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Thread: Translation & Muslims

  1. #321
    kodummu oturturum azizbey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildBlueYonder View Post
    Like? oh, how about the rituals involved in hajj, are they purely islamic or pre-islamic?

    what are the duties at hajj?

    does using pagan influenced rituals invalidate hajj (via shirk)

    allah, was he a moon god, code named "hubal"?

    allah, what happened to his daughters?

    allah, what happened to his wife?

    who was allah, prior to Mohammad? because he apparently existed in pre-islamic arab culture for Mohammad's father to have been named "Abdullah", yes or no?

    what's housed in the kaa'ba? & how is it venerated?

    take your time, if you use quranic &/or musliim sources, please reference
    according to tradition, Kaba was built by Adam, the first human and prophet, and then rebuilt by Abraham and rebuilt at the same location by many others.
    it had been existed way before Muhammad (pbuh)
    the reason muslims perform prayers in arabic, is that to create common ground among muslims, and even if you go to a mosque in any other country, of course when you do your personal prayers, use any language you want.
    inside of Kaaba i empty, it is a cube shape building , (kaaba means cube in arabic) it is where all muslims face during prayer, but it is not the building is worshipped, that would be blasphemy
    Allah , as one God, existed in pre Mohammad (pbuh) times, of course, it is the God of Abraham, Davis, Jesus, Moses, Adam, etc... as muslims believes
    Allah doesnt have any family members.
    hope i answered your "honest"questions
    regards

  2. #322
    WildBlueYonder
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by azizbey View Post
    according to tradition, Kaba was built by Adam, the first human and prophet,
    interesting, so according to what Islamic tradition says, that would by inductive reasoning, mean that the Hiraz was the site of the Garden of Eden?

    Interesting, which would also mean that that was the site of man’s fall from grace, the site of man’s first sin, the area now punished by God as a desert, but that explains the oil, buried beneath the sands are the remnants of the Garden of Eden, turned into oil, that we burn, burning what God had made as a help for mankind, because of our sins becomes instead a burnt offering to the devil, condemning ourselves with greenhouse gases to global warming that will help destroy our civilization, thus full circle, we are cast once again from ‘eden’ into hell

  3. #323
    WildBlueYonder
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by azizbey View Post
    according to tradition, Kaba was built by Adam, the first human and prophet,
    that would make kabaa pretty old, that would also place Adam in Arabia
    Problem=” according to tradition, Kaba was built by Adam”, that is a wonderful fantastic claim, but a tradition, how would we know that it did not just follow the tradition of men?
    Problem= kabaa has been rebuilt many times, what was the original structure? Is there any remnant? Or was the entire original destroyed, no evidence?
    Problem= Adam is not considered a prophet, otherwise he would not have listened to Eve & sinned, he was only a man

    and then rebuilt by Abraham and rebuilt at the same location by many others. .
    there is no evidence that Abraham ever made it that far south, why are the tombs of the patriarchs up near Hebron in Israel? Abraham was not a good father, he abandoned his firstborn Ishmael, as a favor to his favorite wife, her son Yitzhak = “Laughter”
    It may have been by tradition Adam’s sanctuary, but why was it called kabaa (cube), & not Haram Masjid al-Adom,? So, was the tradition before Mohammad or after?

    it had been existed way before Muhammad (pbuh) .
    that a sanctuary existed there, is no doubt, the doubt is to who was it dedicated in the first place? And thereafter until Mohammad came along?

    the reason muslims perform prayers in arabic, is that to create common ground among muslims, and even if you go to a mosque in any other country, of course when you do your personal prayers, use any language you want.
    But you may need to see it from the point of view of a conquered people, when islam first came into the world, it was a peaceful religion, but after the Hijra Mohammad used his newly acquired power to rob the Meccan caravans, then the sword was islam’s first mission statement, its missionaries , the generals:
    • Khalid ibn al-Walid - 592-642, Arab general, undefeated in over 100 battles against both the Roman and Persian empires
    • Zirrar ibn al-Azwar - Brilliant Muslim warrior under Rashidun Caliphate, often referred as half naked warrior, because of his act of fighting with out armor and shirt in the battle field.
    • Qa'qa ibn al-Amr - Brilliant Muslim warrior under Rashidun Caliphate, was part of Muslim conquest of Persia and Roman Syria.
    • Muhammad bin Qasim, (695-715). An early Arab General who captured Sindh in the Indian subcontinent.
    • Tariq ibn-Ziyad, (d. 720) . An Umayyad Amazigh general, who swept Hispania with Muslim army.


    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_soldiers
    inside of Kaaba i empty, it is a cube shape building , (kaaba means cube in arabic) it is where all muslims face during prayer, but it is not the building is worshipped, that would be blasphemy
    ahh, but looks like at least 5 acts of blasphemy are dome by many pilgrims, apparently under the noses of the religious authorities; kiss the stone, pray at the graves of Ishmael & Hagar, look at the footprints of Abraham, throw stones at the ‘devil’ and worship at a pagan site
    In the Eastern corner about 5 feet above ground the Hajar al-Aswad (The Black stone) is fixed into the wall. Its real nature is difficult to determine, its visible shape is worn smooth by hand touching and kissing. Its diameter is around 12 inches. Opposite the Northwest wall but not connected with it, is a semi circular wall of white marble. It is 3 feet high and about 5 feet thick. This semi circular space enjoys an especial consideration and pilgrims wait in queue to find a place to pray there. The graves of Ishmael (p.b.u.h.) and his mother Hager (p.b.u.h.) are within this semi circular wall (Hateem). Between the archway and the facade (N.E.) is a little building with a small dome, the Maqam-e-Ibrahim. Inside it is kept a stone bearing the prints of two human feet. Prophet Abraham (p.b.u.h.) is said to have stood on this stone when building the Kaaba and marks of his feet are miraculously preserved. On the outskirts of the building to the Northeast is the 'Zamzam Well' (this is now put under ground).
    http://www.ezsoftech.com/hajj/hajj_article1.asp
    Allah , as one God, existed in pre Mohammad (pbuh) times, of course, it is the God of Abraham, Davis, Jesus, Moses, Adam, etc... as muslims believes
    none of those ever spoke of allah; Abraham knew God as Elohim, El Elyon, Moses & David as YHWH, Yahweh, or in English “ I AM”, Jesus called Him Abba. Why did no Jew or early Christian ever name their child; Abdullah, or Mohammad ( a name some say was never used until Mohammad came along, that supposedly means “Praised” in arabic, is that true?)

    Christisns & Jews have many ancient samples of the Bible that are witnesses to that, over 600 years prior to Mohammad, see below

    Dead Sea Scrolls:
    http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea....y/library.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls
    http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/

    Allah doesnt have any family members.
    But he did, it was a messy divorce, Mecca had to be subdued by force, then the rest of the Arabian Peninsula, before the divorce was enforced by the Ridda wars
    The Goddesses Al-Uzza, Al-Lat and Menat formed a triad in pre-Islamic Arabia. They were widely worshipped: from Nabatean Petra in the North to the legendary Kingdoms of Arabia Felix in the South, including Saba, the Biblical Sheba; as far east as Iran and Palmyra; and the three of them were very popular Goddesses in Mecca at the time of Mohammed. From left they are: Al-Uzza, whose name means "The Mighty One", the Goddess of the Morning Star; Al-Lat, the Mother, whose name means simply "The Goddess", as Al-Lah simply means "The God"; and Manat, Crone-goddess of Fate or Time. Sometimes the three of them are referred to as the daughters of Al-Lah; sometimes Manat and Al-Lat are considered daughters of Al-Uzza.
    from: http://www.thaliatook.com/AMGG/arabtriple.html
    also, that’s why the term “satanic verses” has been around prior to Salmon Rushdie, because in a moment of weakness Mohammad gave into the Meccans.
    Satanic Verses is an expression coined by the historian Sir William Muir in reference to several verses allegedly delivered by Muhammad as part of the Qur'ān and later retracted. Muslims refer to the delivery and retraction of the two verses as the Gharaniq incident. Narratives involving these verses can be read in, among other places, the biographies of Muhammad by al-Wāqidī, Ibn Sa'd, al-Tabarī, and Ibn Ishaq (the latter as reconstructed by Alfred Guillaume).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Verses
    hope i answered your "honest"questions
    regards
    Yes, I know that you gave “honest” answers, the ones you know are true. But how do you know for sure that they are true? How do you test them or other items? What is truth? hope they are, not just traditional anwsers you had to memorize?

    If you say, “because it is in the quran”, how do you know that it is true, there are errors in it & for something from allah that supposedly there is a ”Mother of the Book” in heaven, my question would be how do you believe a book that has been altered, edited & still has errors, could that be from God? Like; the Horned-one, where the sun sets, who is Mary related to, what Christians & Jews really believe, what Jesus’ name is, what God’s name is, just to start.

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