How do you feel about guns?

[wsionynw]

Actually it is real life, you know that thing the psychiatrist keep telling you about and that you should really get back to.

Perhaps in the US, although on a day to day basis I doubt it. I've never met a gang of muggers with street fighting skills, and even if I did, why would it be better to start shooting away than just hand over my wallet?
Perhaps if a ninja assassin entered my home with the intention of killing me, and Steven Seagal wasn't there to help then I'd be better off grabging my gun and blazing away?
Shit, you're right! This is soooooooooooo real life! Better get me an arsenal, that'll make things much safer. When I'm not shooting at people that may or may not pose a threat I could carry it around and settle road rage arguments with it.

[spuriousmonkey]

I Rio I was 'robbed' in the street at gunpoint. What I did was hand over some cash. And whatever they wanted.

The 'robbers' wouldn't have gone to desperate measures (robbing 5 Euros worth of cash) with a gun if their situation wasn't this desperate. Having a gun on me and pulling it would have resulted in casualties. Me. Having pulled a gun and shooting the perpetrators would have resulted in a change of tactics of the other muggers. They would shoot and take the money and leave the dangerous asking for the idiots.

No gun will ever solve the situation here. And neither does it in the USA.

Great inequality creates desperate people.

[Baron Max]

So, Spurious, are we to just keep letting robbers rob us ...without lifting a hand to stop them? Is that your solution to crime ....just let it happen 'cause it's desperate people who do it, and they were driven to it by the inequality in the world? ...and by giving them whatever money they ask for helps balance the inequality? We just keep making excuses/reasons for the criminal acts, then everything is okay?

Hmmm.

Baron Max

[Destroyer]

You would have pulled a gun on them?

[Baron Max]

You would have pulled a gun on them?

First, I don't believe that's the point of this discussion at all.

Second, I don't know what I'd have done in that situation because no one ever knows until they're fully into it!

But that's not answering my questions and points at all ....you're just bringing in bullshit so as to mask the very points of this discussion. Why?

Baron Max

[Neildo]

When I'm not shooting at people that may or may not pose a threat I could carry it around and settle road rage arguments with it.

Wow, what a moron. I'm sure glad YOU don't own a gun!

The 'robbers' wouldn't have gone to desperate measures (robbing 5 Euros worth of cash) with a gun if their situation wasn't this desperate.

Psssh, yeah right. If they're desperate, they'd rob a bank, not some $5 friggin' bucks from someone. Muggers mug all the time. They're lazy and won't get a job so they live a life of crime. They see how well it works and they continue to do so. That person would be better off begging for change than robbing tons of people for 5 bucks.

But either way, they decided to do the crime, so they have to suffer the consequences. That person can go beg for money, get a job, or whatever else. Nice to see yet another liberal trying to glorify crime making them out to be bigger victims than the victims of their crimes.

Having a gun on me and pulling it would have resulted in casualties. Me.

No it wouldn't have, unless you're not trained and are an idiotic gung-ho person blindly drawing your gun without any thought. That's something you just don't do. You wait for the opportune moment. You guys make some crazy careless assumptions.

No gun will ever solve the situation here. And neither does it in the USA.

Sure it does. Each year here, 1.5 to 2x the amount of crimes are prevented using guns vs crimes commited with em. You won't even stop gun crimes, so good luck with that, but you sure as heck can help prevent em by putting the odds in your favor with one.

Having pulled a gun and shooting the perpetrators would have resulted in a change of tactics of the other muggers. They would shoot and take the money and leave the dangerous asking for the idiots.

LoL, yea right. It sure hasn't changed their tactics yet for all the crimes that have been prevented thanks to concealed carry permits.

Great inequality creates desperate people.

Yeah, which is exactly the reason for having guns for a defensive purpose. Someone mugging you is gonna have the odds in their favor. Someone mugging you with a weapon is going to put the odds in their favor even more since most victims are unarmed. With the victims that are armed where most assulters assume the victim isn't armed, the odds are highly in their favor now.

You would have pulled a gun on them?

For 5 euros? Nope, I wouldn't. And that's the thing you learn when training. You can't just pull out a gun any ol' frickin time you want to like some of you idiots are assuming. Yeah, let's pull it out during road rage, what a moronic and ignorant statement, lol. Even when defending your home with a gun, except in places like Texas, you have to show just cause of being quote, "deathly afraid for your life", unquote. Many people defending their homes have been thrown in jail for defending their homes, even when defending their family members.

But if my car was being stolen, or my wallet had tons of money in it from coming out of a Vegas casino or something, or if the assaulter was threatening me or someone with me aside from just wanting my wallet, you better be damned sure I'd blow that mofo away. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

- N

[lixluke]

The mind is more powerful that the gun. When people use guns, they have no need to develop their intellect because they use guns to get what they want. This leaves them at a disadvantage because those that do not have guns eventually develop their intellect. The intellect is the most powerful weapon. It can be use to control and manupulate the untillect. Intellects can manipulate the untillects into disarming. When it comes to guns versus intellects, intellects always win.

Guns are worthless for anything. They are worthless as protection. You cannot protect yourself with a gun because there will always be someody out there with a more powerful gun. And you cannot protect yourself with a more poweful gun because there will always be somebody out there with a well developed intellect that has no need for such mindless pointless objects.

[baumgarten]

Not if I have the most powerful gun in the world and I pull the trigger faster than your powerful intellect can do anything about it.

Of course, were that the case, today I would be called the president of the United States.

[Neildo]

Intellects can manipulate the untillects into disarming. When it comes to guns versus intellects, intellects always win.

I will pay you $5,000 to see that.

And no, you cannot tell the guy you'll split, or give him the full reward, if he puts down his weapon.

- N

[TW Scott]

The mind is more powerful that the gun. When people use guns, they have no need to develop their intellect because they use guns to get what they want. This leaves them at a disadvantage because those that do not have guns eventually develop their intellect. The intellect is the most powerful weapon. It can be use to control and manupulate the untillect. Intellects can manipulate the untillects into disarming. When it comes to guns versus intellects, intellects always win.

Small problem with this it is the true intellects who have guns and use them as they are intended, the untellects thingk up rubbish like the above. Thene there are the guillables who post it and believe it. Sure some people use the gun instead of ther brains, but even they see throught that bullshit.

Guns are worthless for anything. They are worthless as protection. You cannot protect yourself with a gun because there will always be someody out there with a more powerful gun. And you cannot protect yourself with a more poweful gun because there will always be somebody out there with a well developed intellect that has no need for such mindless pointless objects.

Okay, so in your world a brain protect you form a drug crazed mugger, rapists, grizzly bears, murderers, ganag bangers, and a host of other ill. In your world there is no hunting, no war, no crime, no police, and apparantly no need to protect yourself. Interesting world. Isn't it call Thorazine?

[Baron Max]

...those that do not have guns eventually develop their intellect.

Eventually? After how many of these "super intellects" are killed for being so stupid as to stand up to someone with a gun?

The intellect is the most powerful weapon. It can be use to control and manupulate the untillect.

So ...what ye're saying is that you want one group to have power over another group, right? Is that your idea of freedom and equality for people?

Guns are worthless for anything.

Guns are nothing but specialized tools. Would you take away other tools that you don't like? What about knives and clubs? Take them away, too?

I'm also curious ....what are you to do when one intellect is so much more powerful than all of the others? Would he then dominate all of the other intellects? And is that what you want? As a matter of fact, how could you stop him?

...there will always be somebody out there with a well developed intellect that has no need for such mindless pointless objects.

And just when does your Utopia begin? I mean, I'd like to sell my guns before they become totally useless, ya' know?

Baron Max

[Baron Max]

Okay, so in your world a brain protect you form a drug crazed mugger, rapists, grizzly bears, murderers, ganag bangers, and a host of other ill. In your world there is no hunting, no war, no crime, no police, and apparantly no need to protect yourself. Interesting world. Isn't it call Thorazine?

Perhaps everyone will be locked inside their own tiny little prison cell so that no one comes into contact with anything else ...in their entire existence. Pretty neat idea, huh? ...LOL!

Baron Max

[spuriousmonkey]

Psssh, yeah right. If they're desperate, they'd rob a bank, not some $5 friggin' bucks from someone. Muggers mug all the time. They're lazy and won't get a job so they live a life of crime. They see how well it works and they continue to do so. That person would be better off begging for change than robbing tons of people for 5 bucks.

This is not a hypotethical situation. This was a real life event.

so i fail to see where your 'yeah right' comes in place.

They do not rob banks because it is too risky. It is easier to rob tourists. Whether it meets your logical expectations is of no importance.

It is not as if I say something new here. The chances of being robbed on the street are quite high in Rio and Sao Paulo. The only reason you carry around a small wad of bills in an easily accessible pocket is because you don't want to be robbed and not carry anything. Then you will see the true meaning of desperation.

Besides the 5 euro worth of bills I had another stack of bills worth 30 euro in a not so accessible place. That's just how you go about there. Go out and don't be surprised to be robbed. 5 euros is a decent amount of money for the poor. There were 3 of us. It is a decent income for a poor desperate man in Rio.

The favelas are full of poor desperate people. It has nothing to do with being lazy. Just survival.

Rio de Janeiro continues to experience a high incidence of crime. Tourists are particularly vulnerable to street thefts and robberies in areas adjacent to all the main beaches in Rio. All incidents should be reported to the tourist police, who can be reached at tel. 511-5112.

All areas of Sao Paulo have a high rate of armed robbery of pedestrians and motorists at stoplights.

[Baron Max]

The chances of being robbed on the street are quite high in Rio and Sao Paulo. The only reason you carry around a small wad of bills in an easily accessible pocket is because you don't want to be robbed and not carry anything. Then you will see the true meaning of desperation.

So ....how can anyone not take that as fully condoning robbery? I mean, when you go out, you actually make plans to give the robbers something just because he accosts you?

And you don't consider that condoning criminal activity? And you also even excuse it because the robbers might be "desperate"? And then you go on to call armed robbery "just survival" ...as if it's expected, with you or others as the victims?!

Wow! That's all I can say .....wow!

Baron Max

[Neildo]

This is not a hypotethical situation. This was a real life event.

so i fail to see where your 'yeah right' comes in place.

My "pssh, yeah right" was in regards to your mugging being an "act of desperation".

Mugging works, so why not do it? You say how commonplace it is and don't act suprised when it happens. Heck, you even have a special wad to hand over when you fully expect it to happen.

Shit man, I outta go down there and start mugging people. It sounds like a profitable business and I sure won't be doing it out of desperation -- it's a golden opportunity. Reminds me of this rastafarian dude who used to beg for money only to get caught one day by the cops driving away in a BMW after he was finished.

Wow! That's all I can say .....wow!

Ditto.

- N

[Baron Max]

Shit man, I outta go down there and start mugging people. It sounds like a profitable business and I sure won't be doing it out of desperation -- it's a golden opportunity.

No, no! Ya' have to claim desperation, then liberal, lily-livered, doo-gooders will make all kinds of excuses for most anything that you do. And, hell, they'll even carry those extra wads of money for you! ...LOL!!

Reminds me of this rastafarian dude who used to beg for money only to get caught one day by the cops driving away in a BMW after he was finished.

The news show did a special on panhandling here in Dallas a few years ago and found numerous examples of that very thing happening! And the police said there was nothing that they could do about it ...it wasn't against the law at that time. Now panhandling is against the law in Dallas (even tho' the beggars don't actually get arrested ...but they do get hauled to a charity facility waaaay out of town!).

Baron Max

[TimeTraveler]

It seems to me that the dubious benefits of having a gun in your home are far outweighed by the dangers of having a gun in your home. They're a guaranteed way of elevating domestic assault to murder (so the argument that "they'd do it anyway" doesn't really wash):



And for added fun: Shootings of Children by Children

You make absolutely no sense with your twisted logic. Yes a gun can cause a manslaughter, but if someone attacks you, you have every right to defend yourself. It's better to put them in the hospital than to be put into the hospital, and thats basic logic. When in a them or you situation, choose them. Aim wisely.

[TimeTraveler]

I do not understand why people are anti gun. I'm not a huge fan of guns, but if a gun will save my life then I am a huge fan of guns, it's all situational. If I need a gun I'm a fan of them, if I don't need a gun then I'm not a fan of them, but because I know there could be a time where anyone could need a gun, I'm leaning towards being pro gun.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro murder. I don't think a gun shuold ever be used to murder people. A gun should only be used to defend yourself from being murdered.

If someone breaks into your home, or something threatens you, you shoot it and then you ask questions. If someone breaks into your home, you do not know if they are armed or not, you may not know who they are, or what they want, and you don't have time to ask either.

[wsionynw]

I do not understand why people are anti gun. I'm not a huge fan of guns, but if a gun will save my life then I am a huge fan of guns, it's all situational. If I need a gun I'm a fan of them, if I don't need a gun then I'm not a fan of them, but because I know there could be a time where anyone could need a gun, I'm leaning towards being pro gun.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro murder. I don't think a gun shuold ever be used to murder people. A gun should only be used to defend yourself from being murdered.

If someone breaks into your home, or something threatens you, you shoot it and then you ask questions. If someone breaks into your home, you do not know if they are armed or not, you may not know who they are, or what they want, and you don't have time to ask either.

Then by your logic we should all carry a gun all the time, just in case we need it. I doubt anyone would feel safe in the knowledge that every person around them was armed, since we cannot know the motives of every person around us.

[spuriousmonkey]

So ....how can anyone not take that as fully condoning robbery? I mean, when you go out, you actually make plans to give the robbers something just because he accosts you?

And you don't consider that condoning criminal activity? And you also even excuse it because the robbers might be "desperate"? And then you go on to call armed robbery "just survival" ...as if it's expected, with you or others as the victims?!

Wow! That's all I can say .....wow!

Baron Max

Maybe it is time for the people who are suprised to venture out in the world. It seems you have no clue what is going on in the world.