Malaysia imposes dress code for non-muslims, THE FRENCH WAY

[everneo]

Originally Posted by Proud_Muslim
I disagree, women who dress revealing dress are more likely to face unwanted looks and in some cases sexual assults.


It's not a matter of your personal butt-headed opinion it's a matter of evidence. There is no evidence linking how a woman dresses to sexual assault. Most women are not raped upon some spontaneous lustful urge but by someone they know in a premeditated fashion.

Raithere :

while i agree that most women are not raped upon some spontaneous lustful urge but by someone they know in a premeditated fashion, there is another view to these revealations.

In a liberal society, where sex is not a taboo and in abundance, revealing dress won't pose a 'big danger' to the revealer. When some guy suggesting her to come with him for a fun time she certainly won't take a big offence even if she is not willing to go with him. He probably shrug and trun to other such skimpies. That is all expected.

In a not so liberal society, if the guy so happened to be a wood-headed egotist and this revealing beauty rejecting his suggestions for some reason, is there any gurantee that this fool won't act violently when combined with lust and offended ego.?

And do you think all the rapes are reported when some habitual revealers get raped.?

 

[everneo]

a quick point for the moslem tards....if you live in foreign countries, it is ok to abide by the rules of that particular place.

allah understands. allah will not strike you down

Sheikh Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi, the Grand Mufti of the al-Azhar mosque in Cairo and the foremost authority in Sunni Islam, said France had the right to pass a law banning all "conspicuous" religious symbols in state schools and institutions.

But, he added, that obligation only applied "if the woman lives in a Muslim country". He quoted verses from the Koran stipulating that any Muslim who conforms to the laws of a non-Muslim country need not fear divine punishment.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...arf31.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=28831

A sane voice like that of the good old mufti is often ignored whether it takes authority from Quran or not. Most of the problems of muslims are created by half-baked mullahs who have the full support of guys like our friend PM alias PS.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

It's not a matter of your personal butt-headed opinion it's a matter of evidence. There is no evidence linking how a woman dresses to sexual assault. Most women are not raped upon some spontaneous lustful urge but by someone they know in a premeditated fashion.

Indeed, it is a matter of EVIDENCE, and here is my EVIDENCE:

Paul Harvey, A noted Newspaper columnists, cited that alarming coincidence of crime statistics and short skirts.
FBI crime files reveal the forcible rape shot upward almost in proportion to the rise of the hemline, the consensus of law enforcment officers in 50 states agreed that there is a CORRELATION between the MINISKIRT and sex crimes.

Of the law enforcement officers who responsed to the question: ' does the short skirt invite sex crimes ? 91 % answered in the affirmative. This view was summed up by the Juvenile divison commnader of one large city who said: '' Some sex crimes are committed by individuals aroused by their sensory perception and short dresses of some girls could provoke such an attack''.

A newspaper article from Toronto,Canada, confirms that Canadian police agree with the U.S. report: '' 91% of Toronto policemen think a woman in revealing MINISKIRT is more likely to be a raped victim than is her more modest sister, a spokeman from the Toronto police said.

Since 1964, the year the mini skirt was introduced to the female fashion market, RAPE have increased by 68% in the U.S. and by 90% in England, said the Police Officers, a Police Publication.

'' Abbreviated Coustumes are no doubt a factor in offences against women, said Sgt.George Gough of Toronto's morality squad.
'' When a girl in a short skirt is followed by a man after she gets off a street car at night, there isn't much doubt as to who atrracted her assailant''.

Dr.Luchenstein, Physician at Tombs prison in New York city, worked with 170,000 prisoners over a 12 years period, he said: '' The so called crimes of passion are increasing alarmingly and will continue to do so until the principal cause is eliminated, this, it seems to be, is the present style of dress, which to say the least, is IMMODEST.
Immodest dress has a direct bearing on crime incitation, no matter how innocent the wearer may be''.

http://www.nisbett.com/leavening/creeping/cc02.htm


And in thoughtful article called WHY MEN RAPE published in The Sciences,
a magazine published bimonthly by the New York Academy of Sciences by Randy Thornhill, Craig T. Palmer.....I quote:

''Young women also need a new kind of education. For example, in today's rape-prevention handbooks, women are often told that sexual attractiveness does not influence rapists. That is emphatically not true. Because a woman is considered most attractive when her fertility is at its peak, from her mid-teens through her twenties, tactics that focus on protecting women in those age groups will be most effective in reducing the overall frequency of rape.

Young women should be informed that, during the evolution of human sexuality, the existence of female choice has favored men who are quickly aroused by signals of a female's willingness to grant sexual access. Furthermore, women need to realize that, because selection favored males who had many mates, men tend to read signals of acceptance into a woman's actions even when no such signals are intended.

IN SPITE OF PROTESTATIONS TO THE CONTRARY, women should also be advised that the way they dress can put them at risk.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2379/1_40/59024294/p8/article.jhtml?term=

You are insistent upon proving that you're completely and utterly ignorant, aren't you? Rape isn't about LUST, it's about DOMINATION and HUMILIATION. I suggest you try doing a bit of research into the psychology and facts regarding rape. You clearly know shit about it.

Rape is not only about domination and humiliation, this is the kind of BS they put in your corrupt minds, look above for why men rape...it seems, you guys have no clue what the hell rape is.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

A sane voice like that of the good old mufti is often ignored whether it takes authority from Quran or not. Most of the problems of muslims are created by half-baked mullahs who have the full support of guys like our friend PM alias PS.

It disgusts me this WESTERN SELF-RIGHTOUS ATTITUDE, you guys are sick with this self-rightous attitude disease, your societies are SICK and you want to preach on us, just have a look at this to see who are the TOP 20 COUNTRIES IN RAPE, ALL ARE NON-MUSLIMS:

Country Description Amount
1. United States 89,110 (1999)
2. South Africa 53,008 (2000)
3. Canada 24,049 (2000)
4. Australia 15,630 (2000)
5. India 15,468 (1999)
6. Mexico 13,061 (2000)
7. United Kingdom 8,593 (2000)
8. France 8,458 (2000)
9. Germany 7,499 (2000)
10. Russia 6,978 (2000)
11. Korea, South 6,139 (2000)
12. Spain 5,664 (2000)
13. Zimbabwe 5,567 (2000)
14. Thailand 4,020 (2000)
15. Venezuela 2,931 (2000)
16. Poland 2,399 (2000)
17. Italy 2,336 (2000)
18. Japan 2,260 (2000)
19. Colombia 1861 (2000)
20. Netherlands 1648 (2000)

Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Xev,
Is it not nice to think that women are so powerful that a little bit of skin renders males incapable of controlling themselves. That would make them the weaker sex since we do not jump on them if we see their pects or what ever. Considering the quality of males seen on beaches women should be requiring them to cover up as neighborhood beautificaton project. Muslim males are the worst.

Muslim males are not the worst, this is UTTER BULLSHIT:

check these statistics SWEETIE:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Studies on this? Most rape victims in the US knew the perpetrator before he commited the rape. So it seems that in most cases there is something more pathological going on here.

you want studies on this ? Sure, my pleasure, I already posted them to one of the members here, but I will post them again;

[repeat post deleted by moderator]

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Do you have any evidence for that? Or just a prejudice?

No James, I have firm well documented evidence, I posted it already twice here in this thread , please scroll up and read it.

Nobody generates lust. People lust after others according to their own whim. If they can't control their actions, that's their fault, not the fault of the person they are lusting after.

This is not true, if you are HUNGRY, very very HUNGRY, and you saw a table full of delicious food, will not eat ?????????????????

You have some really screwy ideas about women. They aren't the source of all evil, you know. Men who seek that source should look at little closer to home.

Please James, you dont know what I think about women, I am great supporter of women rights, but when it comes to dress code, there is no way you are going to tell me that a woman who dress revealing cloth should be taken seriously, OTHERWISE WHY WOMEN DRESS DIFFERENT DRESS WHEN THEY GO TO WORK INTERVIEWS AND WHEN THEY GO TO NIGHT CLUBS ???????????????

Maybe it's time for men who can't control their sexual urges to have themselves neutered. What do you think?

I agree, but this has to be leveled by neuterlizing the women who dress like bitches as well.

 

[everneo]

Originally Posted by everneo
A sane voice like that of the good old mufti is often ignored whether it takes authority from Quran or not. Most of the problems of muslims are created by half-baked mullahs who have the full support of guys like our friend PM alias PS.

It disgusts me this WESTERN SELF-RIGHTOUS ATTITUDE, you guys are sick, your societies are SICK and you want to preach on us, just have a look at this to see who are the TOP 20 COUNTRIES IN RAPE, ALL ARE NON-MUSLIMS:

How come 'rape' figure in my post you quoted.? without reading properly you call everyone sick and that is the real sickness.

Its not my self-rightious attitude, it is from a learned quran scholar, Sheikh Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi, the Grand Mufti of the al-Azhar mosque in Cairo and the foremost authority in Sunni Islam.

read again spookz's quote & my post :

"But, he added, that obligation only applied "if the woman lives in a Muslim country". He quoted verses from the Koran stipulating that any Muslim who conforms to the laws of a non-Muslim country need not fear divine punishment."

If you don't agree with what Quran says then don't have any illusion that you are shield of Islam and call others sick. You should realize that you are putting Islam in bad light.

 

[everneo]

This is not true, if you are HUNGRY, very very HUNGRY, and you saw a table full of delicious food, will not eat ?????????????????

the food won't say you have raped it. equating hunger with lust and madness of false-ego is really sick, you see that.?

 

[James R]

Proud_Muslim:

Is that the best you can do in support of your claim?

Paul Harvey, A noted Newspaper columnists, cited that alarming coincidence of crime statistics and short skirts.
FBI crime files reveal the forcible rape shot upward almost in proportion to the rise of the hemline, the consensus of law enforcment officers in 50 states agreed that there is a CORRELATION between the MINISKIRT and sex crimes.

Note the lack of specifics. Dates, references to specific people or files etc. Even which newpaper Paul Harvey is a columnist for.

Of the law enforcement officers who responsed to the question: ' does the short skirt invite sex crimes ? 91 % answered in the affirmative.

Anecdotes don't make facts.

A newspaper article from Toronto,Canada, confirms that Canadian police agree with the U.S. report: '' 91% of Toronto policemen think a woman in revealing MINISKIRT is more likely to be a raped victim than is her more modest sister, a spokeman from the Toronto police said.

And again.

Since 1964, the year the mini skirt was introduced to the female fashion market, RAPE have increased by 68% in the U.S. and by 90% in England, said the Police Officers, a Police Publication.

Is that a real publication?

Actually, a much more likely cause of increased rape in the statistics over that period is simply that rapes have become more likely to be <b>reported</b>. The stigma attached to rape victims in the 50s and early 60s made it very unlikely that a rape would be reported. Things are different now, except (you guessed it) in Muslim countries.

'' Abbreviated Coustumes are no doubt a factor in offences against women, said Sgt.George Gough of Toronto's morality squad.

Morality squad? I find that hard to believe.

'' When a girl in a short skirt is followed by a man after she gets off a street car at night, there isn't much doubt as to who atrracted her assailant''.

That's certainly true, but what of it?

Dr.Luchenstein, Physician at Tombs prison in New York city, worked with 170,000 prisoners over a 12 years period, he said: '' The so called crimes of passion are increasing alarmingly and will continue to do so until the principal cause is eliminated, this, it seems to be, is the present style of dress, which to say the least, is IMMODEST.
Immodest dress has a direct bearing on crime incitation, no matter how innocent the wearer may be''.

Another anecdote.

And in thoughtful article called WHY MEN RAPE published in The Sciences,
a magazine published bimonthly by the New York Academy of Sciences by Randy Thornhill, Craig T. Palmer.....I quote:

''Young women also need a new kind of education. For example, in today's rape-prevention handbooks, women are often told that sexual attractiveness does not influence rapists. That is emphatically not true. Because a woman is considered most attractive when her fertility is at its peak, from her mid-teens through her twenties, tactics that focus on protecting women in those age groups will be most effective in reducing the overall frequency of rape.

And yet, rapes occur against women who are past menopause.

Young women should be informed that, during the evolution of human sexuality, the existence of female choice has favored men who are quickly aroused by signals of a female's willingness to grant sexual access.

How? Where's the evidence?

Furthermore, women need to realize that, because selection favored males who had many mates, men tend to read signals of acceptance into a woman's actions even when no such signals are intended.

Evidence?

IN SPITE OF PROTESTATIONS TO THE CONTRARY, women should also be advised that the way they dress can put them at risk.

Well, yes. But it doesn't cause rapes.

Rape is not only about domination and humiliation, this is the kind of BS they put in your corrupt minds, look above for why men rape...it seems, you guys have no clue what the hell rape is.

You're in a minority of one here, o knowledgeable one.

It disgusts me this WESTERN SELF-RIGHTOUS ATTITUDE, you guys are sick with this self-rightous attitude disease, your societies are SICK and you want to preach on us, just have a look at this to see who are the TOP 20 COUNTRIES IN RAPE, ALL ARE NON-MUSLIMS:

blah blah blah

How to lie with statistics, no.243.

I've already explained this one. How many women in Muslim countries admit to being raped? They're as likely to be stoned to death by their husbands or fathers as they are to be taken seriously by the police and have their assailants brought to justice. And even if by some fluke that does happen, they still have to carry the stigma attached by the Musllim faith to such victims. They have to put up with people like you claiming it is their fault, and not the fault of their attackers.

Is it any wonder that Muslim women don't report being raped?

 

[James R]

PS

WHY WOMEN DRESS DIFFERENT DRESS WHEN THEY GO TO WORK INTERVIEWS AND WHEN THEY GO TO NIGHT CLUBS ???????????????

Why do men dress differently when they go swimming from when they go to work?

 

[Proud_Muslim]

the food won't say you have raped it. equating hunger with lust and madness of false-ego is really sick, you see that.?

LUST can be for many things, lust for power, lust for money, lust for women and lust for sex and lust for food.

Perhaps a quick look at the difinition of LUST will help you:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Lust

 

[everneo]

we are talking about lust for sex.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Proud_Muslim:
Is that the best you can do in support of your claim?

No matter what evidence I give, it will be still rubbished by you guys, so many years of indoctrination and propaganda is hard to change in view TRUTHFUL LINES, I am sure about that.

Note the lack of specifics. Dates, references to specific people or files etc. Even which newpaper Paul Harvey is a columnist for.

Perhaps, writing to him and asking him about his findings will be great adventure James, what do you think ?

http://www.paulharvey.com/

Anecdotes don't make facts.

Anecdotes according to who ? according to you ??

Is that a real publication?

No, it is publication from Mars !

Actually, a much more likely cause of increased rape in the statistics over that period is simply that rapes have become more likely to be <b>reported</b>. The stigma attached to rape victims in the 50s and early 60s made it very unlikely that a rape would be reported. Things are different now, except (you guessed it) in Muslim countries.

And that is why the top 20 countries in the world regarding rape crimes are all NON-MUSLIMS !!!!!

Map & Graph: Crime: Top 100 Rapes

Country Description Amount
1. United States 89,110 (1999)
2. South Africa 53,008 (2000)
3. Canada 24,049 (2000)
4. Australia 15,630 (2000)
5. India 15,468 (1999)
6. Mexico 13,061 (2000)
7. United Kingdom 8,593 (2000)
8. France 8,458 (2000)
9. Germany 7,499 (2000)
10. Russia 6,978 (2000)
11. Korea, South 6,139 (2000)
12. Spain 5,664 (2000)
13. Zimbabwe 5,567 (2000)
14. Thailand 4,020 (2000)
15. Venezuela 2,931 (2000)
16. Poland 2,399 (2000)
17. Italy 2,336 (2000)
18. Japan 2,260 (2000)
19. Colombia 1861 (2000)
20. Netherlands 1648 (2000)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap

Morality squad? I find that hard to believe.

Just google TORONTO MORALITY SQUAD and you will see a very humble apple pie waiting for you .

Evidence?

If you bother yourself to read the whole article from http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2379/1_40/59024294/p8/article.jhtml?term= you will find the evidence.

Well, yes. But it doesn't cause rapes.

I did not know you suddenly become an expert on rape !! hmmm very interesting.

You're in a minority of one here, o knowledgeable one.

Being the only Muslim here does not mean I am wrong.

How to lie with statistics, no.243.

Excuse me !! I did not lie sir, I posted the statistics with the link..go check it.

I've already explained this one. How many women in Muslim countries admit to being raped? They're as likely to be stoned to death by their husbands or fathers as they are to be taken seriously by the police and have their assailants brought to justice.

Well, Rape does occur in the muslim countries but far much more less than yours. we dont have hedonistic life style nor do we have women who expose themselfs to animalistic men like the case in the west.

Stoned to death !! it seems you are watching so much FOX JEWS AND THE CNN !!!

And even if by some fluke that does happen, they still have to carry the stigma attached by the Musllim faith to such victims. They have to put up with people like you claiming it is their fault, and not the fault of their attackers.

You see, you guys are BRAIN WASHED by biased pathetic zionist-controled media, who said we balme the raped woman and not the rapist??? I know, the CNN and FOX JEWS !! Right ?

 

[Proud_Muslim]

we are talking about lust for sex.

God !! did you not read the definition my dear friend ?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Lust

 

[Proud_Muslim]

Oh lordy, where to begin.

PM an unwanted look is not the same as a sexual assault. While that unwanted look can be as bad as the woman feeling extremelly uncomfortable and almost naked as the man 'perves' on her, it's not exactly the same as when the guy grabs her and molests her. A woman could be wearing a proverbial tent and still get an unwanted look and can still be sexually assaulted. And a tent wearing woman can also generate lust just as much as a woman who is not wearing a tent.

While I accept the point that unwanted look is no the same as sexual assault, I will still hold the view that UNWANTED LOOKS may lead to sexual assults by some sick men.

The issue of sexual assault and women's dress is an excuse given usually by the rapist in the 'she was asking for it' argument. It is not an excuse.

You are wrong here, women dress is not an excuse but it IS a factor, check this, From an article called WHY MEN RAPE published in very respected American scientifical magazine:

IN SPITE OF PROTESTATIONS TO THE CONTRARY, women should also be advised that the way they dress can put them at risk.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2379/1_40/59024294/p8/article.jhtml?term=

The law does not recognise it as one. A woman should feel safe in whatever she chooses to wear. She should be and feel safe just walking around in her underwear.

This is BS, it is like saying walking in the savanas without any guns should be safe !!!!

It is no excuse for a man to molest or harrass a woman.

And who said it is an excuse ?? I said and I say again, there is NO excuse for rape, but I refuse to accept this pathetic argument that it is all MEN' FAULT...this is just BS.

However she may be dressed has nothing to do with it. If you are looking at a woman who's wearing a mini skirt and thinking 'hmmmm I could screw her right now' and actually do so without her consent, then it is YOU who has the problem and not the woman for wearing the skirt.

Or why you dont put this way, the woman is dressing mini skirt in order to create this lust in the man's head to screw her without being able to do so ??
and so this mini skirt woman can get a sense of feministy and empowerment over this man ?????

Why shouldn't she wear the skirt? Why should she have to change her manner of dress because YOU can't keep it in your pants?

Or why in the first place she is NOT keeping her own pants ??? you see, it is 2 way argument !

That is the whole of this argument. She could walk around naked and you could still not use the she asked for it argument. Why? Because if you rape someone, it is YOU who has the problems and issues. She is just the victim.

As I said, this is just BS...Maybe some rape victims are really innocents but the majority are NOT.

Read this interesting book called THE EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGY OF RAPE, and I quote:

''For the last quarter of a century, attempts to prevent rape have been guided by the social science explanation of rape (also commonly referred to as the feminist theory of rape). This explanation holds that the motivation to rape has little, if anything, to do with sexual desire. Instead, it holds that rape is an attempt by men to dominate and control women. It also contends that rape only occurs when males are taught by their culture, directly or indirectly, to rape. In our new book, *A Natural History of Rape*1, we challenge this established social science explanation of rape. We argue that although a given rapist may have numerous motivations for committing a rape, social scientists have failed to prove that sex is not one of these. Nor have social scientists seriously and honestly considered the vast evidence showing that rapists are sexually motivated.

http://www.aec.at/festival2000/texte/randy_thornhill_e.htm

And now to your 'keep their legs closed' argument. You surely can't be serious?

Can you please tell me how the prostitue dress ??? isnt prostitution a form of rape ??????????

Having been victim of a sexual attack a couple of years ago, I feel sick at reading your argument. I was only lucky that I was able to fight and get away before a rape actually took place. Did I think it was my fault it happened? NO. Did I think that what I was wearing at the time had anything to do with it? NO.

I am sorry to hear about your experience, but what you THINK does not matter here, we are talking about why rape takes place...perhaps, it will be more accurate if we listen to this man who tried to assult you and try to ask him why he did it ???

Did I ask for it in any way shape or form? NO. A woman does NOT ask for a sexual assault.

Sure, but by dressing so outrageously, they INVITE such assults. it is like keeping your house doors open and claiming no one will come and steal it !!!
there are SICK people out there who have serious mental problems, you have to guard yourself and your house.

our whole argument has sickened me PM.

I am sorry to hear that, shall I make you some fresh green arabic tea ?

 

[Proud_Muslim]

How come 'rape' figure in my post you quoted.? without reading properly you call everyone sick and that is the real sickness.

Its not my self-rightious attitude, it is from a learned quran scholar, Sheikh Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi, the Grand Mufti of the al-Azhar mosque in Cairo and the foremost authority in Sunni Islam.

read again spookz's quote & my post :

"But, he added, that obligation only applied "if the woman lives in a Muslim country". He quoted verses from the Koran stipulating that any Muslim who conforms to the laws of a non-Muslim country need not fear divine punishment."

If you don't agree with what Quran says then don't have any illusion that you are shield of Islam and call others sick. You should realize that you are putting Islam in bad light.

You dont know who the hell is sheikh Tantawi, you dont know that in Islam we dont have spiritual MIDDLE MAN, do you ???

Get some education about Islam, please.

 

[Proud_Muslim]

PS

Why do men dress differently when they go swimming from when they go to work?

Because if they swim with their ARMANI suite they will ruin it....very simple.

 

[Flores]

but we should not always blame the man for the crime, it is the time for women to KEEP THEIR LEGS CLOSED AS WELL.

Such degraded mental states have actually contributed to the hurting of women more than anything in our times. Let's hear what muslim men would like to do to their women to KEEP THEIR LEGS CLOSED....It's called Female genital mutilation.

The different types of mutilation
Female genital mutilation (FGM) is the term used to refer to the removal of part, or all, of the female genitalia. The most severe form is infibulation, also known as pharaonic circumcision. An estimated 15% of all mutilations are infibulations. The procedure consists of clitoridectomy (where all, or part of, the clitoris is removed), excision (removal of all, or part of, the labia minora), and cutting of the labia majora to create raw surfaces, which are then stitched or held together in order to form a cover over the vagina when they heal. A small hole is left to allow urine and menstrual blood to escape. In some less conventional forms of infibulation, less tissue is removed and a larger opening is left.

There is no evidence to support that rape rate in mutilated women is less than WHOLE women..The only evidence available is that when a mutilated women with a sewn vagina is raped, she usually dies out of inflicted wound or by her family.

Now let's hear what the Islamic Fatwa had to say about such an act....
http://www.polygamyinfo.com/intnalmedia plyg 46 link.htm

MONTREAL (CUP) - The excision of the clitoris from a healthy female was legitimized as a requirement of Islam two years ago by Sheik Ali Gad al-Hag, head of the Islamic Egyptian university al-Azhar, who gave a religious ruling, or fatwa, on the procedure.

Since al-Hag's statement became public, Egyptian doctors feel free to practice the 5,000 year-old ritual, which is considered perfectly legal in the country.

"Female circumcision is purely Islamic, like male circumcision - this is the word of our high religious authorities," Dr. Saeed Mohammed

 

[Proud_Muslim]

I think most of us want to keep church and state separate. Theocratic governments tend to be dogmatic,uncompromising,obstinate,despotic and tyranical. Man can be a SOB to his fellow man in the name of religion.

People that chose to live in such countries have no one to blame but themselves for any discomfort.

I think you guys live in closed world, you think what is good for you can be good for everyone !!