Discussion in 'Religion' started by James R, Aug 31, 2018.
What is your understanding of the biblical flood?
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That it is of no integral consequence to the central claims of christianity.
Which claims are central? Is the Bible true or not?
I think I would agree.
It seems from my studies that the story was put together by borrowing from two different authors of a story each of them found elsewhere.
I have never understood what message was to be found in it and why the story was included in the bible.
Just another turd in the pool that needs to be ignored I guess.
It would seem that Ken Ham considers the Ark somewhat central to christianity given his investment in his Ark.
I think he would reject your opinion on the matter.
I had hoped for something more from you given your interest in history but I thank you for your reply.
As far as christianity goes, the NT would be the best place to start, although to do that you need understand what the OT is about.
So the book itself tells you which parts should be taken literally and which parts are allegory or something else?
So god got it wrong the first time and had to revise his plan? Sort of contradicts the whole omniscient, unchanging spiel doesn't it.
Practically all books do.
Assuming the whole affair works from some sort of top-down affair that has no need to regard what is beneath it, sure.
Well, a grand total of eight that the Church believes for the New Testament; a more likely number is 14 or 15. The Old Testament, of course, has a much larger number.
Take the very first book of the Bible and look at Genesis 1 vs Genesis 2. Two different authors, two different names for God, two different (incompatible) creation stories.
That's the beauty of the Bible. Want to find messages of love and compassion? They are there aplenty. Want to find a command to kill all the gays, or keep immigrants behind a wall? If you look hard enough, you can find that too.
If that were true there would be no Christian sects. There would be just one correct interpretation.
How do you figure that?
Because the book is ambiguous enough for basic differences in how people interpret it. For instance on slavery.
I was only referring to the flood re authors and you certainly nailed it and extended the proposition.
Does this suggest many Gods were guiding authors?.....given the inconsistencies it would seem highly probable...but wait it all made up by humans and so we can understand why it suffers errors and inconsistency because clearly even if there is a God he she they it "is" would have done better.
I was going to say the Ark / Flood story is the biggest turd in the pool but as I started to make a list you notice there are quiet a few big ones.
It is interesting that theists claim that morality (good) can only come from the bible and reject the notion that morality is something the individual assembles when clearly if one were to take ten different folk to construct a moral code for each of themselves each using the bible for their guide you would simply have ten different moral codes.
As you say if you dont like gays well stone away but if you prefer go with "love your fellow man" which presumably puts a stop on rock throwing at folk who have as much right to do their thing as anyone else.
Oh and while stoning those gays perhaps address the raping priests...no? Of course now its forgiveness that is rolled out.
Is it any wonder that hypocracy is a common trait with theists?
I suppose the beauty of the bible is that for some folk it would be the only book they would own and even reading the selected passages provided by their particular preacher they at least read something which it would seem may be the only thing they would ever read and so at least they are receptive to the need to be able to read.
But this reading thing is probably satans trick so lets burn all the books.
Although I guess some theists like Jan would say they dont even need to read as they just know because well they just know.
Well its like the eternal universe I just know and you cant understand the eternal universe until you accept it and when you accept it you know its real☺.
Re the flood...
If one was to take the flood story as a fact, (I know that is stepping outside reality but thats the game we play with the theist), it suggests that this God ( two of them given the flood story) notwithstanding his/their/her/it/"is"infalability, arrived at a point where he she it they "is" decided to start again, clearly an addmission of failure ...now rather than reprogram the various humans decided to throw them all out.
Musika likes saying "that would be like"...so let me try...that would be like throwing out every computer in the world bar eight because of a virus effecting the software rather than writing a program to fix the virus...and presumably God being the ultimate programer would be able to write any software to fix any computer... how cruel to kill all the humans how immoral to defend such an approach how stupid to believe the story in the first place.
It does not surprise me that Musika seeks to distance himself from the flood story but for him to suggest it is of no concern to christianity is certainly a case of sticking his head in the sand or someplace because he seems to have missed the Ken Ham Ark show and how it is presented as indeed central to the christians...but how typical of a theist to simply ignore reality if if hinders their delusion.
Thank you for your post I certainly enjoyed it.
Sounds like you are arguing against your own ideas of books lending themselves to one rigid interpretation.
In modern as (some) Americans speak I guess you could call those wiped out the deplorables
Sorry but probably I have been watching to much American politics on TV
I note that from almost 200 recommendations about church pedophile the pope said they would act on all but 2 (I think)
One of those was confession would remain secret
Reason - none one would confess if it was going to be released. Dooh
Soooooo- confession made - absolution given - but safe from any retribution (in legal terms they get a slap on the wrist)
Worse - keep them in the fold plus - send them out to fresh pastures
My solution - a priest who has heard a ped confession and not reported it be subject to the same secular consequences personally
Same rules for any other reportable crime
Curious about how long before confession descends to "I masturbated thinking of girls"
Steps down, picks up soap box, goes for a calming coffee
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I would expect such an awesomely important book, literally the missives of the creator of the universe itself to have a little more clarity than a repair manual for an '72 Jeep CJ-5.
Can you provide an example of any such literature or ideas that finds a necessarily singular mode of appreciation, application or response?
It seems that if a book or idea is great, it is measured by its influence maintained over time.
2000 years later, and even you can't seem to stop yourself talking about it.
Can you imagine trying to fix a Jeep with a book written like that?
"Thou shalt torque the nut on the steering arm to 110 cubits per dinar."
"Neither a torquer or a loosener shall thou be."
"I am the Light and the Way; no jeep returns to service other than through my Book."
"Though jeeps may change, not one jot or tittle of the '68 service manual shall thou pass until all has been put right."
"Anyone who uses a torque wrench shall be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
"And then David returned to the village. And the people there said 'David! What hast thou done about the steering arm on thy jeep?" And David spoke, saying 'question not the torque on the steering arm nut. If the steering arm offends thee, cast it off; for what will it benefit you to have your steering arm if you are not in the graces of the Service Department of the Almighty Dealer?' "
I am told, that the Flood is in ancient Aztec, Mayan, and other cultures throughout the world. So some things in the Bible may be true, but distorted. For example, Yahweh may not actually exist as the Bible implies, or exists and is a bad person.
Separate names with a comma.