How do you feel about guns?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by lixluke, Jul 31, 2006.

?

Guns

  1. Have no place in this world. Should be abolished like slavery.

    33 vote(s)
    36.7%
  2. Are every human's right.

    57 vote(s)
    63.3%
  1. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    Do guns make the world a better place?
    Should the constitution really make it legal for people to bear arms?

    EDIT: Soth Park aside.

    EDIT:
    Not many people are very intelligent, so I will try to be as clear as I can and go as slow as I can for those who so not understand the basis of the gun debate.

    We are debating whether or not guns should be prohibited.
    (Production, Ownership, Use).
    Moreover, specifically designed weapons.
    Anything can be a weapon.
    However, a specifically designed weapon is an item specifically design to inflict injury on others. (Such as a gun, a sword, or even a rock refined and shaped for this purpose).
    We are not debating items that were not specifically designed to be weapons.
    If you do not believe a gun was specifically designed to inflict harm on others, you have no place in this debate.
    All pro-gun and anti-gun people know that guns were designed to inflict harm on others.
    Guns can be ethical or unethical regardless of this fact.
    Either way, the fact remains.

    What we are not discussing:
    Outlawing items that were not specifically designed by humans to be used as weapons.
    For example:
    Scissors
    Rocks (natural or refined for other purposes)
    Paper
    Glue
    Pencil
    Cell Phone
    Birthday Cake
    TV
    Chainsaw
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2006
  2. Jaster Mereel Hostis Humani Generis Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    649
    I'm not for guns because I think people have some kind of inherent right to have them, I am for guns because I am an advocate of chaos. I like it when everyone has access to weapons.
     
  3. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,060
    I haven't quite decided yet, but I can say I personally don't like guns. My father gave me a rifle recently, and I must say I don't particularly get a thrill from holding a device that has the power to kill someone so easily.
     
  4. baumgarten fuck the man Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    Guns are extremely easy to make. From a pragmatic standpoint, it's easier to just deal with them as a fact of life than try to keep people from making, owning, and using them.
     
  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,822
    Guns are a fact of life but they have only one function.

    To wound or kill. They make it so easy.
     
  6. Jaster Mereel Hostis Humani Generis Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    649
    Well, all that aside, I think everyone having weapons of some kind makes life more interesting.
     
  7. Beryl WWAD What Would Athelwulf Do? Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    285
    I don't think they make the world a better place, but I don't think they make it a worse place either. They're dangerous, yes, but it seems to me that humans are prone to developing ways of killing each other at whatever level of sophistication they are allowed. I'm not personally fond of guns, but I don't support outlawing them.
     
  8. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Well, guns are the great equalizer in those times when your assailant does not care about your rights. Normall a 90 pound woman would just be the plaything of a 3000 pound attacker. A firearm or taser makes her dominant. The taser only helps if you have one or two attackers however. Three or more attackers and a taser is worth nothing.
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,953
    Why are Americans so fearful of stranger attack? Statistically, it hardly ever happens.

    As for murder, over 80% of murder victims are killed by people they know very well - often members of their own family.
     
  10. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,307
    Probably due to the old motto of "better safe than sorry". Life is all about survival.

    - N
     
  11. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,953
    I think there's more to it than that. I think the US media, in particular, feeds the American public a constant diet of fear. Fear of terrorists. Fear of street crime. Fear of people of other races. etc.
     
  12. Jaster Mereel Hostis Humani Generis Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    649
    I think you've got it on the nose, James R.

    As an aside, this doesn't change my position that life is more interesting when everyone has a weapon of some kind. Ah... chaos. Why, if you don't like someone why can't you have the means to shoot them in the face? Just a thought.
     
  13. wsionynw Master Queef Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,309
    Surely you'd feel differently if a member of your family was shot in the face?
    I really don't understand the American gun laws., we hear lots of reports over here in the UK, some of which may be true. I think it's very dangerous allowing the general public access to guns, you are asking for trouble. I read a recent interview with Kurt Russell, where he voiced his support for gun ownership. His logic was that what if a riot kicked off in your home town, you'd want some sort of personal protection! If every clown has a gun then you will get to the point where an argument results in a gun murder.
    Here in the UK handguns were banned after a guy walked into a school and shot a number of children. The only people that lose out are the few gun geeks that for some reason feel good about shooting off their guns, well tough shit for them.
     
  14. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,149
    Thinking is not your strong suit is it?

    There is such a thing as being careful. You know worrying about the things at are pretty probable and quite heinous. thos crimes will happen to some body. Wouldn't you like an equalizer when that happened?
     
  15. leopold i miss my coco. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,045
    of course. do you really believe criminals are going to be legit? and the last time i checked a murderer is a criminal.

    i believe a person has every right to defend themselves.
    a person has the right to meet force with force.
    if a person threatens you with a knife you are allowed to counter with a knife.
    if a person threatens you with a gun you are allowed to counter with a gun.
    if a person threatens you with an atom bomb you are allowed to counter with an atom bomb.

    the old saying "when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is true
     
  16. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,060
    The poll is so black-and-white. Why is this so?
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,953
    TW Scott:

    Your ad hominem is unwelcome and useless. Either respond to the point I made, or don't bother posting a response.
     
  18. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,658
    It seems to me that the dubious benefits of having a gun in your home are far outweighed by the dangers of having a gun in your home. They're a guaranteed way of elevating domestic assault to murder (so the argument that "they'd do it anyway" doesn't really wash):

    And for added fun: Shootings of Children by Children
     
  19. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,214
    Only the gross, inferior man, does not value his life enough to end those who would harm it unjustly. Therefore, I view as inferior men who have find guns of questionable value, outside of a throughly analyzed viewpoint based on the benefits of another type of weapon, and all women as fools who do think they will remain safe without a gun to protect them in case of assault outside of the protection of a man.

    In essence: You are either a fool or a coward if you do not think positively of weapons.

    Redarmy111:

    So? A man committed a crime. He was a loose cannon. If these people viewed their lives as so important, they'd have fought him. Similarly, if others had been armed, they could have reacted and ended that man's life. Moreover, you have utterly glossed over the tens of thousands of cases each year in America where guns play a positive role, picking but one case where they did not, amongst many of thousand less emotional ones.

    Foreover, to ban guns because children occasionally - and VERY occasionally, there are not many cases of this happening, although ti is tragic - kill one another with them would be tantamount to banning hotdogs and legos because children die frmo them all the time. Control your children and you shan't have them blast eachother's brains out.

    Also, as a general thing:

    It is assinine to ever take one particular incident, no matter how horrible, and ban something based on that. That guns may be abused by warped individuals is no more reason to ban them than rape necessitates that we ban all sex, or pedophilia that we ban all sex, or arson that we ban all fire, or vehicular homocide that we ban all cars. Crimes are committed by criminals and their access to guns are usually criminal in nature, also. Law abiding citizens do not abuse their guns for the purpose of violence as a general course of action anymore than a driver seeks out pedestrians to kill.

    In almost all instances where a gun is used in a crime, another gun would have prevented the first's negative impact. Where everyone is armed, peace is met through mutual respect of everyone's abilities to kill another and those unarmed remain better protected by virtue of the likelyhood they are.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2006
  20. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,658
    Let me say this again: most murders happen in the home and most murders are committed by people already known to the victim. 25% of all murders occur within the immediate family. 80% of all murders are commited by known assailants. The danger posed by unknown intruders or street assailants is relatively minor. Do you seriously think that doubling or tripling the number of guns in the home would have any positive impact on these figures? Most men use guns far more readily and with far more ease than women. 9 times out of 10 where a woman and a man engage in a face-off the woman will end up dead. The USA has the highest murder rate in the Western world. It's also the Western country where guns are most readily available. To me, there's only one possible conclusion.
     

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