Does reincarnation exist?

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by Asexperia, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Until you define what the "You" is there is not a whole lot to discuss...
    Buddhism refers to the Atman.
    The atman refers to the real self beyond ego or false self. It is often referred to as 'spirit' or 'soul' and indicates our true self or essence which underlies our existence.

    the way the East looks at self is totally different to the ideas proliferating the West.
    Ego refers to memories/ attachments / vanity / fears, etc...
    The true self has no ego... thus "Slaying the ego" is about becoming your Atman. (true self)
    only if you use an adulterated and made up version of what the self is..
    So like I suggested until you actually discuss what it is that is being reincarnated we are potentially at cross purposes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    "Down the tubes"

    start @ 2:40 (warning crude language)
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
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  5. river

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    George Carlin , was not always intelligent .

    I laughted alot . Thanks Write4U .
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, until you die and all existence goes away. Oblivion as a self-referential organism, scattered to the wind if you want to be cremated. If not you become food for the worms. Worms do not have souls or Atman.

    Mind, I like the concept of Buddhism. It advocates for a balanced life, which should be more than sufficient goal to strive for, while being alive. This after life stuff is "wishful thinking", IMO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The ego keeps you alive. It is when you lose control of your ego that you become a danger to your environment.
    That was Buddha's message as I interpret it.
     
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  9. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Death is a generalization, made with limited understanding. I am sure there is no such thing. The air is your mind, and it rots a corps. The Buddhas teach that when this body dies you are thus free. Nirvana is for the living, there is no point in being dead. It's going to be a long time, what was here before it began? Some sort of form of energy, but there are only so many shapes and colors, and energy must exist...
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Death is a very well understood phenomenon.

    There is nothing "sacred" about death.

    Death,
    noun
    1. the action or fact of dying or being killed; the end of the life of a person or organism.
      "an increase in deaths from skin cancer"
    2. the permanent ending of vital processes in a cell or tissue.
    3. the state of being dead.
    4. dying, end, passing, passing away, passing on, loss of life, expiry, expiration, departure from life, final exit.
    1. Similar: demise, eternal rest, kicking the bucket, decease.
    Opposite: Life

    There is nothing sacred about Life either.
    If everything that ever lived is dead, and everything that is alive is going to die, where does the sacred part and limited understanding of death come in?

    Tell me, to the Universe what's the significance of Humans being alive in any form?
    How about the Dinosaurs, did they have a limited understanding of life ? Is that why they're dead?
    No, no one has a right to life, we have the right to try and stay alive against some interesting odds, like viruses....

    "Natural selection" has nothing to do with "universal choice", only with "survival long enough to procreate".

    A Mayfly gets 24 hours to breed and procreate. Then it dies, end of its story and the beginning of a new one, over and over, rolling along for billions of years.
     
  11. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Agree to disagree. Energy is neither created nor destroyed, and imo it can only have so many forms.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Oh I agree.
    But the one form pure energy cannot take is intelligence or self-awareness. That requires biology. The are no living beings made out of pure energy. That's sci-fi.
    https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2014/in-the-beginning-there-were-three-elements/#

    In a mathematical universe, there is only a possible quasi-intelligent, self-referential, dynamical mathematical function, based on relational values of the forms energy can become expressed, starting with 3 elements in a state of pure Chaos.

    And AFAIK, that is the most logical model of a TOE.

    p.s. The universe does not meet the 7 fundamental requirements of a living organism.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    a human being:
    Almost 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Only about 0.85% is composed of another five elements: potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium. All 11 are necessary for life.

    so what makes it walk and talk when all those elements are inanimate?
    What's the mathematics for life?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Actually 90% of the mass of the human biome (aside from H2O) is made up from bacteria. These barely living single celled symbiotic organisms keep us alive! (Bonnie Bassler)
    First, interactions of elements are not inanimate, most of them interact in a dynamic manner. They only look inanimate because we cannot see the dynamical nature of atoms. [/quote]What's the mathematics for life?[/QUOTE] What we can observe is the regular patterns emerging from the dynamical interactions of the elements. There are four basic dynamical chemical interactions from which biochemistry emerged. Some of these already occur as;
    Oxidation reactions, Hydration and Dehydration reactions, Acid based reactions, Polymerization and Depolymerization reactions. (see Robert Hazen). All of these processes can be represented by interactive relational mathematical values and equations.
    https://www.mcgill.ca/biochemistry/about-us/information/biochemistry

    There is no magical "elan vital", only "orderly" self-organization from simple to more complex forms and patterns. AKA, Evolutionary processes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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  16. river

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    Write4U ;

    All Objects because they are Real with the minimum of three dimensions , something that our senses can detect , will by its very Nature have a mathematical character . Something that can be measured ; Naturally .
     
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  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And IMO, that proves all physical functions are in essence mathematical in nature. It is the dynamical relationship of mathematical values that allow for the orderly chronology of "Input --> Process --> Output"
     
  18. river

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    No you misunderstand Write4U . The mere existence of a three dimensional objects will have a measurable dimension to it and therefore movements as well .

    But ;

    What allows the existence of mathematical values . ? Are mathematical Values before the Physical Objects ? If So ; how So .?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  19. river

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    Anyway does reincarnation exist ?

    Life is an Energy form . Slowly Humans are Evolving . The Paranormal is being investigated .
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Right and those measurable dimensions and dynamical activities have relational values. The Universe does not need to know or quantify these values, they are inherent in the physical potentials of the objects themselves.

    Example: A Daisy's petal growth is always in accordance to the Fibonacci Sequence. It does not know this but evolution has refined it's growth algorithm to the FS, because it is the most efficient growth pattern possible and all flowers that follow the FS have the largest surface area and most efficient seed distribution (Sunflowers, Pinecones) and light gathering ability for photosynthesis, insuring maximum probability for survival of that species or family.
    No, its the physical potentials that have consistent relational values. It is the consistency that may be translated into relative mathematical values. Evolution always produces maximum efficiency as compared to prior forms. Efficiency (order, consistency) is a mathematical function, AFAIK.

    The thing is that the mathematics always seem to emerge from the relational expressions between cause and effect. The mathematics becomes expressed and measurable during or following the function. Some effects are chaotic (probabilistic), other effects are constant and predictable and lend themselves to translation into mathematical symbolism, like numbers and algebraic functions.
    You're recognizing that energy cannot be created or destroyed, which is true. That's the Second Law of Thermodynamics, but there is also a Law of Entropy and I believe that law applies to your paranormal energy world, i.e. the soul, ghosts, etc.

    Entropy, noun

    Physics
    1. a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
    "the second law of thermodynamics says that entropy always increases with time"

    2. lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.
    "a marketplace where entropy reigns supreme"

    Mathematics

    3. (in information theory) a logarithmic measure of the rate of transfer of information in a particular message or language.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

    IMO, it's obvious that the soul or any other paranormal phenomenon cannot convert back to energy, or perform actual work, or transfer information such as in reincarnation. The closest thing to reincarnation is mitosis, cell division into exact copies of the parent cell.

    If it is possible, then it should be possible to measure this action and discover the mechanism, no? We are beginning to understand the mechanism of mitosis, but I don't think that applies to paranormal activities.

    AFAIK, there is no such measurement possible. Hence the term "paranormal"

    I was intrigued by Kirlian photography, which is able to record the electrical energy surrounding objects. That's really cool. You can even cut part of the leaf and the aura still shows the area where the leaf was intact. Fascinating stuff.

    Mastering the Kirlian Photography Technique: A Short Guide
    by Richard Gaspari, May 21, 2018

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    The Kirlian photography technique is still one of the most spectacular ways to shoot different subjects. This method is a bit of a mystery, especially for those who are beginners in the art of photography. Here's how it works.

    https://fstoppers.com/education/mastering-kirlian-photography-technique-short-guide-247485

    I admit these are my modest attempts at logical interpretations, but if they can be proven wrong I'd love to be corrected.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  21. river

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    Highlighted

    Is it true though ? It isn't .

    A Panda Bear eats bamboo , Hardly efficient .


    The cause and effect of what exactly ?
     
  22. river

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    My statement above has nothing to do with yours .
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    In the long run it is.
    That's why they are an endangered species.
    Of the interaction between relational values inherent in the component parts, such as the atomic values of interacting elements which produce molecules with the own compound relational values.

    Human maths are only the symbolic translation of these mathematical processes, but regardless of the human symbols used, the mathematics exist in their own abstract form.
    IMO, the effectiveness of mathematics is proof of the inherent mathematical essence of physics and physical objects.
     

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