No just what is legally possible. How can you accept a UN resoultion that is a violation of the UN charter
No what is legally possible is that the Palestinians can't return to Israel but can be granted a state of their own. Its arguable if it violates the UN charter or not, clearly the UN felt they had the right and principle was made in good faith.
Yes you have shown that while all the reson ignoring why. they fought because of zionism a venture designed to steal from them and take away their rights. you have never proved that if they get what they are fighting for they would still be violent.
Kind hard to prove a hypothetical, the fact they were killing each other before hand, the fact the Palestinians tear Israelis asunder and dance in their blood is all we got to project on. At it core though the Israelis deserve the right to live under their own management instead of under others who were at least historically hostile to them. I'm all for a one state solution eventually once we can prove they can live with each other.
They attacked only after Israel began trying to expand and conquer everything.
No Israel accepted the partition outright, then the Arabs attacked.
they did so out of defensive reasons not offensive reasons. had Israel not invaded the rest of palestine they wouldn't have gotten involved.
First of all the other states were not "Palestine" (unless your accepting that arab state are the same people!) and they attacked because they wanted to rule over all of Palestine and Israel, the proof is in the fact they did rule over gaza and the west bank from the 1948 war to the 1967.
yeah just ignore what you don't like.
No, I don't have a clue what you were saying, you need to fix the grammar of something, because I can't understand that paragraph.
Well you think muslims shouldn't be allowed to build at ground zero
What? when did I ever say they shouldn't be allow to build at ground zero? Fuck I never even posted on that thread!
because of a few people's hate and you want the palestinians stripped of their legal rights something you have not demanded for all other refugees
I just don't want to strip the Israelis of their rights to be free and live, its would be a negative net gain in overall happiness, no utility in that.
Yes well calling your actions be descrided faithfully make you look like a child to me.
eeh, I don't care.
So its the arabs fault that Israel started trying to ethnically cleanse palestine before they got involved. and how does trying to stop something make ther action your trying to stop ok?
Clearly your prescribe to an alternate history, the Arabs were not protecting the Palestinians, they were protecting their own self interests, that why they ruled over what remained of Palestine for 20 years and put the Palestinians in camps. If the Arabs had cared about the Palestinians they would have integrated them in the surround arab nations fully.
and you wonder why I call you out as an Israel supporter. Israel took 75% of the addition land meaning than had around 80% palestine, THEY were the ones who expelled the palestinians,
And they took this after they won the war. It does not matter the I advocate a gradual one state solution or viable 2 state solutions, as long as I'm not with you fully on oppressing the "stealing" Jews, I'm an Israeli supporter.
they were the ones who prevented them from returning bit its not their fault. its the arabs fault for not wanting to suffer the cost Israel tried to inflict on them by denying them their rights.
The Israelis had rights too, why can't you see that, the arabs states tried to snuff them out, and when they couldn't they kicked out almost all of their jews, took the land for them selves bout ohh could'nt give that land they stole from the Jews to the Palestinians, that land was 3 times the total area of Israel!
Which denies both the jewish and palestinians their legal rights only for those who wish jews do have more rights than palestinians in palestine. for the people who want equal rights their are next to no problems at all.. First off its not my version of justice its following the law something that seems alien to you. probably because you refuse to try and understand it. IT will bring peace,freedcom, and happiness to both.
In the present state of things no, no it won't, to achieve a one state solution with these people we first need to reduce their hate, a gradual and painstaking process, I'm all for it once we can get them to live together peacefully and secularly.
The problem for you is it doesn't punish the palestinians enough for the crimes that zionists did against them. first off nations are people. and secondly no they don't at leaqst not in the way you think they do.
Nations are entires that are more then the sum of their parts, people are people.
no its a desription of the fact for any argument involving muslims and non-muslims you have always advocated for discrination or the denial of rights for the muslims.
Why do you lie like that? Is this like a reverse psychology ploy to get me to advocate for that horrible movie?
IF you show one time where you did not do so in the context of muslim and non muslim interactions I will personally ask for a 3 day ban.
Gee Aside for a thread I'm actively running about how Hollywood is shiting out another movie were whites are the protagoniest, Arabs/Indians are the the antiagonist (people who are assumed Muslim by Americas ignorant) I have advocated for muslims on many occasions for example Against targeting Muslims in airport security:
http://www.sciforums.com/US-Airport-Security-Question-t-39011.html
lets crap land. and under your proposal Israel get to keep the land they taken so they lose the best of it. and no strong way to build up an economy to get more production of food stuffs.
Its not my proposal, its the existing scenario, the west bank and gaza, mind you the west bank controls the majority of Israel and Palestinians water, giving palestinians power over the water would provided a strong way for building up an economy, heck it works for Lesotho.
its not for the nations to decide. Israel doesn't get a say the US doesn't get a say. No nation outside of the palestinian one gets to. THE PALESTINIANS get to decide. and don't act as if you don't think you have the right to decide when you make demands that require them not getting to decide.
No they don't get to decide, factual reality, here a test: can a Palestinian walk in to Israel right now and get their property back, demand is right to return and get it acknowledged?
so they can return to their cramped ghettos wow that's so gracious of you. or we could do what I want have have the law followed and they can return to their properties if they choose to do so.
I said "viable countries" not ghetto/camps. Having them return would require kicking out a whole bunch of people who live there, require putting another people under occupation, that brings no net benefit only more suffering.
quite strawmaning and libeling me. and quit playing a fucking moron. I have explained this to many times but fuck I will do it again. I don't think its moral but because their is no law(the whole self determination comment here is idiotic considering the whole concept of the self determination of nations hadn't happened yet.) their is no legal recouse. That a lie. the law said at that time that state could only beformed via self determination which is the people of a territory choosing their own politcal status. wrong wrong wrong. the arabs didn't screw up the fought for their rights. Its definitely Israel and the jewish people fault because they were the ones who advocated and did remove the palestinians.
And I keep repeating the facts: The israelis choose there political status as you say, ergo they had the right to form a state. The Arab nations attack, not israel. Jewish peoples fault?, All Jews of the world were for Israel?
except the Israeli have zero claim to self determination in palestine(well except the pre-zionist ones). basically your saying its ok to limit one people's right so another people can share it?
All peoples have a right to self determination, to form their own nation, does not matter where they are or where they came from.
first off Israel disagrees with you. secondly Israel is the illegal(in this case actually having nothing to do with the violation of the UN charter and their wars of conquest. illegal because it flies in the face of the definition of self deterimination) expression of "self dertermination" of the jews of the world.
Jews this jews that, yeah and the majority of Jews don't even live in Israel.
Right which why you said you didn't have a problem with the ISraeli proposal of them getting everything they have and stripping the palestinian state of most of the basic rights of states. and why is it if its the far less amount that arabs took its ok for them to get it back but if its the vastly greater part that jews took they can't. That is plain discrimination on your part.
I'm asking Israel to return the same amount the Arabs took, I think the quite fair.
So you think ignoring the main source of palestyinian anger is going to create peace. yes their made that their rights were taken from them so your solution is a paternalistic stripping of more rights yeah that's so going to work.
Giving them a state(s) and a path to unifying with Israel as a single state eventually is not striping them of rights, in fact it a means of achieve all your goals, merely delayed with time.
know its an accurate description of your beliefs. the assumption,insults , and libel go from you to me. where the insult or the assumption. you believe the jewish people have more rights they get to defend themselves and control their airspace the pals don't.
I have nothing against Palestine "defending" it self or controlling it airspace, just the whole suicide bombings and rocketing is not defending its self, its asinine. When Gaza and the west bank can be disconnect from Israel and stabilized I have not problem with them forming an army.
they get to keep stolen property the arabs don't get their stolen property back more rights. you wish to strip the palestinians of their right to choose to return to their property or get compensated everything I said was true.
The Arabs already took 3 times Israel in land area from all the jews they kicked out post the formation of Israel, they put the Palestinians on that, this whole thing would have been over.
First off it was a british manadate. and the vote is irrelevant. The un charter say states must be formed via self determination. ITs Israeli propaganda that the UN vote is relevant.
The UN approve the partition, the Israelis agreed and declared their independence, I think that satisfies your criteria.
it show intent to attack they did. had ISrael not gone out side of the area of the illegal partitian no arab army would have gotten involved.
Come on the Palestinians and Jews were killing each other in a civil war, the outside Arab states had not right to get involved.
they don't. they hit Israel because of the concept of custumary law in which when a law is becomes widely followed and accepted it applies to all states even those that don't sign it. and secondly the tenth treaty of Versailles and the peace treaty made at Potsdam that lead to the creation of the UN both were designed to be treated as custumary law.
Didn't stop the UN did it? Did it stop Israel declaring independence?, now you can arguing about interpretation of the law all you want, without it going through a court and it actually being judged on officially we won't know what was right or wrong, the historical facts are that Israel formed, it for out of civil war and outside intervention by 5 Arab states intent on taking the whole thing, and Israel won.
First off even if that were true it still wouldn't change the fact it has to be held accountable for its crimes which you argue a limitation on that the law doesn't recognize. secondly no Israel was never legit because it had nothing to do with self determination. But than again given you general view that arabs must pay for jewish/Israeli crimes it doesn't surprise me you'd say that.
The people choose to have their own state, that sound like self determination to me. Arabs don't need to pay for Israel crimes, just their own: they attacked and lost, they ruled over what was left of Palestine, they kicked out their own Jews and took everything, they refused to give the Palestinian refugees rights and end the suffering.
But you know I don't complain to the mods about your name calling, I honestly don't care, it just makes you look childish to me that all.