# A Livable Minimum Wage

1. ### VociferousValued Senior Member

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Nothing I've found says anything about that "minimum standard" applying to "two-income households". That would seem odd considering most households at the time were single-income.

3. ### SeattleValued Senior Member

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Minimum wage as a concept doesn't make economic sense in the first place. If society wants to accomplish something similar (better) it would involve raising taxes and redistributing income in the form of a minimum income for those below a certain level.

A minimum wage doesn't accomplish much. It reduces employment opportunities, causes prices to rise and ultimately doesn't do much for the person receiving the minimum wage.

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5. ### VociferousValued Senior Member

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There's that. Raising the cost of doing business raises the cost of products and services, which those on minimum wage must then purchase.

7. ### river

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Disagree

Minimum wage is about distributing greed . Greed has no minimum , it just grows .

The prices rise ONLY because the business wants to hold the line on profits .

What is clearly NOT considered is this , the more money people have in their pockets the more they spend , hence the more profits businesses make . Clear business logic .

Business is circle , not a straight line .

Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
8. ### SeattleValued Senior Member

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There has to be a profit however. Try opening a small business in the kinds of businesses where they pay the minimum wage. There aren't a lot of profits. I'm guessing you can't open a fast food restaurant selling hamburgers and pay $15/hr to every employee and still stay in business for long. Certainly if you do stay in business you will find ways to use less employees and you will be very picky about which employees you do pick. You will probably get college educated employees who are temporarily out of work. The kind of person that you think will benefit from a$15/hr minimum wage will probably not be who benefits.

9. ### river

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Any business , small business , especially , needs and/or should seek professional help. Develop a business plan .

Marketing , location will help any business BEFORE they open .

Profits are important , but for a small business that should already be accounted for .

Further

The multi-billion businesses such as MC , Walmart etc . These are the businesses that the minimum wage targets more than any .

10. ### SeattleValued Senior Member

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This post is jibberish. Profits should already be accounted for? What does that even mean. They can be accounted for until you double the minimum wage and then, potentially, there are no profits.

Being big, don't make economics not apply. Have you seen the people who work in Walmart? If the wages go up dramatically they will all be replaced by better employees.

11. ### river

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Business plan Seattle , business plan , with the minimum wage accounted for .

Hmmm...what are you implying ?

12. ### SeattleValued Senior Member

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Two things. One, that you don't know what you are talking about

and two, that there are a lot of people out of work and some aren't hire-able at $15/hr. 13. ### SeattleValued Senior Member Messages: 8,288 Do you have a problem with the same market pricing that works for everything else? 14. ### river Messages: 17,307 What don't I know ? The same people that are not hire-able now . 15. ### river Messages: 17,307 Such as ? 16. ### SeattleValued Senior Member Messages: 8,288 Just saying "Business Plan" is meaningless. Having a business plan doesn't make an unprofitable situation profitable. Regarding some of those currently employed at Walmart (for example) or anywhere else. Those that are just barely worth it at the current minimum wage aren't going to continue to be employable at$15/hr. as I pointed out earlier. Better qualified employees will be available at $15/hr. 17. ### SeattleValued Senior Member Messages: 8,288 When you buy a car, you go to where you get the best price. When you can't get a lower price, the car has been priced by the market. When you get a job, if it terms aren't good enough, you go elsewhere. If you can't get a better deal elsewhere, that job has been priced by the market. Why should it be any different at the bottom end of the market? You can't dictate a wage without there being an effect elsewhere. Some businesses will go out of business, some will become more efficient with fewer workers and some workers won't be worth$15/hr.

That might be because it's their first job, they aren't very good at what they do, they aren't personable, they don't show up on time, whatever. There is some room for these people at $9 an hour where they can get experience that there isn't room for at$15/hr.

There's only so much that you can pay someone to stand there and operate a cash register.

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20. ### iceauraValued Senior Member

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What are you trying to say? That seems to make no sense.
The price of labor is not always - or even normally - set by a "market", in that sense. There is some market influence, but it's often marginal. And it's missing not only at the bottom, but even more flagrantly at the top - does anyone still believe upper level executive compensation is set by competitive market negotiation in the US?
If you look at the workforce earning 9 in your town, you will see lots of people who obviously aren't working in their first job, or lacking in basic life skills. Unless you live in a very unusual town.
There is no pool of better employees sitting around waiting for the wages to go up at Walmart.
That is only partly true - some of the hike is real gain, pocketed by the employee. But it does factor in - which is part of why a minimum income setup works better.

The problem with a minimum wage is that is is a wage.

21. ### billvonValued Senior Member

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Yep. It would also have other pretty dire consequences for businesses. In any economy, you can't just adjust one thing and have it have no other effect - especially when it comes to something as critical as labor pricing.

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22. ### VociferousValued Senior Member

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You said that minimum wage "was originally set to enable a single 40hr job to support a family at the poverty line."
The FLSA only mentions minimum standards of living, with no mention of a family (other than most of it not applying to immediate family members).
And even though you said it was meant to "support a family at the poverty line", there's no mention of poverty, or any similar metric, in the FLSA.
When I asked you about those minimum standards, you brought up two-income households. Why? I don't know, considering most households were single-income in 1938.

https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/statutes/FairLaborStandAct.pdf

23. ### zgmcRegistered Senior Member

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Lets say that I make roughly $40 an hour as a skilled cabinetmaker. All of a sudden the minimum wage takes a jump to$15 per hour. The cost of everything is going to increase with it, right? So, now I will have to increase my prices, or I will be taking an involuntary pay cut.. Raising the minimum wage that drastically will likely hurt the middle class.