Does reincarnation exist?

[Xelasnave.1947]

There is no such thing as death. You see people dying, I the death of your body as the liberation of your spirit

Why don't you step in front of a bus so as to liberate your spirit and tell us how that goes for you.

What annoys me is all these funeral places promoting the myth that death is a real thing not to mention life insurance companies paying out money on non events...how do you exclude reality that is so well evidenced...Tell me this why dont you just step in front of a bus ? I will tell you why you wont ..because you know you will die and you fear death so much that you say it does not exist.

They say death is horrible, it goes on for ever and you are trapped in pain but you can't see or hear and you feel like you are starving and nothing ends the pain.

I would be terrified of dieing if I were you.
Really all that is true a bloke at the pub with a stick told me and he should know..he had a stick for goodness sake.

Further do you stop to think how offensive your crazy lie is to folk who have lost a loved one?

You simply can not say there is no such thing as death.

If you wish to propose that there is a spirit that leaves the body after death although delusional and unsupported folk who have recently lost people close to them will be less offended.

What do you find about reality so frightening that you can not go near it?

Alex

 

[paddoboy]

There is no such thing as death. You see people dying, I the death of your body as the liberation of your spirit. I cant remember before I was born, as I cant physically see into the future.

Keep living your dream matey!

 

[elte]

Possibly people came up with the idea of reincarnation because of instinct. Instinctive memories form in the brains of offspring as brains develop. They're basically vague low-specificity memories enencoded in the DNA instructions for growing a brain.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Thought experiment:
Say, 2000 years ago there lived a man with an imaginary genetic code of:
1957645423178-9087089000897645321...
He lived , he died.. ok no big deal. No one special. Just a guy who probably was a peasant living off the land.
Then 2000 years later a male child is born, say in the year 2020 with the same identical or very similar genetic code:
1957645423178-9087089000897645321...

Is the new born with the same code the same person as the one who had died 2000 years ago?
Does the new born include genetic memory that could haunt him with so called past life notions and experiences etc?
Can that new born be considered as the reincarnation of the man who lived and died 2000 years prior?

There is a popular sci fi movie called Jupiter Ascending that I think deals with this thought experiment.
A woman is hunted because she is unknowingly the natural born "recombination", "recurrence" or rebirth of a dead royal's DNA. ( or something like that)

How plausible do you think?

 

[DaveC426913]

Science has to draw a line at some point with how much they are unwilling to believe. You dont even need religion (necessarily) but if you dont believe at all you dont truly know, and if you dont know at all you dont know what faith is or whether you do or do not. Thus creating the faith-knowledge complex.

None of that addresses my point.

You said:
"Reincarnation is more likely that being dead for the rest of time. Can you imagine how scary that is?"

So why do you say that reincarnation "more likely" than eternal death? The only explanation you offer is that eternal death is "scary". What effect would how we feel about a phenomenon have on the probability of that phenomenon being real?

 

[DaveC426913]

There is no such thing as death.

Of course there is. When you squish a bug it stops living. When you drown a human it stops living.

You see people dying, I the death of your body as the liberation of your spirit.

Even if we were to grant your notion of a spirit (for which you have no evidence), death is the still the cessation of your corporeal body.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

eternal death is "scary"

It sure is and kx100 should while waiting to drop off to sleep at night...each night every night..think of nothing else than just how bad it will be in real life..er real death. ..in fact given most people die in their sleep it's probably best to avoid dropping off...you don't want to wake up dead.

The big thing to worry about however is when you are reincarnated the odds are against coming back as a human but given the numbers most likey just an animal ..if you are lucky...given the number of germs that is what you will be...being born as a human is a once in a life time event.

How plausible do you think?

It is just as plausible as any other make believe in fact I bet there are folk out there who think the movie is a documentary.

Alex

 

[Quantum Quack]

in fact I bet there are folk out there who think the movie is a documentary.

lol

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

lol

Charlton Heston appeared in many documentaries.
Alex

 

[Quantum Quack]

Charlton Heston appeared in many documentaries.
Alex

I guess I should have known that any attempt to discuss recurrent DNA as a statistical probability to explain the possible science behind what some have intuitively referred to as reincarnation would invoke such a response here at sciforums...

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

I guess I should have known that any attempt to discuss recurrent DNA as a statistical probability to explain the possible science behind what some have intuitively referred to as reincarnation would invoke such a response here at sciforums...

I ran the possibilities in my head and it was 3,000 to the power of eleventhy three short of infinity which is like saying impossible however one would need to check my calculations.
And of course no matter how high the probability is against something does not exclude it happening.
But in truth the movie is fiction and fiction is evil ...everyone knows that.

It must be terrible for you down there not being able to get out and go somewhere but I suppose there is little to see in Melbourne after you have seen the pub down there...stay safe.
Alex

 

[Quantum Quack]

I ran the possibilities in my head and it was 3,000 to the power of eleventhy three short of infinity which is like saying impossible however one would need to check my calculations.
And of course no matter how high the probability is against something does not exclude it happening.
But in truth the movie is fiction and fiction is evil ...everyone knows that.

It must be terrible for you down there not being able to get out and go somewhere but I suppose there is little to see in Melbourne after you have seen the pub down there...stay safe.
Alex

Statistical limitations:
I guess one could say that the probability of the planet Earth existing as it does is similar, yet the fact is the chances of such a miracle are 100%.... because it does indeed exist as it does.

As you know DNA matching is not fool proof. The chances of having a "double" or "twin" out there in the wild is quite high. ( 1 in a billion I think is the estimate used by the courts (?) )
However if you take into account that there are about 8 billion people on this planet (this gives us 8 people out of 8 billion) and calculate how many people have been born and died over a few thousand years...the chances of having a "double" or "twin" over time could be calculated to be quite high.
So the chances of a "double"or "twin " being born sometime into the future for any one, is quite conceivable if not a definite probability.
As a aside, you might be surprised to know that there are even cases of chimera DNA and while very rare are very much a significant statistical possibility.
It is also worth noting that our understanding of the human genome is still in it's infancy so discounting the hypothesis of recurrent DNA as mere fantasy would be a little premature. IMO
===
Yes here in Melbourne it has been tough. For some .. very tough indeed. We just completed 30 days of level 4 restrictions including a curfew with officially an expected 14 days more to go. How ever what happens will be yet to be determined.
We in Melbourne can only hope that the other states especially NSW and QLD can manage to contain this bug before having to join us in these somewhat draconian restrictions.
I personally am coping reasonably well. Thank you for your concern and hope that you are also coping with the situation as you face it.

edit:
"To win a raffle with odds of 1: infinity the odds are really 50/50. You either win it or you don't" ~Anon

 

[Quantum Quack]

Charlton Heston appeared in many documentaries.
Alex

you May be referring to one of his movies, Soylent Green.
Cannibalism has long been a last resort method of survival. Industrializing it makes perfect sense and something the re-cycler's of this world may consider ethical in the not too distant future.

 

[Seattle]

Statistical limitations:
I guess one could say that the probability of the planet Earth existing as it does is similar, yet the fact is the chances of such a miracle are 100%.... because it does indeed exist as it does.

As you know DNA matching is not fool proof. The chances of having a "double" or "twin" out there in the wild is quite high. ( 1 in a billion I think is the estimate used by the courts (?) )
However if you take into account that there are about 8 billion people on this planet (this gives us 8 people out of 8 billion) and calculate how many people have been born and died over a few thousand years...the chances of having a "double" or "twin" over time could be calculated to be quite high.
So the chances of a "double"or "twin " being born sometime into the future for any one, is quite conceivable if not a definite probability.
As a aside, you might be surprised to know that there are even cases of chimera DNA and while very rare are very much a significant statistical possibility.
It is also worth noting that our understanding of the human genome is still in it's infancy so discounting the hypothesis of recurrent DNA as mere fantasy would be a little premature. IMO
===
Yes here in Melbourne it has been tough. For some .. very tough indeed. We just completed 30 days of level 4 restrictions including a curfew with officially an expected 14 days more to go. How ever what happens will be yet to be determined.
We in Melbourne can only hope that the other states especially NSW and QLD can manage to contain this bug before having to join us in these somewhat draconian restrictions.
I personally am coping reasonably well. Thank you for your concern and hope that you are also coping with the situation as you face it.

edit:
"To win a raffle with odds of 1: infinity the odds are really 50/50. You either win it or you don't" ~Anon

There's a reason that quote is anonymous don't you think?

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

miracle

I have grave problems with this word given the implications.

I guess one could say that the probability of the planet Earth existing

We can not determine the probability simply as we don't have all the data.

The planet count goes up and up and the number of planets that are considered much like Earth is very high...but we don't know how many yet therefore we are unable to construct meaningful probability models but whatever the outcome "miracle" is entirely inappropriate to describe whatever we find.

As you know DNA matching is not fool proof.

No I did not know that...thank you.

However if you take into account that there are about 8 billion people on this planet (this gives us 8 people out of 8 billion) and calculate how many people have been born and died over a few thousand years...the chances of having a "double" or "twin" over time could be calculated to be quite high.

Insurance companies probably would have reliable figures as premiums are worked out on probabilities where real inputs are made.

It is also worth noting that our understanding of the human genome is still in it's infancy so discounting the hypothesis of recurrent DNA as mere fantasy would be a little premature. IMO

I don't know I only started learning biology a week ago and only yesterday learnt how to take a DNA sample...I have not done it yet...all one will see with the microscope I have in mind is the strand like structure...it is an interesting subject but at the moment I am trying to learn about cells and how they manage protons and electrons...the electron transfer I think they call it...mmm and I need not to forget about differential geometry..that is overwhelming if you hesitate every time you hear something you don't understand..but I try to get an overview so at least I know what is going on...at the moment they are going thru formulas to show how to describe a curve...one should try to learn new things...but I do like old things like history..early microbes, early life, extinctions, hominids, early humans, evolution of society and civilization, wars, etc...just the usual stuff really.

you May be referring to one of his movies, Soylent Green.

No not at all.

Cannibalism has long been a last resort method of survival.

Dinner is everywhere and it's easy to catch so one wonders why it is not more popular.

There probably will be some resistance to buying human mince, which is odd as you can bet folk would reject it without trying it in their favourite recipes. Putting human remains in compost bins seems sensible to return at least some of the nuitriment they took from the planet...at least sprinkle ashes over plantation forests to help benefit trees designed to offer carbon sinking opportunity.

"To win a raffle with odds of 1: infinity the odds are really 50/50. You either win it or you don't" ~Anon

Now I know you posted this as a joke but unfortunately it has triggered one of my pet hates...I hate silly sayings and quotes that sound clever by often describe a situation opposite to reality.

The quote you posted sounds clever but it is an outrageous lie..oh how it ticks me off when I think how many folk will laugh casually totally ignoring the fact that the statement is very wrong from various angles...I should not have joked about infinity earlier so I won't address that aspect but treat it as if we are dealing with a real high number that is for the purpose of calculation quantifiable...the odds are not 50/50 ..I am too overcome with outrage to explain further ..sorry.

that you are also coping with the situation as you face it.

I am coping well, I have experienced what we call cabin crazy so many times it now seems to be the norm..you won't believe this but I think I have a touch of it as I find I do not wish to go out at all..maybe it is fear of the virus but I think it is more than that...

Alex

 

[kx000]

Why don't you step in front of a bus so as to liberate your spirit and tell us how that goes for you.

What annoys me is all these funeral places promoting the myth that death is a real thing not to mention life insurance companies paying out money on non events...how do you exclude reality that is so well evidenced...Tell me this why dont you just step in front of a bus ? I will tell you why you wont ..because you know you will die and you fear death so much that you say it does not exist.

They say death is horrible, it goes on for ever and you are trapped in pain but you can't see or hear and you feel like you are starving and nothing ends the pain.

I would be terrified of dieing if I were you.
Really all that is true a bloke at the pub with a stick told me and he should know..he had a stick for goodness sake.

Further do you stop to think how offensive your crazy lie is to folk who have lost a loved one?

You simply can not say there is no such thing as death.

If you wish to propose that there is a spirit that leaves the body after death although delusional and unsupported folk who have recently lost people close to them will be less offended.

What do you find about reality so frightening that you can not go near it?

Alex

My religion is centered around life. In reality I can tell you trust is asserted, and hope is a fundamental.

 

[kx000]

None of that addresses my point.

You said:
"Reincarnation is more likely that being dead for the rest of time. Can you imagine how scary that is?"

So why do you say that reincarnation "more likely" than eternal death? The only explanation you offer is that eternal death is "scary". What effect would how we feel about a phenomenon have on the probability of that phenomenon being real?

There would be eternity, but you wouldnt experience it. You shouldnt be skeptical to life.

 

[kx000]

Of course there is. When you squish a bug it stops living. When you drown a human it stops living.



Even if we were to grant your notion of a spirit (for which you have no evidence), death is the still the cessation of your corporeal body.

Death is unreal especially when you consider there will always be energy and thus time so it's safe to believe that if there are only so many natures we could at the very least come and go forever.

 

[DaveC426913]

...believe...

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

My religion is centered around life. In reality I can tell you trust is asserted, and hope is a fundamental.

Rather than continue to waffle on and present loose references to what I presume is your attempt to inject virtues for observation rather than discussion could you not think about the nonsense you stated, upon which I did comment, and either confirm to me you maintain your view that there is no such thing as death or perhaps adjust your words such that they attempt to recognise reality in that humans do die and at least reduce the arguement to the existence of a spirit or soul.
Your religion can be centered around life if that is the way you interpret things but you can not successfully claim death does not exist...
Alex