Misogyny and the Conservative Tradition

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Tiassa, Jan 12, 2013.

  1. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    Talk to a guy who has been to family court during a divorce about how many rights he has. I know quite few. And, at this point, I'm not cconvinced that men enjoy much privilege at all.

    But hey; some weirdo from the generally liberal Catholic church said something stupid, so it must be the fault of men.
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Or to point a typical conservative's projection reflex in the proper direction: what is it with the perpetual whining and victimhood we keep getting from the conservatives in this matter? It almost seems as if that is the root of their basic hostility toward women - that women are picking on them and abusing them and pushing them around and everybody is on the woman's side.

    Mommy problems? Schoolteacher issues? Absent father syndrome?

    Meanwhile, another example of the sheer unreality of the current "conservative" state of mind:
     
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  5. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    i really couldn't give a damn about what your convinced of. quite frankly your inability to acknowledge reality is your problem not mine. your male and presumably white so there has never been a bad time in history to be you. to complain about your "rights" being attacked while being a part of the single most privilaged group of people just makes you a dick and rather unintelligent one at that. most people at least have the sense to not air out their failings to others.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
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  7. madethesame Banned Banned

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    no one is bad. people are including me are into acting and drama. the fear is relived by acting bully. no one wants to hurt anyone.
    this misogyny being cultural thing i don't approve.
    a thing being cultural means it is productive.
    a frightened person is lazy and hasty ( exceptions : enlightened people ) . this very fear of unknown in people is root cause. the 'fear' is not natural.
    no one can get rid of fear but transcend it. with trascendence, the fear is experienced in detail. so a organism/object becomes conscious of it.
    with detachment comes no need to fight and abuse. the society presses people not to abuse and people get angry with this constant pressure and do what they never wanted to do 'abuse'.
    this cycle continues until one gives up.
    the suffering caused to women is due to fear, inferiority.
    women suffered, so suffered men
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Try South Carolina↱, where prosecutors argue that a man's home is so much his castle that his wife isn't allowed under law to defend herself against domestic violence.

    Conservative family values, you know.
     
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Would someone please explain to me why in hell we wanted to take the South back?
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Pride, sir. Simple pride. No president wants to preside over the dissolution of the Union.

    And, you know, hindsight something something, but it really does seem as if it made sense at the time. I can recall several good reasons for preserving the Union. Well, politically speaking. And it is only hindsight that makes reconciliation and reconstruction seem that much of a mistake.

    But the Palmetto Cruelty is a unique coincidence of phases; everything just sort of comes together in that particular way the same way everything just sort of comes together in another particular way in Kansas. Or Texas. Or Louisiana. Or Iowa, even. Colorado? Idaho, Utah ... and what the hell is up with Arizona?

    I think the worrisome thing is the elements in play, and the question of their relationship to the frequency of certain outcomes.

    Maybe it's time another side of that division in American culture stood up. I mean, we already know how "Middle America" and the Deep South feel slighted by coastal Metropolis. And, yes, when you look at financial and communications and artistic centers from that perspective, yes, it probably seems really, really weird. But as you know California, and I am in the actual evergreen half of the Evergreen State, yes, I think it's fair for us to admit that Middle America, the Deep South, and other such "Family Values Country" look strange to us, and on occasion even downright frightening. Because it really does seem as if some days we could probably all get along about the important mechanical parts of our societal existence except that we keep getting hung up on matters of label and identity. Men and Women, White and Nonwhite, Christian and Everyone Else.

    To which point we might pause to recall that the question of misogyny and the Conservative tradition is a specific component within a larger arrangement of supremacism and the Conservative tradition.

    And there are some days it really does feel like this, as if we can all work toward a better America, except the rest of us just aren't good enough for conservatives. And in this case, Palmetto Values are ... yeah, it's easy to see why you ask the question.
     
  11. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    3,707
    Everybody has rights. Even people whose race and gender irks the social justice warriors. Only a dick would suggest otherwise.

    And family court bias just might be a reality. Why do you assume that every guy dragged through the mud is white and, therefore, is deserving of it? Sounds a bit racist on your part.
     
  12. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    3,707
    Acknowledging that men can also be screwed by "the system" doesn't equate to hostility towards women.
     
  13. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    3,707
    Can you cite a law that states that women in South Carolina can't defend themselves from domestic violence? Because prosecuters, as individuals, are capable of all sorts of idiocy. Just ask those lacrosse players from Duke University...
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    #WhatAboutTheMen? [1↗]

    You know how in comedy they say, "Timing is everything"?

    This one is really quite simple.

    We generally hear more from men on this subject in response to issues pertaining to women. That is to say, we hear about when a man wants to change the subject.

    When men take the time to talk about their own "men's issues" in a context free of this watch-the-birdie sleight of rhetoric, it often turns out to be a disaster. [2↗, 3↗]

    Furthermore, as a matter of timing, I would note that there is another context in which you are, tactically, at least, mistaken; you come out eleven months after the fact with that, and it turns out you're backing a member whose misogyny is so "textbook" he seems like a badly-written joke when he goes off like that. Consider the circumstances of the part of this discussion you just entered in order to drop a #WhatAboutTheMen?

    So while it is true that "Acknowledging that men can also be screwed by 'the system' doesn't equate to hostility towards women", it is also true that #WhatAboutTheMen is a misogynistic response to the issues at hand.
     
  15. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    you just don't get do you. your too arrogant and self serving to even understand how obnoxious you sound. you seriously believe a few things going against the white patriarchy mean you've suffered as much as all the victims of white patriarchy. that fact you come mumbling on about the alleged biased in family court shows just how ignorant and whiny you are.

    the bias in family court is because for decades if a family split a mother lost her kids. its to protect a mother's rights. the reason men get shat on in this is because of how the system systematicly favored them for decades.


    and by the way i'm a white male. its not racism to call out privilage complaining about losing privilage and that's all your really doing. your complaints here about family court and all that is just you trying to distract from the real issues because you need to be a victim. again all your whining in this thread and your assumptions about me are based in your own prejudices. yes everyone has rights. white males aren't being harmed.
    I assumed neither of these things. once again your ignorance and inability to deal with your reality is your damn problem not mine so please quit trying to make your issues about me their yours i suggest you deal with them.
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    36,563
    #WhatAboutTheMen? [1↗]

    You know how in comedy they say, "Timing is everything"?

    This one is really quite simple.

    We generally hear more from men on this subject in response to issues pertaining to women. That is to say, we hear about when a man wants to change the subject.

    When men take the time to talk about their own "men's issues" in a context free of this watch-the-birdie sleight of rhetoric, it often turns out to be a disaster. [2↗, 3↗]

    Furthermore, as a matter of timing, I would note that there is another context in which you are, tactically, at least, mistaken; you come out eleven months after the fact with that, and it turns out you're backing a member whose misogyny is so "textbook" he seems like a badly-written joke when he goes off like that. Consider the circumstances of the part of this discussion you just entered in order to drop a #WhatAboutTheMen?

    So while it is true that "Acknowledging that men can also be screwed by 'the system' doesn't equate to hostility towards women", it is also true that #WhatAboutTheMen is a misogynistic response to the issues at hand.

    So let me get this straight: The State of South Carolina argues in court that this is what the statutes equal, and you're looking for a specific exemption?

    Do you understand that the State of South Carolina is making this argument in order to imprison a domestic violence survivor?

    If the State of South Carolina wishes to separate itself from the people it puts on the front lines, it needs to pull those individuals from the front lines. This is not Prosecutor v. Defendant; it is not police or city or county versus defendant. It is State v. Defendant, and that argument is what the State of South Carolina brought to court.

    Prosecutor Culver Kidd lost his argument in court. That's why he's appealing to a higher court in order to prevent Whitlee Jones from invoking Stand Your Ground as defense against murder charges. And what is the State of South Carolina's argument going forward? That self-defense laws in South Carolina were never intended to apply to domestic violence victims.

    The State of South Carolina is determined to win this point.
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    36,563
    Racism and the Conservative Tradition

    Are you ready?

    Here, a quick juxtaposition:

    Voting Rights | White Supremacism

    Try another one:

    Equal Rights | White Supremacism

    Why would I be asking you to consider such strange pairings?

    Nondiscrimination | White Supremacism

    No, seriously, doesn't that sound absurd?

    What happens if we put an equal sign in there?

    Woman Suffrage = White Supremacism

    Ah, now we see the problem. Why did I change and start talking about women?

    I didn't. Change, that is. It's all the same issue, according to Republicans.

    TPM LiveWire summarized the issue in three paragraphs:

    While defending his decision to speak at an even for a while nationalist group in 2002, Scalise explained that he had a policy of speaking to all groups at the time regardless of political views.

    Scalise said he spoke at a League of Women Voters event and described the organization as "a pretty liberal group."

    But the League of Women Voters took issue with Scalise's description.

    "Representative Steve Scalise's recent comments regarding the League of Women Voters were misinformed. We are committed to working for all voters regardless of their party affiliation," LWV President Elisabeth MacNamara, said in a Tuesday statement. "We believe voters are the basis of our strong democracy, and we're committed to making our government work for all citizens. We will continue to fight for inclusion and tolerance and are committed to Making Democracy Work®."


    (MacNeal↱)

    The full statement by the League of Women Voters↱:

    "For nearly 95 years, the League of Women Voters has fought to educate and engage Americans on the issues impacting their communities. Rooted in the suffrage movement, the League has always been committed to educating and turning out voters.

    "In order to expand participation and give voice to all Americans, our nearly 800 state and local Leagues register voters at every opportunity, including in high schools, at community colleges, bus stops and baseball games, as well as at naturalization ceremonies. In addition to registering new voters, we work to educate voters on important issues in their communities, in part by hosting candidate debates and issue forums as well as publishing voters' guides in advance of elections.

    "Representative Steve Scalise's recent comments regarding the League of Women Voters were misinformed. We are committed to working for all voters regardless of their party affiliation. We believe voters are the basis of our strong democracy, and we're committed to making our government work for all citizens. We will continue to fight for inclusion and tolerance and are committed to Making Democracy Work®."

    The issue has opened up a flood of criticism about the GOP's willingness to accommodate and even encourage bigotry. However it really is worth taking a moment to appreciate the other side of that: Politically, civically, morally—is woman suffrage the equivalent of white supremacism?

    Was a time when such a question would seem absurd, but by the standards of American political discourse, it seems to pass the test in order to be on the table.

    I mean, we get the part about saying something desperate in order to cover for the racism. But it is also significant to note what Scalise chose. At least David Duke himself had the good taste to stick to his issue, explaining↱, "Even Republicans go to NAACP meetings, even though they may have disagreements with that group."

    Come on, that one, at least, is expected. David Duke trying to compare his bigoted efforts to civil rights activism? Duh. File under obvious.

    But woman suffrage?

    Really?

    And House Republicans are just fine with all of it.

    At some point, yes, it becomes significant.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    MacNeal, Caitlin. "League Of Women Voters Not Happy Scalise Compared Them To White Nationalists". Talking Points Memo Livewire. 30 December 2014. TalkingPointsMemo.com. 8 January 2015. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/league-women-voters-scalise

    League of Women Voters. "League of Women Voters of the United States Responds to Comments by Rep. Scalise". 30 December 2014. LWV.org. 8 January 2015. http://lwv.org/press-releases/league-women-voters-united-states-responds-comments-rep-scalise

    Reilly, Molly, Amanda Terkel, and Matt Sledge. "Majority Whip Steve Scalise Struggles To Distance Himself From David Duke". The Huffington Post. 29 December 2014. HuffingtonPost.com. 8 January 2015. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/29/steve-scalise-david-duke_n_6392910.html
     
  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    36,563
    The Conservative Obsession

    It's getting to the point that "Republican" is the sort of attribute that earns one a place on the List of People Who Shouldn't Be Allowed Around Children:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    That is to say: Why are Republicans so determined to redeem rape?

    It's almost like a Sword in the Stone for Republicans, like some sort of ritual tug, a question springing eternal hope: Can I be the one who finally does it? Can I be the one who makes rape into a good thing?

    Republican voters keep sending these people to office. This sick obsession would appear to reflect a genuine conservative belief.

    And for that reason alone, American political conservatives really shouldn't be allowed anywhere near children.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Gutman, David. "Obviously rape is awful". Twitter. 5 February 2015. Twitter.com. 10 February 2015. https://twitter.com/davidlgutman/status/563487694471593984
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    23,677
    It glorifies and excuses rape.

    Which is nothing unusual from that quarter of the political divide. He is not the first to have expressed repulsive sentiments on this subject matter and he will not be the last.
     
  20. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    1,519
    It does nothing of the sort. It protects the innocent baby, thereby reducing the number of victims from two to one.
     
  21. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, let us all "protect the innocent baby". F**k the mother, she is only a vessel for bringing forth those innocents, right? (was that a double entendre there?)
     
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  22. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    its not a baby that you call it such is only a expression of your political ideology. its a zygote or fetus. and neither of those have rights.
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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