have anything better to do.

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  22. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    I completely agree...


    I wonder how you consider it. I mean... it is because of a persons "mental image" or "personal philosophy", that they are trying to cover up or somethin'? What is "normal" rather than abnormal in this case,then? Aren't most people like that, they try to self justify their own damn selfs?

    Thank you!... i guess


    Hell u know I was only sayin that the person with the psychos has a problem. That surely they don't like. That it really isn't their fault as much as maybe they would (or wouldn't) like it to be. Psychosis~ What is it?

    (the following is also the continuation of this paragraph I believe)
    Tending to think is great, because your beliefs are incred.
    And surely it is like this with most people... But you know, not all psychosis is like this, (if you can agree with me). I mean, do I have a psychosis? Is my problem solved by saying that it is a pleasure principal?
    How are we to determine the best interests of that person? I'm sorry if you don't like how I reply, qq. I just type. That's all. I don't know much different.
    Let's see how you follow up...

    It is this simple: you are saying that psychosis is a evil terrible force (that the person doesn't undestand well?) While i'm dis-agreeing or sort, in that I hate to say it is "castration", final straw, you have this issue within (that is , of course, all psychosis's), that you can't do shit about, it is destroyed, fin. The end.
    This is because of why?:
    Anyway, if you're able to put upwith me, then I would say you're right, this is psychosis. This is defining "what is psychosis"! I wonder why it can't be easily changed. That sucks ass.
    So I wasn't wrong, we can agree that psychosis is sad and terrible and they aren't all evil. That psychos are actually at fault, like the man who is castrated by the woman. Only women can in this sence be castrated here too

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    Advoid me then dammit!


    So it is an issue within the mind of the psycho" that they can't help, stuff inthe mind they have to deal with, and pleasure comes from the "irrational" relif of this?



    Damn. What would you say about my mental status? (Check the mental health and existentialists: 2 thread. I'm moving further along i just want to know I have this possibility to be sane. And I want to hear it from YOU)



    I believe a lot of people are like this, but not all. I think This addiction is a normal example. But also that it does change over time. Some people have insight into it, and maybe everyone is sort of different here? Blech

    So again you suggest it is totally irrational.... (of course, this doesn't leave your defination destroyed)

    Always? My psychosis then too is that way? If you could only tell me these things!

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    qq.




    Last sentence only: and you suggest again that it is an evil force. Maybe not the person, right, but the force of evil. The force. The addiction. Futility of action, a sence of futility, the low possibility of re-learning the refexes nessary to govern mental / emotional behaviour, and the need to withraw from an addiction all add up to a terrible sence of self and a loss of empowerment and self propriety.
    I disagree 100%. You are simply talking like you know these people are the worst people. You give them no sence of self yourself! You do work for the CIA, eh? [deletes huge laughing face]


    Once again, in this reply as well, it should be read as I said it in the first place! So I dis-agree with you there too!

    I must agree with you sort of. I think the defination will always be a general understanding!

    I do not like your definating psychosis as the person becoming the psychosis. I tend to think differently, as you said there are many general understandings.

    [/QUOTE]
    Precisely.

    Ditto

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  23. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Light, I have soft-peddled the story of what they did, actually. This is the fucking real underlying problem. These people think that if someone is screwed over and has problems with being screwed over, there is something wrong with the person they have screwed over. They actually believe it. I can't deal with them. They have the kind of power that comes from being willing to bend over a small child and cause him every bit of pain that they know how.
     

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