In the past, bad PR about wrongfully terminating someone has been a thing. Now, it seems that the public is calling for the accused to be terminated (or to step aside) before anything has been proven one way or another.
Al Franken is Gone, Sexual Harassment Allegations are Harming Democrats
- Thread starter ElectricFetus
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What kind of red herring is that? Again I ask because I don't think you answered before: Do you mind if I get a couple of women to call your employer and accuse you of sexual assault, do you understand why that would be wrong? Do explain.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Yes, that would be morally wrong. It was wrong a decade ago and it's still wrong now. If someone got fired due to a conspiracy against them, that is certainly cause for a lawsuit.
Total red herring.
But what if the women believe that you sexual assaulted them?
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Then maybe they are right.
Well I'm glad you admit you are a sexual harasser at the whim of women's belief.
Yes another democrat under attack for "Pro-Rape" behavior (something he said nearly 20 years ago)
what you fail to realize is 'clean-up', changing the old paradigm of 'good ol' boy' and higher ethical standards benefits everyone, including you as a male.
do you realize that when it comes to sexual assault, that it's more men who sexually assault other men as well as women?
yes, you as a male, including if you have male children, will still be more apt to be at risk of sexual harassment, molestation and rape from another male than a female.
First of all, I'm not a fan of Cenk. Second: once again sexual harassment, molestation and rape is to be dealt with by police, if any of these things happen to you, you need to go to police or else nothing can be done about it. third: what any of that has to do with some blog post 20 years ago, I don't know. Forth: yes men are evil, blah blah blah, I'm not responsible for other men, our penises do not transmit guilt to each other via penile quantum entanglement.
you sure have a flippant attitude about sexual assault. i'm sure your tune would change if you were a victim. perhaps you will get the chance one day. and if it's rape and especially violent and brutal, most likely (like 99 percent probability) would be another male as your assailant. i'd like to hear your incessant defense of men like you are carrying on right now as if people are oh so out to get all men.
again, no one is attacking men specifically. i just told you a fact. yet, you are offended and feign that it's all men. i never said it was all men (obviously not), but it's usually more often men. you seem to have some problem with that fact, and if you do, you should take it up with other men instead of talking about sexual harassment and assault like a pratty bitch.
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aaaah have you not read anything I have said so far about the times I have been sexually assaulted?
Already did, repeatedly.
Well then that explains why it was not brutal!
You know if a women murders her children, as women disproportionally do, they need to be prosecuted by a court of law to determine guilt and punishment, just like any other crime, committed by anyone. Of course no one is pointing out how dis-proportionally women abuse and murder their children compared to men, because that would be sexist, but to turn around and claim I'm responsible for other men raping and assaulting because penis, is ok?
I just think we should have due process for accusations of criminal activity, I'm offended when guilt is assumed because of the sex of the accused.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
But as private citizens we can do quite a lot about it. We can not tolerate it in the workplace for instance.
Yeah sure, depends what you mean by "not tolerate it in the workplace" for example saying no relationships between co-workers, or having HR investigate and terminate employees quietly, sure, going on social media and accusing someone of sexual harrasement, that is slander.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Only if it's false.
Has to be proven true, or else it is slander and one can be sued. Companies can fire you for what ever the reason they want, publicizes it though can open then up to law suits. Even university have some leeway in expulsions and even they are now being met with universities getting sued 10 times as much since the "dear college" letter reduced the standards to determine guilt at the university levels for expelling studies for sexual assault.
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Bells
Staff member
A heads up.. Actually, women tend to kill their children in the first week of life, which is often a result of severe postpartum depression, the younger age of the mother, lack of maternal care during pregnancy and post pregnancy, for example. Once that first week is past, it's the father's or stepfather's who end up killing more of their own children.
And people do have their opinions, hence why you will sometimes have members of the public camped outside the court to chant about the 'child killer', for example.
And once again, Al Franken was a politician. And shock of shocks, people do have a right to their opinions and say said opinion on whether they think he is guilty or not. Reason being is that it people do look at the character of the person, in this case a politician..
If he is arrested and charged, then you can argue about lack of "due process" if that is actually the case.
Yeah yeah women are not adult human people responsible for their own actions to you, got it. Is that your excuse for killing children: hormones? Next up PMS as a legal defense... oh shit.
Once again there is a difference between having an opinion and rallying up a lynch mob. For example back in the old days if people thought a black man looked at a white women the wrong way, why that was just their opinion was it not?
Once again you ignore the the issue which is the inflicting of punishment outside the law: people do not have the right to harass someone because of their opinion, that is punishment without due process. Otherwise if I and others believed you murdered and eat children we would be righteously and morally obligated to harass you about it all the time, call your friends and family and harass them about it, for everyone that does not point at you and scream is a child eater supporter.
This is a discussion about accusations, and what should be done about it, clearly we treat accusations of baby killing different then accusations of sexual harassment, which is my point: they are both serious crimes that should be treated with due process in a court of law. Why would demanding social punishment for accusation of baby killing be laughably stupid but demand social punishment for sexual harassment not be?
There are libel laws. If you falsely post that Bells eats children, for example (and I note in passing that this is a particularly tasteless example you're been pushing, particularly as Bells is a woman and this is a thread about the harassment of women), then Bells has legal recourse to sue you for libel. Similarly, if somebody falsely accuses Al Franken, or whoever, of sexual harassment, Al is free to sue for libel. To take a real-world example that is currently going through the legal process, Geoffrey Rush is currently suing for libel for exactly this kind of accusation in a media publication.
So, there are existing legal processes to protect against this punishment-by-words that you're so worried about.
It appears to me that you are advocating a system in which women are only allowed to make formal accusations of sexual harassment, rape, or whatever, and that their free speech to make such accusations on a platform like Facebook or Twitter should be curtailed. Is this your position, in a nutshell?
Given that there are often very real barriers to accessing legal remedies, how do you justify the removal of the right of women to speak out on harassment, that you are apparently advocating?
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