Trump is "a clear and present danger"

[ForrestDean]

Neither Clinton nor Trump by their self present no more of a threat to society than I do. The System will continue doing what it does regardless of who the current president is and regardless of who the future president will be.

 

[joepistole]

Neither Clinton nor Trump by their self present no more of a threat to society than I do. The System will continue doing what it does regardless of who the current president is and regardless of who the future president will be.

Hmm...then how do you explain Baby Bush? The fact is, who occupies the White House and controls Congress and the Supreme Court does make a huge difference. That's why billionaires spend billions of dollars on these elections. The fact is who controls government makes a big difference. If it were not for Democrats millions of people 15 million people wouldn't have healthcare insurance today.

The truth is if Republicans had there way, the nation would still be mired in a deep recession. It matters greatly how controls government.

 

[joepistole]

Yeh-not "shore patrol boats"------oops----make that----"coastal patrol boats"

Meanwhile, I'd like details on more recent encounters:
eg:
the uss Nitze(guided missile destroyer),
the uss Firebolt (Cyclone-class coastal patrol boat.),
the uss Tempest(Cyclone-class coastal patrol boat)
the uss Squall(Cyclone-class coastal patrol boat)
and the uss Stout (Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer.)

I could not find longitude and latitude for any of these encounters.
......................
curious that
My son's car has a device that will give the coordinates with the push of a button.
I would assume even better systems on our ships and boats.
...........................
Within the past few years, we have had chinese boats and planes buzz our craft, russian planes buzz our craft, etc....
From personal experience, I know of several incidents when our pilots have pulled similar stunts(just for fun)
So, one rule in the military CYA(cover your ass) means fudge the details in your favor. "operating in international waters" lacks detail, and smacks of fudging.
So,(objectively) I wonder who challenged whom and how and where did the encounters take place?

If you want the exact longitudes and latitudes I think you will likely need to file a Freedom of Information Request.

 

[ForrestDean]

Hmm...then how do you explain Baby Bush? The fact is, who occupies the White House and controls Congress and the Supreme Court does make a huge difference. That's why billionaires spend billions of dollars on these elections. The fact is who controls government makes a big difference. If it were not for Democrats millions of people 15 million people wouldn't have healthcare insurance today.

The truth is if Republicans had there way, the nation would still be mired in a deep recession. It matters greatly how controls government.

I don't explain Baby Bush. The President makes about as much difference as a janitor in a school. He's just part of the whole process. The billions of dollars that are spent and the institutions who spend them are also nothing more than just mechanics of the System. While he may indeed work hard and make important decisions, his job is simple - keep the System as is, tidy it up and make sure it stays clean and running efficiently, and make no changes unless it is a benefit to the System as it is today. If the President tries to deviate from the demands of the System in any way then he is in for some hard times. While he may have control within the limits of what his job calls for, his power that people perceives he has is nothing more than an illusion.

 

[sculptor]

Ron Paul: Vote All You Want, the Secret Government Won’t Change

 

[joepistole]

I don't explain Baby Bush. The President makes about as much difference as a janitor in a school. He's just part of the whole process. The billions of dollars that are spent and the institutions who spend them are also nothing more than just mechanics of the System. While he may indeed work hard and make important decisions, his job is simple - keep the System as is, tidy it up and make sure it stays clean and running efficiently, and make no changes unless it is a benefit to the System as it is today. If the President tries to deviate from the demands of the System in any way then he is in for some hard times. While he may have control within the limits of what his job calls for, his power that people perceives he has is nothing more than an illusion.

Of course you don't explain Baby Bush, because Baby Bush puts a big hole in your argument. If your argument were true, then we wouldn't need leaders; we wouldn't need generals; we wouldn't need the people who lead our businesses, schools, hospitals, and charities. The fact is your assertion is demonstrably absurd. There is a world of difference between a school janitor and the POTUS. If you can't see that you are either delusional or mentally deficient. Baby Bush led the nation into an unnecessary and unwise war. He conducted 2 botched wars. His budgets were passed by a Republican controlled Congress and were so profligate his Treasury Secretary resigned rather than be a party to his profligacy. A janitor cannot appoint judges. A janitor doesn't lead an army and a navy. A janitor doesn't negotiate with other nations. A janitor doesn't supervise and lead and organization of more than 3 million people. A janitor cannot override the votes of 357 congressmen, the POTUS can. A janitor cannot issue clemency for prisoners. So your assertion that there isn't much difference between the POTUS and a janitor is patently absurd. Billionaires spend billions trying to get the POTUS of their choice. Contrary to your assertion the POTUS matters. That's why the nation's founders created the job.

 

[ForrestDean]

Of course you don't explain Baby Bush, because Baby Bush puts a big hole in your argument. If your argument were true, then we wouldn't need leaders; we wouldn't need generals; we wouldn't need the people who lead our businesses, schools, hospitals, and charities. The fact is your assertion is demonstrably absurd. There is a world of difference between a school janitor and the POTUS. If you can't see that you are either delusional or mentally deficient. Baby Bush led the nation into an unnecessary and unwise war. He conducted 2 botched wars. His budgets were passed by a Republican controlled Congress and were so profligate his Treasury Secretary resigned rather than be a party to his profligacy. A janitor cannot appoint judges. A janitor doesn't lead an army and a navy. A janitor doesn't negotiate with other nations. A janitor doesn't supervise and lead and organization of more than 3 million people. A janitor cannot override the votes of 357 congressmen, the POTUS can. A janitor cannot issue clemency for prisoners. So your assertion that there isn't much difference between the POTUS and a janitor is patently absurd. Billionaires spend billions trying to get the POTUS of their choice. Contrary to your assertion the POTUS matters. That's why the nation's founders created the job.

Hehe, would you like to know who is responsible for those 2 botched wars that Bush led us into? And do you think he actually made that decision on his own against the will of the System? I wouldn't call the wars unnecessary. A sick society with extremely high demands needs a remedy. Why do you think "he" brought us into those wars? What was the purpose or the objective?

 

[joepistole]

Hehe, would you like to know who is responsible for those 2 botched wars that Bush led us into? And do you think he actually made that decision on his own against the will of the System? I wouldn't call the wars unnecessary. A sick society with extremely high demands needs a remedy. Why do you think "he" brought us into those wars? What was the purpose or the objective?

"Hehe"? Are you a juvenile?

Do you have some secret conspiracy theory about the wars? The fact is Baby Bush led us into the 2 botched wars and he is responsible for his actions. He was POTUS. He was the Commander in Chief. You are peddling conspiracies of which you have absolutely no evidence. The "system" didn't cause Baby Bush to invade and botch 2 the invasion and occupation of 2 countries. Baby Bush did that all on his own. He was the man in charge. He made the decisions. He bares the full responsibility for his actions and inaction. And it doesn't matter what you would call those wars. One can make a case for the Afghanistan invasion. But onne cannot make a case for his botching that invasion and that war. One cannot make a case for his incompetence at Tora Bora and letting Bin Laden escape. And one cannot make a case for his zealous invasion and incompetent occupation of Iraq.

And just what makes you think society is "sick"? Why do you think Baby Bush led the nation into those wars? There is never a good reason for incompetence.

 

[iceaura]

Ron Paul: Vote All You Want, the Secret Government Won’t Change

It's a secret?

The difference between Al Gore's obviously likely government and W&Cheney's obvious incoming government - and don't even try to claim nobody saw W&Cheney's Fuckup of the Century coming, because the entire liberal and left public discussion nailed it from the beginning of the campaigns in 2000 - was extreme. The difference between a Supreme Court that hands down nonsense decisions like Citizen's United or the revocation of the Voting Rights supervisory role, and one that can reason in the real world, is stark.

Where's the big secret? Ron Paul has been on my TV machine plenty of times, and making a lot of sense in my opinion, but not telling me anything new and strange.

 

[ForrestDean]

"Hehe"? Are you a juvenile?

Do you have some secret conspiracy theory about the wars? The fact is Baby Bush led us into the 2 botched wars and he is responsible for his actions. He was POTUS. He was the Commander in Chief. You are peddling conspiracies of which you have absolutely no evidence. The "system" didn't cause Baby Bush to invade and botch 2 the invasion and occupation of 2 countries. Baby Bush did that all on his own. He was the man in charge. He made the decisions. He bares the full responsibility for his actions and inaction. And it doesn't matter what you would call those wars. One can make a case for the Afghanistan invasion. But onne cannot make a case for his botching that invasion and that war. One cannot make a case for his incompetence at Tora Bora and letting Bin Laden escape. And one cannot make a case for his zealous invasion and incompetent occupation of Iraq.

And just what makes you think society is "sick"? Why do you think Baby Bush led the nation into those wars? There is never a good reason for incompetence.

Nah, I have no interest in conspiracies. Conspiracies are just a natural symptom of a self-serving society.

Society is sick because it is dominated by the ego, and because of this dominance the individuals that make up this global society are more interested, or I should say submitted into serving the self over others. We have an overwhelming craving to serve and exalt our self over all others at the expense of all others in order to meet the demands of our ego. Because of this self-serving mindset society has become a cancer unto itself. This System is a reflection of the individuals that comprise it. It is a non-sustainable self-destructive system. Those who fail to see this self-destructive nature of this System are very well indoctrinated servants of the System itself. The demands of society have become increasingly harder for the resources of this planet to keep up. So it's only quite natural that a nation with the greatest power that has the highest demand for resources will seek to obtain resources from other parts of the globe in order to meet it's overwhelming demand.

The wars we have fought and continue to fight all in the name of so-called "freedom" have never been about freedom. That is just a farce, a cover-up. It is also a very effective part of the System's self-defense mechanism or immune system. None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free, ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. How can any one nation fight to preserve freedom when that nation itself is enslaved? It's true that we live better than any other nation on the planet. We just have a bigger and nicer looking jail cell. Bush sent us into these wars because he basically had no choice. We need to occupy other parts of this planet in order to meet the extremely high demands of this society - the extremely high demands of the ego.

 

[iceaura]

Bush sent us into these wars because he basically had no choice.

That isn't true, historically. It's possible that no other President, even another Republican, would have launched the Iraq War - the special circumstances around that decision are well documented.

 

[sculptor]

Supranational deep state?

"The term "deep state" has experienced something of a surge in popularity in the last few years, not in the context of so called developing nations, but the US. This may reflect a disillusionment with the kleptocratic state of the US regime, which is an increasingly thinly disguised police state. Misleading metaphors such as "bad apples in government" of "deadlock in congress" are still used by the commercially-controlled media, but as the revolving door between government and private industry becomes ever clearer, more and more people are seeing the bloody fingerprints of the military industrial complex on the levers of 'democratic' government."
(forgetting for the moment that we do not live in a democracy)

Let us consider that trump wins and tries to control the mic.
Will he be assassinated? Will his family be assigned "guards" who hold them hostage?
Does the deep state exist in any unified and static form?

 

[joepistole]

Nah, I have no interest in conspiracies. Conspiracies are just a natural symptom of a self-serving society.

Society is sick because it is dominated by the ego, and because of this dominance the individuals that make up this global society are more interested, or I should say submitted into serving the self over others. We have an overwhelming craving to serve and exalt our self over all others at the expense of all others in order to meet the demands of our ego. Because of this self-serving mindset society has become a cancer unto itself. This System is a reflection of the individuals that comprise it. It is a non-sustainable self-destructive system. Those who fail to see this self-destructive nature of this System are very well indoctrinated servants of the System itself. The demands of society have become increasingly harder for the resources of this planet to keep up. So it's only quite natural that a nation with the greatest power that has the highest demand for resources will seek to obtain resources from other parts of the globe in order to meet it's overwhelming demand.

The wars we have fought and continue to fight all in the name of so-called "freedom" have never been about freedom. That is just a farce, a cover-up. It is also a very effective part of the System's self-defense mechanism or immune system. None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free, ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. How can any one nation fight to preserve freedom when that nation itself is enslaved? It's true that we live better than any other nation on the planet. We just have a bigger and nicer looking jail cell. Bush sent us into these wars because he basically had no choice. We need to occupy other parts of this planet in order to meet the extremely high demands of this society - the extremely high demands of the ego.

Oh, yes you do. You've got some big conspiracy theories. You are pushing the biggest and greatest of conspiracy theories - "the mysterious, amorphous, illusive, secret "system". Where is your evidence von Goethe ever wrote the words you attribute to him? I find it a bit ironic you are attempting to cite a man known for his active participation in the mercenary slave trade and portray him as some kind of great humanist. The farce is your denial of your conspiracies. You have no evidence to support your conspiracy theories. Baby Bush was and is responsible for his decisions and for his incompetence.

We all act in our self interest. It's called commerce. We don't knock each other over the head to get what we need, we trade our services and materials for what we need. Contrary to your assertion, it's not unsustainable. Man has been doing it since the very beginning of mankind. Our close relatives the apes do it. Birds do it. It's a very common survival strategy. That's why animals of all sorts do it. Man has just been better at it and much more prolific. That doesn't make it unsustainable and there is no reason to believe it is unsustainable.

 

[iceaura]

"The term "deep state" has experienced something of a surge in popularity in the last few years, not in the context of so called developing nations, but the US. This may reflect a disillusionment with the kleptocratic state of the US regime, which is an increasingly thinly disguised police state.

Which they never noticed until a black guy got elected President.

Let us consider that trump wins and tries to control the mic.
Will he be assassinated? Will his family be assigned "guards" who hold them hostage?
Does the deep state exist in any unified and static form?

Let's consider the suddenly hyperventilating condition experienced by newly "independent" voters faced with the truth of what the liberals and lefties have been trying to tell them about for their entire adult lives.

What do they have to believe about Trump to allow them to vote for the guy? Is it all about Clinton, or do they have to build up a fantasy identity for Trump as well?

 

[ForrestDean]

Oh, yes you do. You've got some big conspiracy theories. You are pushing the biggest and greatest of conspiracy theories - "the mysterious, amorphous, illusive, secret "system". Where is your evidence von Goethe ever wrote the words you attribute to him? I find it a bit ironic you are attempting to cite a man known for his active participation in the mercenary slave trade and portray him as some kind of great humanist. The farce is your denial of your conspiracies. You have no evidence to support your conspiracy theories. Baby Bush was and is responsible for his decisions and for his incompetence.

Hehe, I can tell you are not understanding, but that is ok. I don't expect you to, and there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with the System. Again, I have no interest in conspiracies. Conspiracies are reserved for the fearful. The global System no more conspires against anyone or anything or any part of itself than you conspire against the cells in your body. But I can tell you the System is indiscriminate. It shows no partiality. It will do whatever it takes to preserve itself and ensure it's survival just as any other human would do the same for it's body and well being. However, there are in fact conspiracies because that again is a result of the current mindset of society. Everyone conspires, not just big corporations and governments. The System is the way it is because that is the way We designed it, just as the electrons, atoms, and cells designed your body. Everything is playing out exactly as it is intended to. All the wealth, prosperity, successes, failures, wars, poverty, disparity between social classes, killings, genocide and other human atrocities, the rise and fall of nations, laws, rules, morals, ethics, politics, governments, religions, nations, borders, patriotism, and on an on are just all parts of the System in play, doing exactly what they were designed to do - all working together to keep the global System going and working efficiently.

But once again the nature of this System is a self-serving one, and will inevitably result in it's destruction, or more appropriately it's transformation, in pretty much the same way a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly. However, some butterflies don't make the transition, mostly because the cells during metamorphosis are not ready for the transformation, so the caterpillar dies. There is nothing wrong with this either. The global System is no different than any other living organism. Some survive, some don't. Some newly born sea turtles make it to the shore, many don't. Some caterpillars transform, some don't. If the global human society doesn't survive the up and coming transition then we just don't. There's nothing wrong with this either. Besides, it's not like Earth is the only planet with human civilizations. There are many planets with civilizations that just don't make it to the next step in evolution, but there are many planets that do. Whether we survive to the next step or not is completely and totally up to us, and is 100% by choice.

We don't knock each other over the head to get what we need

Exactly. That's why we have laws, which is another attribute of the System that could be considered to act as one of many parts of it's immune system.

Man has been doing it since the very beginning of mankind. Our close relatives the apes do it. Birds do it. It's a very common survival strategy. That's why animals of all sorts do it. Man has just been better at it and much more prolific. That doesn't make it unsustainable and there is no reason to believe it is unsustainable.

Society can act in so much as the planet can sustain it. While we still have plenty of resources available, they are indeed limited. There's no way the planet can continue supporting over 7 billion and growing self-serving individuals consuming everything it can out of harmony with it's environment without circumstances. A balance must be and always is maintained. Survival of the fittest is not the nature of living organisms although it may appear that way because that is all we have ever observed since birth. It is a condition based on it's current environment. Survival of the fittest is a choice, not a necessary evil.

 

[joepistole]

Hehe, I can tell you are not understanding, but that is ok. I don't expect you to, and there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with the System. Again, I have no interest in conspiracies. Conspiracies are reserved for the fearful. The global System no more conspires against anyone or anything or any part of itself than you conspire against the cells in your body. But I can tell you the System is indiscriminate. It shows no partiality. It will do whatever it takes to preserve itself and ensure it's survival just as any other human would do the same for it's body and well being. However, there are in fact conspiracies because that again is a result of the current mindset of society. Everyone conspires, not just big corporations and governments. The System is the way it is because that is the way We designed it, just as the electrons, atoms, and cells designed your body. Everything is playing out exactly as it is intended to. All the wealth, prosperity, successes, failures, wars, poverty, disparity between social classes, killings, genocide and other human atrocities, the rise and fall of nations, laws, rules, morals, ethics, politics, governments, religions, nations, borders, patriotism, and on an on are just all parts of the System in play, doing exactly what they were designed to do - all working together to keep the global System going and working efficiently.

But once again the nature of this System is a self-serving one, and will inevitably result in it's destruction, or more appropriately it's transformation, in pretty much the same way a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly. However, some butterflies don't make the transition, mostly because the cells during metamorphosis are not ready for the transformation, so the caterpillar dies. There is nothing wrong with this either. The global System is no different than any other living organism. Some survive, some don't. Some newly born sea turtles make it to the shore, many don't. Some caterpillars transform, some don't. If the global human society doesn't survive the up and coming transition then we just don't. There's nothing wrong with this either. Besides, it's not like Earth is the only planet with human civilizations. There are many planets with civilizations that just don't make it to the next step in evolution, but there are many planets that do. Whether we survive to the next step or not is completely and totally up to us, and is 100% by choice.



Exactly. That's why we have laws, which is another attribute of the System that could be considered to act as one of many parts of it's immune system.



Society can act in so much as the planet can sustain it. While we still have plenty of resources available, they are indeed limited. There's no way the planet can continue supporting over 7 billion and growing self-serving individuals consuming everything it can out of harmony with it's environment without circumstances. A balance must be and always is maintained. Survival of the fittest is not the nature of living organisms although it may appear that way because that is all we have ever observed since birth. It is a condition based on it's current environment. Survival of the fittest is a choice, not a necessary evil.

You are deluding yourself.

 

[spidergoat]

Here's the latest from your "candidate of peace:"

“By the way, when Iran, when they circle our beautiful destroyers with their little boats, and they make gestures at our people that they shouldn’t be allowed to make, they will be shot out of the water.”

So when the Trump war starts, will you eat your words, or deny you said them?

They should be shot out of the water.

Meanwhile Trump openly supports an authoritarian dictator in Putin, who's leadership he admires. This is a guy that literally murders his rivals.

 

[billvon]

Neither Clinton nor Trump by their self present no more of a threat to society than I do. The System will continue doing what it does regardless of who the current president is and regardless of who the future president will be.

You may misunderstand both the power of the president and the role the president has historically played in both war and peace. Society would be better of today (and hundreds of thousands of people would not have been killed) had the presidents avoided the Vietnam and Iraq wars. Likewise, none of us might be here today if the Cuban Missile Crisis had been handled by someone like Trump, who has threatened military retaliation for rude hand gestures (never mind the placement of nuclear weapons in a country near our own.)

 

[iceaura]

Everything is playing out exactly as it is intended to

By whom?

 

[ForrestDean]

You may misunderstand both the power of the president and the role the president has historically played in both war and peace. Society would be better of today (and hundreds of thousands of people would not have been killed) had the presidents avoided the Vietnam and Iraq wars. Likewise, none of us might be here today if the Cuban Missile Crisis had been handled by someone like Trump, who has threatened military retaliation for rude hand gestures (never mind the placement of nuclear weapons in a country near our own.)

Most people are always to quick to blame the President for the conditions of our nation and the events that occur around the world. The President will do what he is told to do, otherwise actions must be taken to ensure that he does or get someone else who will. In most cases the President will do what his job requires him to do. But once in a great while you may get that one idealist who believes he will get in there and actually change the System, LOL. If for whatever reason he does get elected his original intentions will quickly be shut down if it comes into conflict with the self-serving interest of the System, and if he insists on continuing his intentions then other actions would need to be taken. This is not a conspiracy. This is just the System ensuring everything moves and flows to maintain the System and to keep it optimized. Anyway, in most cases the President will comply because who wants to lose their job or worse. Haven't you ever noticed that candidates almost never keep most of their campaign promises after they become elected?

The President is a steward. It is his job to maintain the status quo.

By whom?

By you.