Is Life a Dialogue or a Monologue?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Bowser, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Why not?
    But I disagree with the way you worded this. What do you mean by "it is all about"?......

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    Interesting how some threads mesh.
    So far we have, "I am that, I am" and "it is all about......?"

    To refresh memory;

    Note how scripture offers absolutely no enlightenment as to the nature and properties of God
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  3. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    if I was a theist... which I am not... and if you read what I posted you could easily see that I am not...
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    and the whole point of science can be summed up in one sentence.
    to gain the knowledge and skills to ultimately become sentient "Gods" of this universe.

    Science seeks to become the God that theist dream about...
    To become masters of our own destiny... blah blah blah...
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Ants have done that for hundreds of millions of years, we are the result of all that.

    But let's assume you are right, and science seeks to understand how it all works as a pattern of increasing complexity.
    What do you think science would actually do with all that knowledge? Share it?

    Religions have created the greatest market places in human history. When it comes to BS, you have to stand in awe of religion. (Carlin)

    It's the applied sciences in business enterprises (profit/greed), which also seek market domination, but will be restrained by the need for a continued healthy market place.
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    • To gain power over nature ( god, universe - eh what ever rocks your boat)
    • To seek freedom from the restrains that nature ( god) enforces due to our ignorance.
    • To gain the power of choice that we didn't have as slaves to fearful superstitions/paranoia.
    • To placate our fear of impotency regarding our environment
    • To go where no man has gone before - ( Star Trekian style adventure)
    • etc etc...
    All good yes?
    Just one issue...
    Hopefully find the wisdom to prevent ourselves from self extinction due to unwise use of science. ( Nuclear war, climate change, genetic engineering, plastic filled oceans and so on)

    edit: Did you know that the Chernobyl exclusion zone should remain "hot" for at least another 20,000 years.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Yes I thought I summed it up reasonably☺.

    That is an interesting approach that I have not heard before and not in keeping with what I thought the idea of a god meant.

    I would suggest few in science would indulge a delusion that science "creates" the universe ...I find it difficult to draw the parrallel that you think you have discovered.

    I do think it would be safer to stick with what I would say we can observe as to what science does which is merely to construct models that allow repeatable testable predictions to be made.

    I doubt that is the case but I would be happy to hear from you as to why you think science can be thought of as an entity capable of "seeking" anything in particular.

    Science is really little more than a method of making a statement about reality, a hypothisis, which it does by setting a standard for supporting the hypothisis which we could for this discussion perhaps call "the claim" by requiring the presentation of a model using observation and requiring that model to be capable of tested via making predictions using the model.
    Failure of the predictions means the model fails.

    Yes I certainly agree with you there☺...but the beauty of science is blah blah does not cut it...

    I think the one thing science tells us however is that humans perhaps are not masters of their destiny.

    It is not a comforting fact but it seems extinction is the rule rather than the far we have been very lucky that extinction events in history have not killed all life but make no mistake we observe many events that if in our region would kill everything down to the very last microbe.... and unfortunately we have no control over the next big rock to hit the planet or indeed can we prevent a super nova exploding nearby that will kill all life on the planet.

    I need to check but the distance that would see us fried is as great as 3000 light years and even now there may be a wall of light rushing to wipe us out that we could never see before it wipes us out...I am not a scientist but I doubt few scientists believe we could ever be masters of our destiny to the exclusion of planet destroying cosmic events.

    I suggest you read or re read Karl Popper on scientific method which I think is useful for understanding what science is and is not and what science does and does not do.

    Thank you for your interesting comments.
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  10. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Perhaps if you apply the context provided you might be able to.
    The context of my reference to science is what to you?
    Maybe I could be more pedantic and allow for the diversity of readers more?
    The term I use "science ", in this case, is referring to the field of science as a whole including the people who work in this field. ( not just the scientific method )
    and making a case would be easy as that is what they (science) are doing. IMO
    • to gain the knowledge and skills to ultimately become sentient "Gods" of this universe.
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Yes, all good, no apparent difference in motive. I completely agree that both religion and science are ultimately engaged in the same endeavors, each from a different perspective.

    The problem with religion is that its dogma tends to inhibit science. The opposite is not true.

    The parable of the Garden of Eden is an example of the metaphorical nature of theism in general and specifically in religions. Scripture suggests that eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge will get you expelled from Eden and sure death.
    I don't see that as encouraging scientific inquiry for purpose of achieving "enlightenment".
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Actually this is often subject to misinterpretation IMO.
    The actual words are: ( or very close to the effect of)
    "And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
    google: 2:4-3:24&version=NIV
    ( I don't actually own a bible or any religious text for that matter so online will have to do)
    note that the tree of knowledge is about good and evil, morality not scientific knowledge...
    why does it refer to only good and evil in the way it does I have no idea...
    Why a knowledge of good and evil would lead to death is quite bizarre. IMO
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    And how God could have communicated such a command is a mystery.
    I asked the same question and I've come to the conclusion that in Scripture knowledge of good and evil equals intelligent decision making. IOW, the separation from a natural state of innocence to a disobedient curiosity and it's attendant dangers. As such the metaphor works.
    Of course it has nothing to do with God communicating this truth, the practise of teaching survival techniques is self-evident in many other evolved species. Watch a mother hen teach her chicks how to peck for food. Watch a chimpanzee troup teach a young male his place in the patriarchy or matriachy (in the case of Bonobos). In all of these social animals moral behavior is taught very early on and overly enthusiastic behavior such as trying to explore too far from safety is sternly "corrected". Great apes invented the earliest gods, who spoke in terms of thunder and lightning and other natural global phenomena such as floods, volcanoes, meteor impacts, etc.

    Later came sacrifices to appease these gods......

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    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018

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