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Thread: Which theory could explain PSI?

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Which theory could explain PSI?

    To those who are open to PSI existing. Which theory do you believe may explain PSI (paranormal phenomena) such as telepathy, clairvoyance, psychokinesis, near-death experiences or apparitions etc?

    John Beloff a well known parapsychologist concluded that PSI occurs becuase of dualism ie the mind and brain are separate. Amit Goswami however in his book “The Self-Aware Universe”, lists some studies on quantum physics that may lead to an explanation of psi that agrees with the theory of a nonphysical and conceptual world. He explains that in quantum physics, objects are not seen as definite things. Instead, objects are possibilities, viewed as something called “possibility waves”. Of course his interpretation due to his research in quantum physics has lead him to formulate idealistic monism, that only consciousness exists in the universe and everything is part of it, he argues against dualism and materialism.

    Others however have disagreed and put forward physical and materialistic theories to try and explain PSI.

    Michael Persinger claims that much of paranormal phenomena can be explained by low frequency (ELF) electromagnetic waves.

    Brian Josephson has claimed that the explanation of PSI may be found in quantum physics. Gerald Feinberg's concept of a tachyon, a theoretical particle that travels faster than the speed of light has been advocated by some parapsychologists who claim that it could explain some PSI phenomena.

    Charles Tart however believes PSI is completey non-physical and does not operate to material laws.

    There are many theories which try and explain PSI. Which one do you advocate and why? If any?

  2. #2
    Quantum harmonics from dark energy resonance. That, or people are just deluding themselves.

  3. #3
    Near death experiences can be explained by the DMT produced in the pineal gland during high stress situations as well as oxygen deprivation and the effects of anesthesia. I'm certainly open to these things existing, but it would be premature to develop a theory about them because they haven't been shown to exist.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by origin View Post
    Quantum harmonics from dark energy resonance. That, or people are just deluding themselves.
    Origin . . . I agree with your first option (sentence) . . . (just for James' sake . . . don't add IMO!!) (<-- humor here, James)
    Last edited by wlminex; 01-26-12 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Punc

  5. #5
    Gerald Feinberg's concept of a tachyon, a theoretical particle that travels faster than the speed of light has been advocated by some parapsychologists who claim that it could explain some PSI phenomena.
    Bah. I applaud your strength. But remember this is a science forum. Back-up your big claims. It's cool you are bringing this to light - but give us a link, or something to work off of.

  6. #6

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Search & Destroy View Post
    Bah. I applaud your strength. But remember this is a science forum. Back-up your big claims. It's cool you are bringing this to light - but give us a link, or something to work off of.
    My big claims? Where did I state that I even believe in any of these? I am just reporting what certain scientists have said and wanted to know what others think about them.

    The tachyon is a particle which can travel faster than light, some of these authors have claimed it can travel backwards in time and may be able to carry psi data. The problem with this is, is that the tachyon has yet to be discovered it is still a hypothetical particle.

  7. #7
    Valued Senior Member Arioch's Avatar
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    He explains that in quantum physics, objects are not seen as definite things. Instead, objects are possibilities, viewed as something called “possibility waves”.
    What he "forgets" to mention, then, is that "objects" in quantum physics are tiny. And by tiny I mean minuscule in the ultimate sense of the word. At larger sizes the wave functions collapse to represent the most plausible trajectory and form, hence why people can't just walk through walls by "borrowing" energy from atoms around them.

  8. #8
    F-in' *meow* baby!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by darryl View Post
    To those who are open to PSI existing. Which theory do you believe may explain PSI (paranormal phenomena) such as telepathy, clairvoyance, psychokinesis, near-death experiences or apparitions etc?
    To have a theory you first need to have a phenomenon to study. To date, there is no known paranormal phenomenon to study. In other words, there is no theory that can explain something that hasn't been shown to exist.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Crunchy Cat View Post
    To have a theory you first need to have a phenomenon to study. To date, there is no known paranormal phenomenon to study. In other words, there is no theory that can explain something that hasn't been shown to exist.
    I am not sure what you are saying here, no known paranormal phenomenon to study? For a start theres scientists at this very moment (lets call them parapsychologists) in many countries trying to test and prove ESP in the lab or produce psychokinesis, these experiments have been going on atleast since the 50s. Theres also more mainstream stuff like the work of Rupert Sheldrake trying to test telepathy in people and animals.

    Every year theres 1000s if not millions of reports of ghost, apparition sightings. "Ghost hunters" as they are called investigate this phenomena with EMF meters and other devices.

    Theres also serious studies which have been taken in OBE out of body experiences, astral projection, clairvoyance and precognition.

    Now even if you believe all of these things are psychological ie hallucination, illusion, wishful thinking and or delusion - then there is still something to study. So your point about there being no paranormal phenomenon to study makes no sense at all. People are studying this stuff everyday, and more importantly millions of people are experiecing what they term the "paranormal", according to statistics based on reports more than 50% of people will have a "paranormal" experience once in their life.

  10. #10
    Registered Senior Member Ellis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darryl View Post
    I am not sure what you are saying here, no known paranormal phenomenon to study? For a start theres scientists at this very moment (lets call them parapsychologists) in many countries trying to test and prove ESP in the lab or produce psychokinesis, these experiments have been going on atleast since the 50s. Theres also more mainstream stuff like the work of Rupert Sheldrake trying to test telepathy in people and animals.

    Every year theres 1000s if not millions of reports of ghost, apparition sightings. "Ghost hunters" as they are called investigate this phenomena with EMF meters and other devices.

    Theres also serious studies which have been taken in OBE out of body experiences, astral projection, clairvoyance and precognition.

    Now even if you believe all of these things are psychological ie hallucination, illusion, wishful thinking and or delusion - then there is still something to study. So your point about there being no paranormal phenomenon to study makes no sense at all. People are studying this stuff everyday, and more importantly millions of people are experiecing what they term the "paranormal", according to statistics based on reports more than 50% of people will have a "paranormal" experience once in their life.
    Hi Darryl, parapsychologists are not scientists. Eye witness accounts of phenomena are not credible. Any "serious" studies have never measured any definable elements of PSI. There are zero experiments available to reproduce PSI claims. It is however, a very popular sector of science fiction which most all of us enjoy to some degree. You will be a lot further ahead if you first look into what is actually involved with legitimate scientific method and stay away from sources of information that do not employ it.

  11. #11
    Valued Senior Member Arioch's Avatar
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    @darryl --

    And exactly how many of those "phenomena" you mention don't have naturalistic explanations? That's right, none of them.

  12. #12
    F-in' *meow* baby!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by darryl View Post
    I am not sure what you are saying here, no known paranormal phenomenon to study?
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by darryl View Post
    For a start theres scientists at this very moment (lets call them parapsychologists) in many countries trying to test and prove ESP in the lab or produce psychokinesis, these experiments have been going on atleast since the 50s. Theres also more mainstream stuff like the work of Rupert Sheldrake trying to test telepathy in people and animals.
    Science tends to only test for the existence of phenomenon when some existing model says it should be there. For example, particle physics predicts the existence of the Higgs Boson and scientists are testing for its existence.

    The paranormal isn't part of any science models. People do test for it and here is why. The paranormal is a set of very attractive ideas. Who wouldn't want telekenesis or to maintain consciousness after death? In other words, people are spinning their wheels trying to test for the existence of the paranormal (and they will continue to do so) simply because they love the idea of the paranormal.

    Quote Originally Posted by darryl View Post
    Every year theres 1000s if not millions of reports of ghost, apparition sightings. "Ghost hunters" as they are called investigate this phenomena with EMF meters and other devices.
    There are more reports of external paranormal phenomenon than cops using excessive force, yet we seem to catch cops using excessive force on video all the time (unlike the paranormal). That is something to think about.

    Quote Originally Posted by darryl View Post
    Theres also serious studies which have been taken in OBE out of body experiences, astral projection, clairvoyance and precognition.
    It would make sense that people are curious as to why the experiences happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by darryl View Post
    Now even if you believe all of these things are psychological ie hallucination, illusion, wishful thinking and or delusion - then there is still something to study.
    100% correct. It is a study of human psychology and neurology.

    Quote Originally Posted by darryl View Post
    So your point about there being no paranormal phenomenon to study makes no sense at all.
    Of course it does. Human psychology and neurology are not paranormal.

    Quote Originally Posted by darryl View Post
    People are studying this stuff everyday, and more importantly millions of people are experiecing what they term the "paranormal", according to statistics based on reports more than 50% of people will have a "paranormal" experience once in their life.
    While I don't know if that statistic is accurate, I will agree that many people have experiences they would call paranormal. I also agree that why those experiences happen gets studied.

  13. #13
    Which theory could explain PSI?

    The theory that people can delude themselves to believe anything.

  14. #14
    C'mon, get happy! chimpkin's Avatar
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    I put all this stuff in my gray file.
    I dunno, I dunno, and I dunno.
    I still say it can be studied as a sociological phenomenon, as a cultural practice, of course.
    I imagine the majority of people have had weird stuff happen to them.
    Gray-file stuff.

    I am simply content to wait for any explanation that can't be proven to boil down the the one origin states above me.

    Why did I feel the house to be under threat for three days before a tornado almost clipped it?
    I dunno.

  15. #15
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    there is a life force that we have not investigated

    and this life force has energy unto its self

  16. #16
    Valued Senior Member Buddha12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by river View Post
    there is a life force that we have not investigated

    and this life force has energy unto its self
    What is it called since you seem to know about it?

    If it has a "energy" where does it get that from?

  17. #17
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    “ Originally Posted by river
    there is a life force that we have not investigated

    and this life force has energy unto its self


    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha12 View Post
    What is it called since you seem to know about it?
    life energy



    If it has a "energy" where does it get that from?
    the Universe

  18. #18
    Valued Senior Member Arioch's Avatar
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    @river --

    there is a life force that we have not investigated
    There is? What "force" would that be?

    I use "force" in quotations because it's patently obvious that you don't mean anything akin to any scientific definition of the word.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arioch View Post
    @river --

    “ there is a life force that we have not investigated

    There is?
    there is


    What "force" would that be?
    life


    I use "force" in quotations because it's patently obvious that you don't mean anything akin to any scientific definition of the word.
    and what scientific investigation has investigated life as force ?

  20. #20
    Valued Senior Member Arioch's Avatar
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    @river --

    life
    What force is there to investigate? Life is matter and energy performing a complicated dance, there's literally no need to invoke any unknown force to explain it.

    and what scientific investigation has investigated life as force ?
    I'm still trying to ferret out what you mean by "force". Do you mean something akin to the electromagnetic force or the force of gravity? I'm pretty sure that you don't mean "force" in the sense of F=MA because that just wouldn't make any sense in relation to what you've posted, but until you clarify I'm just left guessing.

    If, as I suspect, you're talking about the difference between living and nonliving matter then we have investigated it, quite thoroughly I might add. That investigation lead to the discovery, sequencing, and manipulation of DNA. It's called "genetics", maybe you've heard of it?

    If I had to say what the biggest, but by no means only, difference between living and nonliving matter it's that living matter has mechanisms for self-replication and nonliving matter doesn't.

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