"Rand K. Peck, a captain for a large US airline, said: "I've observed matronly-looking grandmothers being practically disrobed at security checkpoints and five-year-old blond boys turned inside out, while Middle Eastern males sail through undetained."

Is it true that in the US you can only randomly search two arab looking men per flight?

Doesn't make much sense but i want to know if thisis true or not.

Thanks

(Here is an interesting article. I think it is paranoia but i am not sure yet : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/25/wfly25.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/25/ixworld.html

Why the focus on 'arab looking men'? For one, concentrating the search on anyone by the way you perceive their ethnic background would be a definite act of racism.

Secondly, after the OK city bombing, the first person arrested was an arab gentleman on a flight, who was detained for having 'bomb making equipment' in his briefcase (some scissors and sticky tape). Of course we all know OK was bombed by a homegrown white boy, Timothy McVeigh. Also this was the worst terrorist attack on US soil at that point in time. McVeigh was indoctrinated by the Michigan Militia. So what did the govt do about US 'Patriots' such as these militias? Did they start searching at least two rednecks boarding each plane?

Terrorism wasn't born on Sept 11th. Terrorism wasn't invented by 'arab looking men' either.

The author of that article by the way, is the typical post 9/11 racist, spineless piss pants yank. I'm apalled the Telegraph printed such junk. If you do your research on this one, you'll discover that the group of travellers were a band, there's a picture of them in a covering article on the WWW somewhere. So all that article was, was a spewing of her insecurities and prejudices, and hd she actually made more effort to research the facts, she'd have easily discovered the innocuous travellers' occupations. But then, she'd have perhaps felt embarrassed about being such coward.

/agree phlogistician all the way.

For what it's worth, the 9/11 commission report seems to support racial stereotyping in airport passenger screening (although they don't actually say it), and recommends biometric identification and new, secure standards for birth certificates, drivers licenses, and so forth. The reason given being that while no American can hide from his debt by changing his name, a terrorist can just toss his passport aside and change his name slightly and he's fine.

Personal note: My passport is filled with stamps from Indonesia and other places in south east Asia that seem to be considered 'dangerous'. Oddly enough, every single time i go through an American airport I'm subject to a 'random' search.

And I'll agree that it's embarressing that such an artical would be published. I'm sure that there are things far more terrifying than watching Syrian men go to the bathroom.

Personal note: My passport is filled with stamps from Indonesia and other places in south east Asia that seem to be considered 'dangerous'. Oddly enough, every single time i go through an American airport I'm subject to a 'random' search.
I know of a similar scenario. Being as geeky as I am, I'm very pale white; I travel every once in awhile (twice a year/two maybe, often out of the country, I go back to Russia for summers) I have never been searched beyond basic procedure. A friend of mine who is Israeli, slightly dark, short and well built is stopped and searched every time, usually several times, and 'randomly' strip-searched... from where I'm looking, the system is very biased.

... from where I'm looking, the system is very biased.

No shit? I got searched on the last internal flight I took. It was because of the way I was dressed. I was wearing black combat boots, and a pair of black combat trousers, because about 14 hours earlier, I'd just climbed a small mountain. So obviously, I was a threat to security, and needed frisking. The guy got all funny over my wallet chain, and said it could be used as a weapon. I laughed, and pointed out his tie, shoelaces, the rope handles on the shopping bag of the lady in front me, and the strap on the laptop bag of the guy in front of her could all be used as weapons too, so are these items to me removed too? Well, logic doesn't come into it when you're being singled out due to prejudice, so I had to check my wallet into the hold, which meant walking halfway across the airport and queing again.

I look Arabic (well Semitic to be exact, well am Hispanic) and I have never be searched.

update

The story still continues..the ambassador of Syria is also involved now. I somewhat think the same tough..This woman is paranoid and racist : http://www.womenswallstreet.com/WWS/article_landing.aspx?titleid=1&articleid=726

that insane! That Syrian band is a terrorist group base of the fact they are Arabic and “look suspicious”?

that insane! That Syrian band is a terrorist group base of the fact they are Arabic and “look suspicious”?

It's not insane. It's perfectly reasonable. It just so happens that right now the biggest threat is from Islamic extremists who are generally young middle eastern looking men. If the Oklahoma City bombing had been followed up by a world wide wave of terrorist attacks involving blond haired, blue eyed Americans, then I'd recommend searching them. But it wasn't. Meanwhile, young, middle eastern men are blowing shit up all over the world. Not subjecting them to extra scrutiny is absurd.

you are only seeing what your government(americans) wants you to see, although the iraqis kill like 50 people in a car bombing once a week approximately 36 americans are murdered each day

that racist! I look Arabic does that mean I’m a terrorist? What about Oklahoma City Bombing, the second most deadliest terrorist attack in Americas history? It was done by a white man!

*looks around* who are you yelling at??

... The guy got all funny over my wallet chain, and said it could be used as a weapon. I laughed, and pointed out his tie, shoelaces, the rope handles on the shopping bag of the lady in front me, and the strap on the laptop bag of the guy in front of her could all be used as weapons too, so are these items to me removed too? Well, logic doesn't come into it when you're being singled out due to prejudice, so I had to check my wallet into the hold, which meant walking halfway across the airport and queing again.
Wow, you've got guts. I get really intimidated when I get body searched, and it seems to happen a lot. It's not random, I always seem to set off the metal detectors somehow, even did it when I went into the Houses of Parliament a couple years ago. The thing is, last time I caught a plane (from Canada to UK), what set off the alarm was a chewing gum wrapper - as soon as the guy/woman saw I had that, they stopped searching me. :rolleyes:

Having read this woman's follow up artical, this is very absurd. The passangers ate MacDonalds, talked with each other, and went to the bathroom. The 'issue' is that she and others felt scared (The nation was just attacked; i don't blame them). But how is this still an issue? Why the hell are people on Capitol Hill talking about this? How is it that this woman feels that she has a cause? Someone ought to buy her a ticket for one of China's Airlines, or maybe even Geruda (Indonesia's main carrier). She'd see plenty of behavior that she wouldn't recognize then.

BTW, i just flew down from Calgary to Huston, and predictibly i was searched. I can empathize with phlogistician. I generally wear all black (I work in Theatre, it's pretty much dress code) and usually wear steel-toe boots. Now, this time i figured that i wouldn't get searched, because i have a new passport. All the stamps from China and Indonesia are gone. However, US customes apparently has a file on me, because they knew that i lived in Indonesia. I was searched there. Honestly, what the hell?

that's one of the reasons I have chosen not to visit that paranoid big brother police country aka the usa

Please don't visit; we have a lot of problems getting people through the metal detectors here if you haven't noticed ;)

that racist! I look Arabic does that mean I’m a terrorist? What about Oklahoma City Bombing, the second most deadliest terrorist attack in Americas history? It was done by a white man!

McVeigh was an aberation. The 'exception that proves the rule'. Why don't you try to cite another example of terrorist attacks against America or American interests by "white men"? You can't. The whole militia movement pretty much died out after the Oklahma City bombing. Islamic fundalmentalism is unique in the world and is at war with just about every group they come into contact with. Hindus, animists, Christians, Russians, Chinese, and of course, the US. Hell, they just attacked the US embasy Yesterday! Of course people from countries where these groups are active should be subjected to extra scutiny. I'm sorry if the fact that they tend to have a darker skin tone then most Americans offends you.

sure Arabic terrorist have dark skin that does not mean a attack won't come from a white guy, there are plenty of militia group here in there USA that want to terrorize people, just because Okalahoma City Bombing is the only well know cause does not mean more won’t come. Not only that there are Muslim fundamentalist that are white in fact they might use such people in the next attack know that because their white they aren’t as likely to get searched.

by the way the birimingham bombers and the unabomber were white.

the unabomber?

errr. nm beat me to it.

When is it ok to profile a group of people who are committing crimes? My knee jerk reaction is to say “better them than me search them”. That is not right the people who were acting suspicious deserve to be inconvenienced. The average Arabic person does not. If the only way to ensure fair treatment is to establish restrictive quotas saying that you are only allowed x% of searches to be of Arabic descent then that is the way that it needs to be to insure that they are not being harassed. If I a white Anglo Saxon male walk past the guards and say see I told you that they wouldn’t find the bomb then I can expect to spend some quality time with airport security. If the Syrians want to play mind games with their fellow passengers then they should expect to face the consequences of their actions.

sure Arabic terrorist have dark skin that does not mean a attack won't come from a white guy, there are plenty of militia group here in there USA that want to terrorize people, just because Okalahoma City Bombing is the only well know cause does not mean more won’t come. Not only that there are Muslim fundamentalist that are white in fact they might use such people in the next attack know that because their white they aren’t as likely to get searched.

by the way the birimingham bombers and the unabomber were white.

Jeez, I forgot about the Unabomber. But the birmingham bomber, when was that? In the 60's? He's not been too active lately has he?

Of course the terrorists might use a white guy (or girl even) as a knowing or unknowing patsy. That's why we need to be on the lookout for suspicious behavior and do some random searches and not search ONLY arab men. It doesn't change the fact that when you hear hooves, don't look for ZEBRAS!! If another terrorist attack is carried out by 18 arab men from countries known to sponsor terrorism because we where unwilling to search more than a certain percentage of arabs on a given flight, they'll be hell to pay.

So then are Arabic looking people suspicious?

Of course. Stop being so obtuse. Practically every terrorist act committed against the US or US interests has been committed by "arabic looking people". You remind me of Johny Dep in Secret Window. He's in this Podunk town looking for this detective friend of his played by that guy who used to play "Roc" (Charles S. Dutton) Now Charles Dutton is a big, bald, black guy. Johny describes him as "a big guy who kind of looks like a cop". He's the only black guy in the town! Leaving that out of the description is a sure sign of someone who's terminally PC, like you.

so then your a racist? what you want ever arabic looking person searched.

That's it. If I don't stick my head in the sand and pretend that the terrorists are a rainbow coalition; I'm a racist. Well, by your definition, I guess I am. But I do want every foreign national from a country that supports terrorism searched everytime he gets on a plane in the US. If all or most of these guys are "arab looking", too bad.

You know what... I could care less.

Searching planes from certain countries fine.

Detaining and searching Americans for looking a certain way... you just stepped back 100 years. I'm willing to live with the threat that one of these people might pose.

say but we did bring up examples of terrorist that were not Arabic. Perhaps not searching more widely will be our down fall when the next time they strike.

race has little to do with it - the terrorists in Bali were indonesian. The people they're fighting in Afganistan are mostly Afgans. The Jihad being fought is fought by radical muslims that can be of any race.

Airport security is a joke. Just after 9/11 I had to go through THREE check points in Frankfurt to fly to the US. I was then finally at the gate. I then saw a cleaner walking around with his cart. He had a box cutter on his belt and other tools that could potentially be used as a weapon. He looked arab too.

I'm not saying he would was a likely terrorist, but how easy it would be to smuggle weapons in in this manner.

That said, you don't really have to smuggle in any weapons. There are plenty of weapons on the airplane and they are provided for free.
Of cause the cutlery that you get with your meal doesn't look very menacing but you can kill with it anyway (the metal ones). However, it doesn't end here. There is even a sharper and more dangerous weapon on board of an airplane. Wine bottles. Brake the bottle like you would in a barfight and you have one mean motherfucker of a weapon in your hand. I don't want to bring any strange ideas into your mind, but if you ever get highjacked and feel helpless; brake your bottle and kick ass.

But I do want every foreign national from a country that supports terrorism searched everytime he gets on a plane in the US.

Need I remind you of America's history of funding terrorism in the UK and Ireland via NORAID? The USA actively and openly supported terrorism, but suddenly now you understand what it means, some of you start filling your pants and want to erode civil rights to protect yourselves. But that's a slippery slope;


"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."

(Martin Niemoller)

NORAID is not to my knowledge funded by the US government and I certainly have not supported them personally. Get your facts straight before you start your juvinile name calling. Your quote has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I'm not advocating putting all arabs in deathcamps, I'm simply saying it makes sense when looking for terrorists to search people from countries that support terrorism.

NORAID is not to my knowledge funded by the US government

As NORAID was registered as a charity, donations to it were tax deductable, therefore it's goals were endorsed by the US govt.

Get your facts straight before you start your juvinile name calling.

I have my facts straight. By making tax donations to NORAID tax deductable, it was every US tax payer funding terrorism in the UK, like it or not. So if you were a taxpayer during the troubles, some of _your_ money bought guns and bombs that killed British citizens. What juvenile name calling, btw?


Your quote has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Yes it does, are you think? If you first start profiling 'arabic looking men', and think that's OK, who gets profiled next?

I'm not advocating putting all arabs in deathcamps,

No, but do you have a problem with the treatment of the prisoners at Guantanemo bay either?

I'm simply saying it makes sense when looking for terrorists to search people from countries that support terrorism.

And round in circles we go. Like the USA supporting terrorism in the UK via NORAID, you mean?

BTW, all but three of the hijackers on Sept 11th were Saudis. NO action has been taken against Saudi Arabia, has it? So do you mean 'countries', or actually mean the USA should be able to arrest people for racist reasons?

My statement was that any one who acted suspicious should be treated the same. That is why I used myself as an example. I agree that once we begin profiling certain populations for special attention then the terrorist have won.

[QUOTE=phlogistician]As NORAID was registered as a charity, donations to it were tax deductable, therefore it's goals were endorsed by the US govt.

Please. That simply shows that our tax code needs reform. Plenty of wacko groups qualify for tax exempt status. That's not the same as an "endorsement" by the US government.


What juvenile name calling, btw?

The part that was edited out by the moderator. I responded to your post before he removed the juvenile name calling. If you look at the bottom of your post you'll see it plainly states it was edited to remove insults.


If you first start profiling 'arabic looking men', and think that's OK, who gets profiled next?

Any group with a high probability of commiting terrorism.

No, but do you have a problem with the treatment of the prisoners at Guantanemo bay either?

No, they're illegal enemy combatents caught fighting against our country.

And round in circles we go. Like the USA supporting terrorism in the UK via NORAID, you mean?

I agree, you are going round in circles. This argument is BS.

BTW, all but three of the hijackers on Sept 11th were Saudis. NO action has been taken against Saudi Arabia, has it? So do you mean 'countries', or actually mean the USA should be able to arrest people for racist reasons?

Always with the race baiting. Of course people from Saudi Arabia should be included among the countries of interest when profiling terrorists. However, action was not taken against the Saudi government because the Saudi government does not actively support terrorism. Although it's funding of Wahabi Madrasas across the world is, no doubt, contributing to the problem.

[QUOTE]

Please. That simply shows that our tax code needs reform. Plenty of wacko groups qualify for tax exempt status. That's not the same as an "endorsement" by the US government.

Of course it is. I'm sure there is some approval procedure before a group qualifies for charitable status, and it is not just handed out to anyone that applies. Therefore the work of NORAID was approved by the US government.

Any group with a high probability of commiting terrorism.

So, that means 'arabic looking men' once you exclude all the times white folk have committed terrorist atrocities in the USA.



No, they're illegal enemy combatents caught fighting against our country.

I beg to differ. They were defending Afghanistan against invasion. The USA is in breach of the Geneva convention and should be punished as a war criminal for detaining those soldiers without trial. There is no such thing as an 'illegal combatant', that's a contrived term, coined in a vain attempt to draw criticism from the abuse that is occurring. The Geneva convention clearly states that everyone captured must be treated according to the rules of the
convention until their status is ascertained. As these guys haven't been charged, or allowed legal counsel, that status has not been ascertained, and it is the USA that are acting illegally.