H.R.5181

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by Bowser, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    You watch your videos. They are irrelevant. It's not going to change anything comrade. You have made assertions for which you cannot justify with real, credible, and relevant information. The best you can do is some guy's book which about his experiences of a century ago.

    You have made some assertions so prove them with real, credible, and relevant data. You can't, hence all this obfuscation.
     
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  5. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    3,225
    So why did you?

    Ah the ol but

    Ah the forgotten question

    Followed by the two videos

    I got this, they were thinking

    I wish this bloody war was over so I can go home for some peace and quiet

    Don't know don't care

    Like the word

    More polite than my Cowpat

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  7. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

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    I guess the only thing left for me to do here is say, "Checkmate". You're a pretty good sophist but there's a point at which things are so clear that sophistry just becomes ineffective. Those two speeches of Hitler's came as a big surprise to me as they would to any Amerian who'd just seen the mainstream history. This is a clear case of dishonesty by the American mainstream which shows who writes the fake news and history. Any sophist who tries to obfuscate this just ends up looking silly.

    Check out some of this revisionist history.
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Hitler's War - What the Historians Neglect to Mention&sm=12
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Hitler Saved Europe From Stalin&sm=12

    I'm not taking a firm stand on the above yet but it's consistent with those two speeches of Hitler's.

    Those two speeches of Hitler's are history. Tell us why we didn't hear them in history class.
     
  8. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    9,822
    Good one! You win, Hitler was just a poor misunderstood guy.
    I guess your work is done here, good-bye (please, oh please) and have a good life.
     
  9. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    If you go look at post #80, you'll see that I said I didn't rule out the idea that Hitler was lying to get the German people to unwittingly support imperialist policies. Misrepresenting someone's position is a pretty low tactic.

    Those two speeches are history, are they not? Please tell us why you think we don't hear them in history class.
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    ...feeling the pangs of your insecurity again comrade?

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    ....feeling the need to declare yourself victorious are you?

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    Here is your problem; you have been unable to justify your assertions with relevant and credible evidence. That's not sophistry comrade. That's a fact. The best you can do is cite a dead general who wrote about his experiences of more than a century ago. What you have and continue to do is ignore more than a century of history in an attempt to rationalize your irrational assertions.

    And now you are attempting to distract with more nonsense. This time with Nazi Germany, e.g. Hitler was just this poor misunderstood guy.

    Oh, no you are not taking a firm stand? Just who do you think you are fooling comrade? Unfortunately for you most people are not as brain dead as you need them to be.

    You have no credible evidence with respect to any of your assertions. That would be a problem for a "truth seeker". But it's not a problem for you.

    You have ignored a century of history. You have ignored the that the US willingly granted independence to Philippines. You have ignored much of WW II and the resultant post WW II reconstruction including the creation of the United Nations. You have ignored the whole civil rights movement and more. You are not the kind to let credible facts get in the way of your ideology.

    Unfortunately for you, most people aren't as brain dead as you need them to be in order to buy your bullshit.
     
  11. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    Hey josepistola...

    You ignored my question. Here it is again.

    Those two speeches of Hitler's are history. Tell us why we didn't hear them in history class.
     
  12. Kristoffer Giant Hyrax Valued Senior Member

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    1,233
    It's going to be a long class if every speech has to be included.
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    And hey Fatfreddy, just because you don't like the answer, it doesn't mean your question hasn't been answered. It has been answered many times now. No matter how many times you ask, the answer will not change comrade.

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    Your Hitler speeches prove nothing. Furthermore they aren't relevant. His speeches were given almost a hundred years ago, and you think they are somehow relevant to today and your current assertions about the US today? Just because Hitler may have said something, it doesn't mean he was truthful. Just because some ideologue says something, it doesn't mean he or she is truthful. Just because some clown posts something on the internet, it doesn't mean it is truthful.

    Again, you have consistently cherry picked your way through history, ignoring the lions share of the last century in a desperate attempt to rationalize the clearly irrational.
     
  14. river Valued Senior Member

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    9,206
    Nope
     
  15. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    You haven't answered the question I asked. Just saying the question is irrelevant isn't an answer.

    They prove that the US government lied to us about what the German people and soldiers were thinking during WW2. Americans are taught that the German people and soldiers had world conquest in mind. Those speeches show that to be false. We've found a case of blatant dishonesty by the US government.

    They are relevant because they expose the US government as a liar. If it lied once, it can lie again.

    I've already said that he may have been lying to get the people and soldiers to unwittingly support imperialist policies. That's not the issue here. The issue here is what the German people were thinking during the war.

    This is a little vague. Are you saying that those speeches might be bogus? Do you think the translation is bad? Please be more specific.


    (from post #88)
    Give me a break.
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/h-r-5181.158636/page-2#post-3434381

    This is another case of the US government blatantly lying to the people. You've admitted that what Smedley Butler said reflected reality. That reality is not taught in American history classes. It isn't on the history channel. We are taught a different reality which is false.


    These two cases totally destroy the government's credibility when it comes to defining what news is true and what news is false. Go ahead and play dumb. You won't fool anybody with an IQ over ninety.

    http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html
    (excerpt)
    ------------------------------------------------------
    9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
    -------------------------------------------------------


    An objective truth-seeker who sees this info...
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/h-r-5181.158636/page-2#post-3435242

    ...would try to find out whether or not it was true. He or she wouldn't just dismiss it with no investigation.
     
  16. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Hey crazy guy! I have never heard the goverment say what the German people and soldiers thought, never. Nobody needs to hear anything from the goverment. Look at the territory that the Nazis took over by force. End of story.

    Nixon gave a speech where he said he is not a crook. That proves that watergate was false and Nixon was unfairly forced out of office right?

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  17. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Is this the question you require an answer to?

    I can think of a number of answers but to lazy to type all of them

    I'll give you one

    You pick a number between 1 and 10 million and I'll post the answer corresponding to that number

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  18. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps we are being taught the REAL reality but it's happening in another dimension

    Adjust my Tin Foil hat before pressing Post Reply

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  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    FatFreddie doesn't care about facts.
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,875
    LOL....

    Just because you don't like the answers comrade, it doesn't mean the answers haven't been given. Your question has been answered many times, and the answer will not change just because you don't like it.

    Except they don't. They prove Hitler said something. It doesn't prove the US government lied about anything much less about how the German people and soldiers were thinking. How could anyone know what everyone in a nation is thinking, as if everyone in the country was of one mind, as if that were even possible? What you have done comrade is consistently misrepresent history. What you have done comrade is consistently cherry pick your way through history.

    And on top of that, what people thought about Nazi German motivations are totally irrelevant to your present assertions about the US government for previously given reasons. You are obfuscating comrade.

    So because, according to you, the US government lied once some 77 years ago it, it's always a liar? And that somehow makes sense to you? Under that standard everyone is lying all the time, because everyone and every nation has told at least one lie.

    Did you now? You lied comrade. Until now you have made no such assertion. So according to your standard you are not trustworthy. Which is it comrade, your allegation that the US lied or what the German people were thinking? You need to make up your mind and stop contradicting yourself. You just said the issue was whither the US lied and now you are saying that's not the issue. The issue now, according to you, what the German people were thinking.

    That's all nonsense comrade.

    No. It's not at all vague. In fact it's very explicit. Just because some wacko posts something on the internet it doesn't mean it is truthful. Just because Hitler said something it doesn't mean what he said was truthful. You are once again obfuscating comrade.

    LOL....give you a break?

    Doubling down on General Butler are you?

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    As you have been repeatedly instructed, General Butler lived more than a hundred years ago. The world has changed, and changed dramatically from Butler's time.

    You keep ignoring more than a century of history comrade.

    Except you have no evidence of that. My history classes were pretty good. Just because the History Channel doesn't push your unfounded conspiracies, it doesn't make them wrong. It doesn't make them deceptive. I don't know what history classes you took, but I'm beginning to think they were in or around the Kremlin. In that case, I can understand why you steadfastly refuse to recognize more than a hundred years of history.

    Except they don't. You need to ask yourself why you only rely on specious conspiracy websites and reject all credible sources: sources which have been thoroughly vetted an a number of sources.

    An objective seeker of truth wouldn't ignore more than a century of history as you have done and continue to do. An objective seeker of truth wouldn't confine him or herself to only using specious conspiracy sources as you have done and continue to do.
     
  21. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    An objecdtive truth-seeker wouldn't misrepresent the other side's position as you're doing here. Anyone who reads this whole thread can see that I haven't been ignoring more than a century of history. I've been presenting a version of it that's different from the one you're presenting.
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/h-r-5181.158636/page-2#post-3433860
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/h-r-5181.158636/page-2#post-3435242

    You seem to be trying to mislead those viewers who tune it late and don't read the whole thread; that's about all you can do now I suppose.

    I'll have to reiterate again. What this American General says...
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/h-r-5181.158636/#post-3433854

    ...about his period in history is very different from what Americans are taught about that particular period of history. The info I posted about that period of history is consistent with what that American General said so we can deduce that the US government and the American mainstream media are teaching us lies and the alternative press is giving us a version that's a lot closer to what's really happening.

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Haiti/Haiti_Under_Seige.html

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chalmers_Johnson/Imperialisms_TSOE.html
    (excerpt)
    --------------------------------------------------------
    The new American empire has been a long time in the making. Its roots go back to the early nineteenth century, when the United States declared all of Latin America its sphere of influence
    --------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/American_Empire/Century_Imperialism.html
    (excerpts)
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Although it arrived late on the empire-building scene, the U.S. operated no differently than other imperialist powers. It turned the Caribbean Sea into a virtual U.S. lake. In the 100 years since the Spanish-American War, the U.S. has invaded Cuba five times, Honduras four times, Panama four times, the Dominican Republic twice, Haiti twice, Nicaragua twice and Grenada once.
    So much for U.S. rhetoric about opposing aggression.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Whenever the colonial subjects of the U.S. fought back, the U.S. drowned them in blood. As Mark Twain commented on the Philippine war:
    We have pacified some thousands of the islanders and buried them; destroyed their fields; burned their villages, and turned their widows and orphans out-of-doors; furnished heartbreak by exile to some dozens of disagreeable patriots; subjugated the remaining ten millions by Benevolent Assimilation, which is the pious new name of the musket; we have acquired property in the three hundred concubines and other slaves of our business partner, the Sultan of Sulu, and hoisted our protecting flag over that swag.
    And so, by these Providences of God--and the phrase is the government's, not mine--we are a World Power.
    In the 1900-1903 war to conquer the Philippines, the U.S. killed more than 1 million people. In the midst of that war, U.S. Army General Shefter said: "It may be necessary to kill half of the Filipinos in order that the remaining half of the population may be advanced to a higher plane of life than their present semi-barbarous state affords."

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Enter "American Imperialism" here for more.
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/htdig/search.html


    I might as well just post stuff for the viewers to see. Here's another revisionist video on WW2.
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Who Started´╗┐ World War II? by Viktor Suvorov&sm=12

    I haven't formed a firm opinion on revisionist WW2 history but the thing to do when one finds info such as this is to use the scientific method* to analyze it and try to verify it. That's all I'm doing. In a case such as this one should have neither a naive willingness to believe, nor an a priori incredulity. Joepistole has a naive willingness to believe when he looks at the official version of things and an a priori incredulity when he looks at alternative and revisionist info. He has a foregone conclusion and he just concludes what he wants to be true. This would get him laughed out of the debating hall.


    *
    https://www.google.es/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=veayWNP3EemAgAaHrojYCg#q=scientific method&*
     
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  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,875

    Well, here is the your problem comrade, any "seeker of truth" can see how you have and continue to cherry pick your way through history and how you have ignored much of the last century. You still refuse to recognize much of the last century. Further, you continue to reference superfluous, specious, and irrelevant sources and material.

    You are obfuscating comrade. A true "seeker of truth" could address reality head on: something you cannot do. You have been consistently unable to make a reason fact based argument for your cause. That should be a problem for a true "seeker of truth". But it isn't. Why is that comrade?
     
  23. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    Here's some stuff I've already posted on this issue.
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/psychology-of-conspiracy-theorists.144995/page-16#post-3380306
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/psychology-of-conspiracy-theorists.144995/page-17#post-3401661
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/psychology-of-conspiracy-theorists.144995/page-17#post-3403489
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/psychology-of-conspiracy-theorists.144995/page-17#post-3403601

    Tell us what you think.
     

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