Proof of the existence of God

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jason.Marshall, Jan 16, 2015.

  1. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Indeed - belief in God (or personal deity of choice) has lead peoples of all nations to commit unspeakable crimes... but the same could be said for the belief in just about anything (wealth, power, greed, etc)

    Nobody has a "clean" history... perhaps the closest to peace would be the Buddhism, but even there violence has happened
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

    To me, personally, the idea is to try and be a better person - there is no real expectation of perfection, as that is nigh-impossible due to the human condition.

    It's why my wife and I, while identifying as Christian, incorporate parts of the Wiccan beliefs... including the Wiccan Rede, which is perhaps best summed up by this eight word line: An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will. There are many variations of the 'full' rede, but one of the most commonly accepted interpretations I know of:

     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I agree. Which, IMO, is due to our "decision making (moving) in the direction of greater satisfaction", a natural survival trait in every living thing (and perhaps even inanimate matter). But when combined with our seemingly unlimited ability to imagine "greater satisfaction", this drive has produced grotesque excesses in just about every human activity one can think of.
    Yes, when our desires become obsessive and greater than our needs, bad things tend to happen. A natural balance must be maintained.
    Most people will interpret that as a version of the Golden Rule, but the use of the phrase "Harm None" goes much deeper than interpersonal relationships among humans. It includes our environment as well.

    I find many secular values in Scripture (of all kinds). The "Seven Deadly Sins" and "As You Sow, so Shall You Reap" accurately identify the limitations to which we must hold ourselves, lest we become our own victim of "desire in the direction of greater satisfaction".

    The mathematical explanation can be found in the "Exponential Function".
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
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  5. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Indeed - I think the Dali Lama said it well: "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them."
     
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  7. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    My philosophy of life and model of behavior . . .

    I've always been kind of a pacifist. When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it." - Russell Ziskey
     
  8. river

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    So hit from behind.

    How Honorable. ( sarcasm)
     
  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Then there's no misunderstanding, I'm suggesting that space always exists, and time doesn't need to exist in an empty vacuum because as yet, there is no movement of energy

    Maybe space isn't created. Maybe it's just a field of random material energy, which can only be manifested by God.

    Thanks for the tip, but I'm not concerned with winning or scoring points. I'll leave that to you guys.

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    Let's try another thought exercise. Imagine a world completely without sentience. What would it look like?

    jan.
     
  10. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    Honor places us at a crossroads of peace and dogma. Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the dreamscape via bio-electricity. Who are we? Where on the great circuit will we be aligned?
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    OK, we seem to agree that time is a concurrent result of "change". Time is a Universal "experience". Would you call that sentient?
    That sounds contradictory to me and is in conflict with hard data. If space is not created then how could energy pre-exist in any form, except as a Potential?
    Let me try to visualixe it.
    I call an infinite void a "timeless permittive condition with infinite potential", you call it God. We use different WORDS to define "That which came before reality", that's the difference.
    The BIG difference is that your definition of this timeless condition invokes an intelligent awareness. Bohm's Insight Intelligence. I agree with that also. But then you assert that this timeless pseudo-intelligence is Sentient and Motivated.
    That's where we part ways on this. My definition merely invokes a Mathematical Function.
    No need for ad hominem.
    It depends on the definition of "sentience".
    Mine is:
    Now look at the length of the web addy and see the written mathematical language of a purely logical intelligence, such as the Internet. It gets YOU there doesn't it?

    But where would a motivated God want go? In the direction of "greater satisfaction" or, knowledge ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    As Intelligent Hominids, just one form of the mathematical Expression of Infinite Potential.
    The Implicate and the Explicate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
  13. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    In other words, we are in the midst of a self-aware blossoming of non-locality that will remove the barriers to the infinite itself. We are at a crossroads of synchronicity and desire.
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Humans are, not the Universe. And we can already see the results of human desires on this little ball. The mathematical function will sort it all out, it has infinite wisdom.

    p.s. how about; one plus one equals two, but desires time to complete the function..
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
  15. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    The complexity of the present time seems to demand a redefining of our lives if we are going to survive.
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, we need to pay attention to the maths instead of relying on miracles.
     
  17. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    potential -

    1. latent qualities or abilities that may be developed and lead to future success or usefulness.

    2. the quantity determining the energy of mass in a gravitational field or of charge in an electric field.

    If there happens to be a paint brush, paints, and a canvas lying around, the potential is there to create a painting. But this is achieved when an intelligence is present. The instruments on their own cannot achieve that, no matter how long they are there.

    I call that the sum total of material energy, not God.

    I comprehend God to be pure consciousness, whose nature is pure spirit.

    It's not the condition that possesses intelligent awareness, but the cause that gives rise to the manifestation.
    IOW the manifestation is activated by the presence of God, just as the body is can be said to be alive while the spirit is present.

    I don't get how it does.

    For His pleasure, and for our benefit.

    jan.
     
  18. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you think God is a "He"?
     
  19. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    God can be anything.

    jan.
     
  20. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Except a fictional concept, apparently.
     
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  21. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    It is indeed possible that God is a fictional concept - that's what makes it such a problem to prove either way - we are, after all, talking about an entity that could present him/her/itself as anything... or as nothing. What is to say that presentation is not based on belief?

    That's the great mystery in the end
     
  22. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    He may well be a fictional character for you, but not for me.

    jan.
     
  23. BrianHarwarespecialist We shall Ionize!i Registered Senior Member

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    All is mind and the mind knows only belief...
     

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