homelessness

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nitram22

Registered Senior Member
In 2008 I had a 4br house, a PC business, and managed a retail store. I left the retail store to give my time to the PC business. Then the economy had its drop and its been a gradual slide into homeless poverty by 2013. Brutal. Setting all of that aside, I have by little other choices been flying a sign to survive and living out of storage.
I have seen something that the general public needs to open their eyes to.
The paper recently put a statement "giving money to panhandlers brings crime to the area"
Many of the people you see flying a sign have little or no other means of income on which to rely on. They are forced to rely on the kindness of strangers just to eat some days. If that option is taken away then what will happen? These people chose panhandling over crime. Don't force them into crime.
Common sense. Let people choose whether they want to give their spare change or not.
Don't let misguided opinions in the papers make life worse for those already struggling.
 
nitram22 said:
The paper recently put a statement "giving money to panhandlers brings crime to the area."
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There is a little truth to this, but only a little. There will always be dishonest people who will take advantage of a difficult situation. Some people will, indeed, travel to the areas where poor people beg for money, and pretend to be poor.

But this is not a major problem. To use it as an excuse to tell people not to help the needy is disingenuous and, basically, cruel.

Frankly, there are ways to distinguish the truly needy from the impostors. For example, truly poor people are starving, and starving people quickly lose their sense of humor. If you see a beggar with a funny sign, he's probably a fraud. And if one comes up to you making you laugh, he too is probably not genuine. Poor people are pathetic. They don't laugh and they don't tell jokes.
 
In many cities there are places that the homeless can stay at BUT they must comply to the rules that are made there. Many times the homeless can't get into these homeless shelters because they drink, cause problems with others, refuse to follow the rules whatever they might be. So if there are places for the homeless and they don't go along with the program why should anyone add to their drinking or drug problems by giving them money. What I do is ask them to come with me and I'll actually buy them something to eat if they want to. Many just want money so I just move along not contributing to their problems.
 
A couple of cities have tried a new approach, with stunning success. Instead of shoving all of the homeless people together into a giant hall with no privacy, they have begun to simply rent tiny apartments for them. This activates some sort of instinct in our species that requires a home.

Very few other species of animals have this instinct. One of the best-known examples is the prairie dog. Their warrens have been studied intensively and we've discovered that each family has a specific place where they go every night, and it is even divided into rooms for eating, sleeping, etc.

No other primate does this. Many monkeys and apes put considerable effort into preparing a safe, comfortable place in a tree for sleeping, but they almost never go back to the same place the next night.

Back to the no-longer-homeless humans... For the first couple of weeks they simply toss their sleeping bag on the floor, but then their "home" instinct starts to kick in. They start sleeping in the bed, then a few days later they wash the sheets and bed clothes, and start taking showers, shaving, etc. Within a couple of months they no longer look like "bums" and can go to an employment interview looking like all the other applicants. So far (the last time I read about this) no one had stayed in their city-provided home for an entire year. They got jobs and rented more comfortable apartments, and returned to society.

The total cost per capita is something like ten percent of the cost of housing them in a gymnasium for years on end. It helps them re-enter society, and it saves the taxpayers a lot of money!

It appears that being homeless is one of the most damaging conditions that a human being can experience.

Think of this when you read about the open-air camps for all those Mesopotamian refugees. :(
 
nitram22 said:
In 2008 I had a 4br house, a PC business, and managed a retail store. I left the retail store to give my time to the PC business. Then the economy had its drop and its been a gradual slide into homeless poverty by 2013. Brutal. Setting all of that aside, I have by little other choices been flying a sign to survive and living out of storage.
I have seen something that the general public needs to open their eyes to.
The paper recently put a statement "giving money to panhandlers brings crime to the area"
Many of the people you see flying a sign have little or no other means of income on which to rely on. They are forced to rely on the kindness of strangers just to eat some days. If that option is taken away then what will happen? These people chose panhandling over crime. Don't force them into crime.
Common sense. Let people choose whether they want to give their spare change or not.
Don't let misguided opinions in the papers make life worse for those already struggling.
Click to expand...
I doubt many are buying food with panhandled dough...
 
nitram22 said:
In 2008 I had a 4br house, a PC business, and managed a retail store. I left the retail store to give my time to the PC business. Then the economy had its drop and its been a gradual slide into homeless poverty by 2013. Brutal. Setting all of that aside, I have by little other choices been flying a sign to survive and living out of storage.
I have seen something that the general public needs to open their eyes to.
The paper recently put a statement "giving money to panhandlers brings crime to the area"
Many of the people you see flying a sign have little or no other means of income on which to rely on. They are forced to rely on the kindness of strangers just to eat some days. If that option is taken away then what will happen? These people chose panhandling over crime. Don't force them into crime.
Common sense. Let people choose whether they want to give their spare change or not.
Don't let misguided opinions in the papers make life worse for those already struggling.
Click to expand...
You as well are a chosen one do not die soon before I can arrive and find you...I will give you freedom from the pain and suffering you feel.
 
Some of the best people i have known with hearts of gold were homeless people. You can find gold and beauty in the most unlikely of places.

Out in the woods, they could have easily raped me and stolen from me but instead took me in, watched my belongings, made sure i was fed, warm and gave comfort and kindness. Even i had nicer items and clothing than they did when i was homeless and there was not a hint of that type of shallow jealousy or turned me away assuming i was better off.

They were my first real experience of family and love. Its enlightening when you peer beyond the myriad fakeness and lies of society. They are more beautiful than any asshole or bitch with all the money in the world.

Honestly, the people who have mistreated and damaged me the most and were the most dangerous were not homeless people.

These people know what its like to be mistreated, abused or hurt which further goes to prove that abuse automatically produces abusers is a myth. I would say being an asshole has little to nothing to do with that in most cases. I think assholes are mainly produced from getting away with selfishness or its validated or its just their nature.

Now soberly, of course, there exists good and bad people in every level of society but even when i had some money, the homeless people did not try to manipulate me or steal it which blew me away in respect for them. I have however had people with money try to take advantage of me though many times.

Even when things got better for me or i had access to better my situation, they were not jealous or cruel or 'why you, what makes you so special?' they were happy for me and glad i was finally getting out of that situation and wished me well. Even them saying you dont belong here not as in they didnt accept me but they knew it was hard on me more than them as they were more used to it. Even if someone just accidently made a comment that could be construed as rude, they spoke up motheringly as they didnt want me to be more hurt. Its like they wanted to preserve whatever innocence they saw because the world wrecked havoc on theirs. Lovely people beyond the dirty clothes and faces.
 
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birch said:
Some of the best people i have known with hearts of gold were homeless people. You can find gold and beauty in the most unlikely of places.
Out in the woods, they could have easily raped me and stolen from me but instead took me in, watched my belongings, made sure i was fed, warm and gave comfort and kindness.
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Well, it would seem there's an obvious solution to all the problems you have with people in mainstream society...
 
birch said:
Some of the best people i have known with hearts of gold were homeless people. You can find gold and beauty in the most unlikely of places.

Out in the woods, they could have easily raped me and stolen from me but instead took me in, watched my belongings, made sure i was fed, warm and gave comfort and kindness. Even i had nicer items and clothing than they did when i was homeless and there was not a hint of that type of shallow jealousy or turned me away assuming i was better off.

They were my first real experience of family and love. Its enlightening when you peer beyond the myriad fakeness and lies of society. They are more beautiful than any asshole or bitch with all the money in the world.

Honestly, the people who have mistreated and damaged me the most and were the most dangerous were not homeless people.

These people know what its like to be mistreated, abused or hurt which further goes to prove that abuse automatically produces abusers is a myth. I would say being an asshole has little to nothing to do with that in most cases. I think assholes are mainly produced from getting away with selfishness or its validated or its just their nature.

Now soberly, of course, there exists good and bad people in every level of society but even when i had some money, the homeless people did not try to manipulate me or steal it which blew me away in respect for them. I have however had people with money try to take advantage of me though many times.

Even when things got better for me or i had access to better my situation, they were not jealous or cruel or 'why you, what makes you so special?' they were happy for me and glad i was finally getting out of that situation and wished me well. Even them saying you dont belong here not as in they didnt accept me but they knew it was hard on me more than them as they were more used to it. Even if someone just accidently made a comment that could be construed as rude, they spoke up motheringly as they didnt want me to be more hurt. Its like they wanted to preserve whatever innocence they saw because the world wrecked havoc on theirs. Lovely people beyond the dirty clothes and faces.
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Sounds like you were part of a commune more than a homeless camp. Homeless people tend to shy away from others and keep to themselves for the most part. That is why they don't want to get free help from their communities that they live in. They know they will have to follow the rules which include curfews, no alcohol or drugs, follow the rules of wherever they might be given shelter and keep their areas clean and neat. The homeless have many psychological problems as well as physical ones. In group homes, shelters and wherever they are given places to stay these underlying problems are not addressed most of the time. The shelters that give free residences to homeless want to help but in most cases the homeless do not want help and never get any real rehabilitation. Of course there are some homeless that want the help and will use the shelters personnel to get out of trouble and find a better way to live. Those are few and far between.

You are only kidding yourself when you say that the homeless have hearts of gold for many times the homeless will not move along and stay out of peoples ways but are arrogant and fool hearty trying to panhandle for money they did not earn. We did not put them there but we try to help them if they want our help, few do. I've talked to a few of them when they approached me for a handout and most don't want advice but only money. As soon as they see you aren't going to give them anything they just walk away on to a new mark. They won't usually bother you but at times we see in the news about one of them getting into a fight with other homeless people or with citizens that don't want anything to do with them. So don't think for a minute they are all the same and always keep your guard up. You never know where the money you give them will end up, a bottle of booze or a drug fix are two most common.
 
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Randwolf said:
Well, it would seem there's an obvious solution to all the problems you have with people in mainstream society...
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No need to be an asshole. I see you ignored that statement that there are good and bad people in every level of society. Do you have some selfish problem with counting good people among the homeless?

If it is, thats your issue. Sounds like an ego trip.
 
cosmictraveler said:
Sounds like you were part of a commune more than a homeless camp. Homeless people tend to shy away from others and keep to themselves for the most part. That is why they don't want to get free help from their communities that they live in. They know they will have to follow the rules which include curfews, no alcohol or drugs, follow the rules of wherever they might be given shelter and keep their areas clean and neat. The homeless have many psychological problems as well as physical ones. In group homes, shelters and wherever they are given places to stay these underlying problems are not addressed most of the time. The shelters that give free residences to homeless want to help but in most cases the homeless do not want help and never get any real rehabilitation. Of course there are some homeless that want the help and will use the shelters personnel to get out of trouble and find a better way to live. Those are few and far between.

You are only kidding yourself when you say that the homeless have hearts of gold for many times the homeless will not move along and stay out of peoples ways but are arrogant and fool hearty trying to panhandle for money they did not earn. We did not put them there but we try to help them if they want our help, few do. I've talked to a few of them when they approached me for a handout and most don't want advice but only money. As soon as they see you aren't going to give them anything they just walk away on to a new mark. They won't usually bother you but at times we see in the news about one of them getting into a fight with other homeless people or with citizens that don't want anything to do with them. So don't think for a minute they are all the same and always keep your guard up. You never know where the money you give them will end up, a bottle of booze or a drug fix are two most common.
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No, they were homeless but not in a shelter.

And i never said they didnt have problems. I said there are very good people among the homeless too.

Many of these people cant function in society due to their problems. They are often broken or had very abusive pasts.
 
This is what i mean by the insensitive assholery, snobbishness and elitism.

Maybe if reincarnation was real, you could take their place and have been born in a very dysfunctional home with horrible abuse, neglect and lack of nurturing or proper guidance and see how you hold up or succeed.

Id like to see how many of you would not turn to the bottle or possibly drugs to numb the pain or extreme low self esteem.

For people who are supposedly so smart, rather dumb. Be careful how you point fingers because it could have been you.

Instead you could just be grateful for the advantages that you have over some others. Not use it as an excuse to be some arrogant prick to condemn or look down your noses or how they are such problems which is laughable. Dont forget people in mainstream society has enough problems and faults to point out til the crows come home.
 
There are homeless people that have completely rejected society, dont trust it or dont want to function in it. Some are very disturbed and some just cant function. They would rather live out in the wild or they see it as some level of freedom/semblance of life than be locked up in an institution which i tend to agree as the latter is horrible as long as they arent committing crime.
 
People need to understand that when a person has extreme mental or emotional problems, they cant function except in the most rudimentary way.

It would take years and years of therapy for some people and some are a total lost cause.

The other thing i think is heinous is how society views homeless people as separate and disown them. They are caused by society too. You can liken them as receptacles for where someone purged all their refuse unseen so they didnt have to deal with it like anger, frustration, stress, hate etc on them. This is why almost all the chronicly homeless usually came from very abusive and sad homes.

You people are intelligent and understand complexity then you should consider.

For instance, there was a time when i could not function whatsoever at all. I was plagued by severe ptsd it seemed every waking moment of my life and extreme low self esteem and eventually i became homeless. Since i know my life, i knew what contributed to this downward spiral. My family was extremely and pervertedly abusive dumping and purging their frustration and stress or feelings they didnt want to process onto me through abuse. You would never know they were the real problem or culprit because they felt fine using a scapegoat. Of course they could function because they poured all their poison onto me relieving themselves. They had normal jobs, went to church and considered good citizens though behind closed doors it was something else.

I was working through their shit not just mine which was a heavy damaging load to bear. They stole my life as i was in and out of homelessness for years went through many dark nights of the soul and soul searching to get through it holding onto whatever bit of light i had left in me. One of the reasons i was able to is partly my intellect and my personality but not everyone is capable of insight even into themselves or can reason what or who caused what to let the truth set you free instead of just letting it completely destroy you and turn to drugs or alcohol.

Abusers steal your life by dumping their problems onto another. I know why these people are homeless (not just the ones who lost their job due to economy) but homeless because no one cared for them. But did i do what they did and predate on others? No, it was going to end there. At least with the homeless, they may not be able to function but they sure are not the real source of the problem. They are a symptom. Is this what you would rather condemn? psychotic sociopaths who damage people leading them to brokenness and homelessness as long as they can wrangle a false front of good citizenry while the victim is condemned as unproductive and useless? They were purged onto like a toilet and then society says 'eww' looking at them while the perpetrators are unknown and get away with it. The most dangerous and ugly hearted people are not those who commit crimes on just the physical level but on the mental and emotional level.

It would make you sick to know there are highly intelligent people but who are extremely primitive and unevolved spiritually. They do the sickest things. They knew how to abuse me so no one could 'see' it at church or school. It was always whats wrong with her. Why is she acting so strange? Why is she so depressed etc? Always focusing blame on victim. This is exactly what predators were aiming for and to not be suspect but the victim to be suspect. Same with the homeless but most dont even know that.

Appearances are decieving and there are all kinds of twisted machinations and dynamics that go on that unscrupulous people use to gain an advantage at anothers expense.

Furthermore, some people are born less blessed. Some have less intellect and some cant compete or adapt well. It is not their fault to be born with less advantages.

People take care of their pets like people. At least when it comes to the homeless, just understand there are complex reasons for the way they are even if you think that they have tools available to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. Most homeless are usually not dangerous, only a nuisance to society.
 
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birch said:
Maybe if reincarnation was real, you could take their place and have been born in a very dysfunctional home with horrible abuse, neglect and lack of nurturing or proper guidance and see how you hold up or succeed.

Id like to see how many of you would not turn to the bottle or possibly drugs to numb the pain or extreme low self esteem.

e.
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They need confidence and you might obtain confidence believing in Yeshua instead drugs or bottle.
 
birch said:
There are homeless people that have completely rejected society, dont trust it or dont want to function in it. Some are very disturbed and some just cant function. They would rather live out in the wild or they see it as some level of freedom/semblance of life than be locked up in an institution which i tend to agree as the latter is horrible as long as they arent committing crime.
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But they aren't really free for they still have responsibilities towards other people who choose to live their lives within a society. When one becomes homeless there are ways to get free help which many do but more do not. They become people that still needs to have the publics help with either hand outs or money. When people do not want to get help and want others to just give, give, give. that's what makes society aggravated. They want food, clothing and any help they can get for nothing while society must WORK for what it needs and wants. If the homeless are that friendly as you say it is because they need the handouts of people in order to survive. If they were mean they never would receive anything so they are trying to panhandle the fruits of the rest of societies earnings. So the homeless are in a way destructive to themselves and society for taxpayers must spend their taxes on trying to help the homeless when there are much more projects that are needed than that.
 
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cosmictraveler said:
But they aren't really free for they still have responsibilities towards other people who choose to live their lives within a society. When one becomes homeless there are ways to get free help which many do but more do not. They become people that still needs to have the publics help with either hand outs or money. When people do not want to get help and want others to just give, give, give. that's what makes society aggravated. They want food, clothing and any help they can get for nothing while society must WORK for what it needs and wants. If the homeless are that friendly as you say it is because they need the handouts of people in order to survive. If they were mean they never would receive anything so they are trying to panhandle the fruits of the rest of societies earnings.
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You are so naive. You really think a person who is mentally and emotionally healthy would willingly choose to live on the street dirty, looked down upon, dealing with cold and heat begging for handouts because they are just trying to pull the wool over society? As i told you most of these people never had anyone give a shit about them since they were born! On top of that, abuse and no proper guidance. Unless you had the same situation, do not preach to me about it.

I doubt you have really dealt with homeless as in understanding their backgrounds. All you focus on and begrudge is the crumbs they get which is assinine considering the amount of obscene waste and greed of mainstream society that just goes down the shitter.

Is someone is panhandling, you dont have to give them money.
 
birch said:
You are so naive. You really think a person who is mentally and emotionally healthy would willingly choose to live on the street dirty, looked down upon, dealing with cold and heat begging for handouts because they are just trying to pull the wool over society? As i told you most of these people never had anyone give a shit about them since they were born! On top of that, abuse and no proper guidance. Unless you had the same situation, do not preach to me about it.

I doubt you have really dealt with homeless as in understanding their backgrounds. All you focus on and begrudge is the crumbs they get which is assinine considering the amount of obscene waste and greed of mainstream society that just goes down the shitter.

Is someone is panhandling, you dont have to give them money.
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I'm only stating a few facts about the homeless, where am I wrong. Where do they get a free pass when others need to pay taxes to help them? I do understand about why SOME of them are in a very bad way but again there is help out there but they refuse to accept its dictates. I give some a free meal that I get from a fast food joint but I saw one guy just throw it away.
 
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