Abortion and the Death Penalty

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Cazzo, Jul 18, 2008.

?

I am :

  1. For abortion and for the death penalty.

    16 vote(s)
    41.0%
  2. Against abortion and against the death penalty.

    3 vote(s)
    7.7%
  3. Against abortion and for the death penalty.

    11 vote(s)
    28.2%
  4. For abortion and against the death penalty.

    8 vote(s)
    20.5%
  5. Not sure.

    1 vote(s)
    2.6%
  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    24,276
    Not just vocabulary but reality is involved - it's not a baby yet. And actual human life often matters far more than "potential" anything - the actual human life involved here is the woman's.
    No one treats an early stage miscarriage as they do the death of a child. The only time an early stage embryo is treated as a child by anyone in practice, is when a woman wants an abortion.

    You won't find a cemetary with a large section (it would be something like a fifth of the graves by number) devoted to early miscarriages, for example.
    Nope. But I don't see a chicken, or a child, either. And neither does anyone else, except in one circumstance - abortion.

    Human life is not a mechanical thing, switched on like a light bulb at some magic moment, and everyone knows this whenever they aren't trying to make sure a woman isn't getting away with irresponsible sex.
    That alleged belief, regarding an early stage embryo, is never revealed by action or societal custom in any other circumstance than abortion. So who is actually fooling themselves ?

    tangent: pharmacists are licensed, given a monopoly, and ethically as well as professionally bound to fill a doctor's prescriptions for what the doctor considers the welfare of the patient. There are all kinds of jobs people can't do for moral, ethical, or religious reasons - if pharmacist is one of them, said person should find different employment. And any pharmacist who denies prescribed pharmaceuticals and betrays a patient in need should have their license revoked, at least.
     
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  3. lepustimidus Banned Banned

    Messages:
    979
    ice:
    No they aren't.
     
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  5. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    they are legally bound to fill scripts as part of there licence agreement
    they are legally bound to provide pharmacy only meds unless there is a MEDICAL reason not to as part of there licence agreement
     
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  7. lepustimidus Banned Banned

    Messages:
    979
    No they aren't. That's not the case in the United States or Australia (as far as I'm aware).

    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/01/1072908839357.html

     
  8. Enmos Staff Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    And thus deciding what medicines people can use.

    No it isn't. He should get another job then.
     
  9. lepustimidus Banned Banned

    Messages:
    979
    Enmos:
    Again, if a pharamacist refuses to sell a particular medicine, then the customer need merely shop elsewhere. Pharmacists who refuse to sell the morning after pill are few and far between, so it's hardly an issue.

    No he shouldn't. Business owners should (and can) choose to deny services if it so pleases them. You don't like it? Tough fucking shit. Go shop elsewhere. How dare you dictate to any business owner as to what services they must provide, especially when they have ethical qualms about doing so.
     
  10. Enmos Staff Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Shop elsewhere ? Wtf ?
    I think he could loose his job in my country. That shit is government regulated.
    I don't know what kind of weird pharmacies you have over there.. :shrug:
     
  11. DeepThought Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,461

    Human lives are frequently sacrificed in the cause of something which has only 'potential'; democracy in Iraq, for example, or any large scale engineering project. Every year large numbers of people die on building sites all around the world. A technician was killed in an accident during construction of the Large Hadron Collider, for example, and how many have died in endeavors like the space program? Road deaths are another good example of humans dieing simply because there is some potential benefit perceived in them being somewhere else.

    Life is all about becoming.


    Are they separate? According to you:


    Presumably, then, the emergence of the child from the womb does not cause some miraculous transformation in the child's biology, but is simply a continuation of the same life which begun there.

    I think it's good you are exploring your reptilian hind brain.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  12. Sciencelovah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,349
    Bells, I didn't have time to post yesterday, sorry for the slow response.

    This one first:


    According to my religion (Quran & Hadist, in which I based all my judgment),
    if I see something wrong, I should try to stop it with my hand; If I can't, I
    should stop it with my tongue; If I can't do that either, I should at least
    disagree by heart, which is the weakest form of faith.

    Hence, if other woman say she will do abortion, I will never show my agreement
    even if I can't say it. To hell with respect. Those who earn respect are the
    one who deserve it.
     
  13. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    inzomnia i wouldnt really trust the quran, after all acording to james list if a person remains friends with a rapist they surport rape and as mohumad was a pediphile who every suports the quran or mohumad is a surporter of pedophila. not exactly got the moral high ground there
     
  14. Sciencelovah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,349
    Bells, James R.,


    When I talked about playing God, I refer to terminating life. Terminating life
    is the privilege of God. You are not allow to abort your baby, just as it is
    forbidden to do suicide.

    James, about the free will, I do believe that God grants me free will, but only
    to limited extent. Terminating life, choosing sex gender, choosing your biological
    parent aren't among free will.

    I do have free will in other things. I can choose to study or to be lazy, to work
    or to be lazy, to maintain my health or to be careless, etc. bearing all the
    consequences.

    Something like that. No free will there.
     
  15. Sciencelovah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,349

    Whether you call it fetus or baby, they are all just names. You do know that it is
    a growing life, a potential different individual. Do you actually expect that an
    embryo suddenly becomes a baby in one night? It needs to go through stages
    of development.

    As for you do not believe in spirit, I have said earlier that discussing it with atheist
    is pretty useless. We can't possibly understand each other's points of view.
     
  16. Sciencelovah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,349
    I agree with you there. If I would run a restaurant business, I will never sell pork,
    for example, because it against my belief. But if a homosexual will eat in my restaurant,
    I will welcome him, as long as he doesn't order pork.

    If I am a doctor and a homosexual ask medical advice to support his sexual
    activity, I will refuse him. Even if I should lose my job.
     
  17. Sciencelovah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,349
    That could be discuss in a different thread.
     
  18. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    you wont just lose your job, you would lose your licence and go to jail under 2 different pieces of legislation

    1 being the antidiscrimination act, the other being the act which controls doctors because to refuse treatment to ANYONE in need even if your off duty or they cant pay it is a breach of the requirements which you agree to when you get your medical licence.

    The only doctors who are exempt from this is are interns
     
  19. Sciencelovah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,349
    To insist me to support homosexual activity in that case will be the same with
    if I insist you to pray in mosque. Here is a news: I am not a doctor.
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    I've never known anyone who had a miscarriage who did not think they had lost a child. Have you?
     
  21. sniffy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,945
    As a women is the one responsible for what goes on in her body then she is the one who should make all the decisions about it.

    All other arguments are therefore moot.
     
  22. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,631

    But the issue is that you are balancing the rights of the the fetus and the mother. The fetus is a "potential individual" as you say, and the mother is (ignoring potential bizarre hypotheticals) an "actual individual." In that calculation, there is a strong argument for holding the rights of the actual individual to be superior to those of the potntial individuals.

    I mean, why stop there? Why not outlaw contraception, since a sperm and an egg, taken together, also form a "potential person." In fact, that's why the Catholics are against birth control...it inhibits the development (and rights) of potential people, by preventing fertilization.

    A "potential" person is not a person any more than an egg is a chicken.
     
  23. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,346
    *************
    M*W: I don't know where you got this information, but in Texas abortion is permitted up to 26 weeks. In Kansas and California, it's okay anytime. I don't know about the other states. However, the prenatal ultrasound determines the gestational age, and that can be manipulated somewhat give or take a week or so. There are some cases where an aborted fetus cries and takes it's first breath. I've known that in some of those cases, the physician would bash the newborn child's head on the counter to kill it or pierce the brain and pull it out with forceps. I wish I could take them all home with me, but it doesn't work that way. In an abortion clinic, you never want to hear a baby cry.

    And a woman should never attempt an abortion before the sixth week as the embryo is too small to successfully terminate.
     

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