million, billion, trillion... then what?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by qfrontier, Aug 14, 2002.

  1. Phrenetic :D Registered Senior Member

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    whoa
     
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  3. Visitor Registered Member

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    I remember an estimate for the number of protons in the universe being 10^72. Seems kinda small, and I not sure why they counted only protons, but assume 100% of atoms are hygrogen and you have more than a gazillion atoms.
     
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  5. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, somewhat confusing if a mole is 6.02x10^23.
     
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  7. Visitor Registered Member

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    how big of a pile would you have with (10^49)/6 moles?
     
  8. Mal495 Registered Member

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    What about Zillion?:bugeye:
     
  9. Visitor Registered Member

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    WRONG!
    The answer is not zillion, it's gazillion!

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  10. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    Depends on what substance you have, and how it's packed.
     
  11. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    You guys still didn't answer the first question...

    Posted by qfrontier:
    I think his point is that there is no limit. Or he is asking if there IS a limit...
     
  12. Phrenetic :D Registered Senior Member

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    the universe? i dunno =p
     
  13. E. Piphany Registered Member

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    Awwww, comeon Guys!

    We ALL know that the very next number is whole damm bunch. . . . That comes right before a buttload. . . . BTW, buttload must be a unit of measure, cause a butt is equivalent to 2 hoggsheads, and a hoggshead is about 540 gallons, approximately 8 pounds per gallon, so a buttload is about 8,640 pounds. . . . . Right?

    Therefore , a CUBIC buttload would be. . . . . . . lets see, carry the ....... divided by....... times pi....... AHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It's a Shiite Load!

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    :m:
     
  14. sinologist Registered Member

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    numbers from an ancient chinese book

    The Chinese have some big numbers too:

    Normal Use:
    ¸U 1,0000 wan (ten thousand)
    »õ 1,0000,0000 yi (100 million)
    ¥ü 1,0000,0000,0000 zhao (1 trillion U.S.)

    Then seldomly used:
    ¨Ê 1,0000,0000,0000,0000 jing (10 quadrillion)
    «² 1,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000 gai (100 quintillion)
    Òñ 1,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000 zi (1 septillion)

    But historically, they counted differently. An ancient Chinese book accounts as follows:
    1 zhao = 100 million yi (100 million x 100 million = 10 quadrillion)
    1 jing = 100 million zhao (100 million x 10 quadrillion = 1 septillion)
    1 gai = 100 million jing (100 million x 1 septillion = 100 nonillion)
    1 zi = 100 million gai (100 million x 100 nonillion = 10 duodecillion)

    Since you can increase a number by multiples just by putting a number in front of it (1 wan wan wan = 1 wan yi = 1 zhao), it would have been possible for the ancient Chinese to say the following numbers:
    1 yi zi (10^48)
    1 zhao zi (10^56)
    1 jing zi (10^64)
    1 gai zi (10^72)
    1 zi zi (10^80)
     
  15. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Huuummmm... your name makes sense "sinologist"...

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  16. qfrontier Captain Of Starship Registered Senior Member

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    Hmm wat if the universe was made of lets see hypothetically 10^1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 quarks. Will that be the limit for numbers?
     
  17. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Setting up limitations for the universe...? I don't think that is possible...

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    Besides, the number you posted might be even too big, who knows... That's pretty big...

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    :m:
     
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    qfrontier:

    No.
     
  19. ycutie6 Registered Member

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    how would you read 6.022 x 10 to the 23rd?? like if it wasn't in scientific notation? PLEASE help. millions?? trillions??
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Divide the zeroes into groups of threes, as we do typographically with commas. The first group is a thousand. The second is a million. From then on they take the Latin prefixes for two (billion), three (trillion), four (quadrillion) etc. Yes it gets ugly. 10 to the 39 is a duodecillion. I suppose 10 to the 303 is a centillion.

    10 to the 23rd is 100 followed by 7 groups of three zeros:

    100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

    So the number in question is:

    602,200,000,000,000,000,000,000

    That would be read:

    Six hundred two sextillion, two hundred quintillion.

    By the way, as I may have warned earlier, this is the American system. In Europe they count off groups of six zeroes, not three. Their millions and billions can run into the thousands, not just into the hundreds. They would read this number as:

    Six hundred two thousand two hundred trillion.

    The entire phrase "six hundred two thousand two hundred" is a multiplier of "trillion." A European trillion is 10 to the 18, not 10 to the 12 as in America. We make the sacrifice of running out of pronounceable names for the exponents much earlier, in return for not having potential 12-syllable coefficients in which to get lost.

    If you find that confusing, be glad you're not studying in China. They count off the zeroes in groups of four. Their civilization is so old that their language has a one-syllable word for ten thousand: qian.
     
  21. curioucity Unbelievable and odd Registered Senior Member

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    Uh yeah..... there's some problem about this I read a long time ago. Between English and American numeric standard, one increase its naming (like from bi to tri) by a factor of 1,000,000, while the other increase it by the factor of only 1,000 (the later must be the American standard judging from the posts here).
     
  22. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    In Germany and most non-Anglophone nations, 1,000,000,000 is called "one milliard"; 1,000,000,000,000,000 is "one billiard," etc. I guess if you walk into a bar in Germany and offer to play a game of "billiards," it could take quite a while.

    England does not use this terminology, to them 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 is simply "one thousand trillion". (See below for their problem with the word "billion," which is why I didn't use billion in this example.)

    It appears that both the "American" system and the "European" system were invented in France at about the same time, a few hundred years ago. It's sobering to realize that before then, no one really needed to be able to count to 10**9. (Sorry, I still use Cobol notation.)

    What we call the "American" system (billion = million x 1000) is now in use in North America, Holland, and France. What we call the "European" system (billion = million x 1,000,000) is used in all other countries.

    With one exception. Because of the influence of the American financial press, the British press now calls 1,000,000,000 "one billion," instead of "one thousand million." But they have not changed their names for the rest of the powers of ten. Once again, the Brits blaze their own trail and it's a lot more crooked and bumpy than anyone else's! Still, wouldn't it be awkward to call George Soros a "billiardaire" or a "thousand-millionaire."

    Here are some websites on the subject:

    unc.edu/~rowlett/units/large.html

    mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/52579.html

    antimoon.com
     
  23. sweet Pentax Registered Senior Member

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    920
    I guess if you walk into a bar in Germany and offer to play a game of "billiards," it could take quite a while.

    haha , no !
    the name of the game is "billiard" , the number is called "billiarde" ( the "e" makes a huge difference )

    ps : sorry , OT

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