Is Abortion Murder?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Bowser, Aug 22, 2015.

?

I Believe Abortion Is...

  1. Murder

    5 vote(s)
    14.7%
  2. A Woman's Choice

    25 vote(s)
    73.5%
  3. A Crude Form of Birth Control

    6 vote(s)
    17.6%
  4. Unfortunate but Often Necessary

    18 vote(s)
    52.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    26,866
    Because you purport to be educational, rather than deceptive. And you purport to be speaking from a moral basis, rather than amoral expediency. For the same reason honest people arguing from morality distinguish between early and late gestation when talking about abortion - because morally, it makes a difference.

    Why conceal the distinction? Who are you trying to fool?
    The actual implication is that the gruesome tools depicted there (whichever ones they are - none are excluded from the reference) were designed for elective live abortion such as we hear about at Planned Parenthood.

    The cleverness of the wording indicates intent - the lie is deliberate, calculated. The Biblical term is "false witness", a wisely chosen term that covers all manner of deception and concealment.

    And you have defended it exactly as it was designed to be defended - which requires self-awareness. You know when you are bearing false witness, and you do it with calculation and intent.

    Absolutely. Do you agree that people witnessing doctors saving the life of a woman by removing a dead or dying fetus should know what they are witnessing? - on an honest, educational website, one that encourages informed "contemplation".
     
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  3. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    887
    Capracus
    do you have a literacy problem or are you intentionally being stupid or trolling? I am going with the latter given your demonstrated prior postings...
    again, no. their use, not their design.
    ...you're trolling with blatant stupidity still, arbitrarily trying to redefine reality with your own delusional beliefs.

    lets actually read what is written, shall we?
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/design

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/use

    the design of the tools is for general (and specific, as in the spinal needle on a syringe) surgery. The use of the tools is: abortion, surgery, etc

    your argument from stupidity is that design is equivalent to use.
    it is not.
    just because something is used in a particular manner doesn't mean it was designed to be used in said manner.

    per your definition, silverware, P-38's, vacuum cleaners and cars are all specific "abortion tools" because, by use, they've been employed in the past to abort the unborn.
    no, i didn't. the fastest way through a door is to remove the lock(s) ... prying a door takes time and effort that is time consuming and removes the effective ability of the firefighter/rescue team
    again, re-read the definitions
    again, re-read the definitions: you are trying to define use as the same as design
    this is my point, jeenyus. and again, re-read the definitions: you are trying to define use as the same as design
    you cannot call something specific to abortion when it is generally used: the spinal needle, by design, is specifically for regional anesthesia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_anaesthesia , ), but by use, can be functional in - abortions, oncology, pediatrics, podiatry, OB/GYN, orthopedic surgery... etc. ( http://www.medline.com/product/Spinal-Needles/Regional-Anesthesia/Z05-PF06798 )
    this link should bring up a list of possible uses, whereas the design was specific to a purpose.

    now lets look and the specific design of the tool:
    http://www.csen.com/SPINAL.pdf
    now, please note that the history specifically calls out the following
    Notice there is absolutely NO mention of abortion being specific to the design. this is because it's use in abortion is not a use by design.
    You can learn more about the reasons for design by searching, or reading studies like this one:
    http://www.aana.com/newsandjournal/Documents/p111-116.pdf

    like i said: you are not capable of comprehending the difference between use and design...
    but it is more likely that you are simply trying your hardest to justify your delusional belief and intentionally attempt to inflame the conversation with attempts to spread your lie and your beliefs. (AKA- trolling)
    you are intentionally perpetrating the lie that surgical tools are abortion tools. see above for definitions of: use, design
    see also: History and design of spinal needle

    you know, one can actually bring up all the surgical tools "history and design" and demonstrate your intentional lie, but this example is sufficient to prove your intent and demonstrate the lie.


    so, you really are just trolling then?
    thanks
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    35,512
    Mod Hat ― Cleanup

    Fourteen posts have been splintered out to the Cesspool; I think we all know why. If I might beg a boon, I would encourage people to let it pass, since this will be settled soon enough.
     
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  7. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    Is anyone else disgusted by the observation that this is one of the most active discussion threads on this website, yet the vast majority of posts are by MEN?

    I continue to abide by me ex-wife's comment on the subject:

    I'll give a flying fuck for what MEN think about abortion, the first time one of you assholes gets PREGNANT.​
     
  8. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,938
    well i'm of the mind of i have a penis therefore i don't get a say. however since there are assholes that think they do i tend to demand that men vote for choice because that way there not telling women what they can and can't do with there bodies. i'd also like to state that if they ever come out with a male birth control pill with comparable side effects to the female version i'd go on it asap.
     
  9. tali89 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    343
    How do you know the majority of posters are men? Are you checking if each contributor to this topic has a penis?

    Anyway, I wouldn't be too disgusted. The two self-admitted men who have offered up their opinion have either been brow-beaten into silence with ridicule and misrepresentation, or straight-out censored, so the safe space left-wing women and their male sycophants desperately require has been maintained for the most part.

    My ex-boyfriend felt a woman's thoughts on abortion should be taken less seriously than a man's, since they were too close to the issue to be able to think about it in an unbiased and clinical manner. He felt that women get so caught up in the "My body, my choice!" spiel, that they don't even consider at what point a fetus acquires personhood. Ergo. They have a conflict of interests.
     
  10. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,938
    um i've admitted to being a dude and i was not brow beaten into silence. but thats maybe because i'm not you know defending a culture of rape.
     
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  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    The demographics of the SciForums membership--especially active posters--slants heavily toward males.
    I haven't been browbeaten, ridiculed, misrepresented or censored. Of course I'm a moderator, but in other discussions I haven't noticed that this has stopped anyone from behaving badly.
    I can see why he is now your EX boyfriend.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    That's like saying that only white people should be allowed to vote on issues related to racism, because black/red/yellow/brown people would not be able to take an objective perspective on the subject. Oh wait, our predecessors actually tried that, didn't they?
     
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  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    35,512
    Well, there was the occasion I went off on Mrs. Fraggle because your mention of her point coincided with a day on which, apparently, up with it I would not put.
     
  13. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,160
    If you look at the scientific definition of life, the unborn are alive.

    From wikipedia; search term Life

    The smallest contiguous unit of life is called an organism. Organisms are composed of one or more cells, undergo metabolism, maintain homeostasis, can grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce (either sexually or asexually) and, through evolution, adapt to their environment in successive generations.[1] A diverse array of living organisms can be found in the biosphere of Earth, and the properties common to these organisms—plants, animals, fungi, protists, archaea, and bacteria—are a carbon- and water-based cellular form with complex organization and heritable genetic information.

    Politics is different from science and appeals to emotions and not reason based on scientific evidence. But since many people, especially liberals depend on emotions before reason, they may assume the political definition reflects science. According to science, since the unborn is alive, but the liberals don't know the difference between science from political spin, abortion is not conscious murder but unconscious manslaughter.

    If someone told me that plant fertilizer was good for arthritis, but I did not fact check and but assumed they were not manipulating me, and I fed it to an elderly person and they died this is not murder but manslaughter.


     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,625
    I don't think anyone questions that a fetus is alive. Your appendix is alive too. Does that mean an appendectomy is murder? No..
     
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  15. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,506
    Your appendix has limited potential. It will never walk, talk, have children of its own, or do anything nearly as comprehensive as can a person.
     
  16. tali89 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    343
    Which gives no indication of whether the people participating in *this thread* are male. It seems rather petulant of you to complain about all the males participating in this thread, when we don't really know what proportion of posters involved are male, and the known males who have offered up strong opinions have been belittled/browbeaten by the majority.

    Capracus and Bowser have been. You haven't offered up an opinion other than 'My ex reckons men shouldn't be able to voice their opinion'.

    For having an opinion? No, he's my ex because he was offered a very lucrative job offer overseas, and I didn't want to uproot myself to maintain the relationship. The notion that a man has to nod and agree with his partner in order to maintain the peace is outrageous and boring. My exs' could have whatever opinions they wanted to, as long as they satisfied me and allowed me to live my life as I see fit.

    I passed your analogy on to my ex, and he thinks that it isn't quite correct. He'd argue that only taking womens' opinions about abortion into account would be like only taking the slaveowners' opinions into account when attempting to determine if slaves are people. The crux of the matter is at what point (if any) we consider a developing fetus to be a person, and it's clear that the woman has a conflict of interest when attempting to answer that question.
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    35,512
    The idea that a woman's right to govern what takes place inside her body is somehow a "conflict of interest" would be laughable if it was actually funny. As it is, it's kind of a sick notion.
     
  18. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,506
    Killing the unborn for the sake of conveniences also sounds rather gross, too. Why not take it a step further and just make all children potential victims?
     
  19. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,506
    Here's a relevant video that might interest some of you. Be aware, it is a lengthy one, but well worth the watch.

     
  20. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,625
    My sperm also can turn into a person. Does that mean I murder a million persons every time I masturbate? No..So obviously potential has nothing to do with it.
     
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  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,625
    Because children are persons with rights. Fetuses aren't. They're not even conscious.
     
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  22. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,506
    They are living beings. Being captive in a woman's body doesn't make it any less viable.
     
  23. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,506
    It's not potential 'til it reaches a woman's egg. Once the division of cells begin, it's on the way of becoming something unique.
     

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