Yes we can!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by S.A.M., Aug 25, 2009.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    I slept with Faith

    Indeed, I won't trade being American until America demands it. You know, like that old relationship standard: "I love you. I won't leave unless you make me leave."

    And I'm really not sure what that will take. It's easy enough to say, "When my country becomes dangerous to me, I'm out." But what is the obligation to stay and fight for it? Will there always be a place to run to for the rest of my life?

    I'll figure it out when I have to. Another easy answer. For now.
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  3. superstring01 Moderator

    I kind of think that I'll be retiring to some banana republic like Chile (though not technically a banana). My 401k and IRA already have substantial savings and I'm only 30. I'm loath to consider how much they'll be taxed in 35 years to pay for the various debts the federal government has incurred.

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  5. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Gee. I would have loved to respond to that post in some kind of rational, fair way. I might even have agreed with a large proportion of it. But apparently I've been too hard on you - you know, my completely unreasonable responses to your slander - so I must decline.

    Enjoy your uncritical monopoly. You certainly worked hard for it.
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  7. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

    Geoff, you are most welcome to respond to Tiassa's post with rationality and fairness. Just move past the slander tangent, don't get distracted with personalities, remember the larger audience, remember Change We Can Believe in, remember the Alamo too, I don't give a shit just don't squabble like smelly little peasant boys and you'll be a credit to our hallowed, even sparkling halls of science.
  8. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Sorry, I don't go past unfounded slander; lies, in another word. Tiassa has worked very hard on portraying me as unwholesome - stupid, racist or dishonest - so that he can enjoy a position unchallenged by his "inferiors". He has what he wants - after a fashion - and so should celebrate. My interactions with him will now be delimited not by my ethical preference for completeness, but by expediency. Call it the no bullshit plan. Or: again, why would I bother? :shrug:
  9. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

    Can our high principles look down on Tiassa's. Yes We Can!

    You win the pissing contest! Now please returnt to our discussion of Obama's Presidency, with attention to Tiassa's unremarked post:

    I believe that Obama rose to burst our Machiavellian bubble. I realize with deep disappointment that he hasn't done yet. Not yet, but if you sir were standing in his place high atop this vast, puffed up, taut ology with the pin in your hand, well do you feel lucky, punk? Do you strike now?... w-wait.. now?
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    I've long been of the opinion that Obama - with much of the rest of even that fraction of the Democratic national legislature for which there is any hope (no Republicans in that category, AFAIK) - is playing another role in the ever-underestimated Machiavelli's scenes of political decision. And driftglass reminds us of the pithy formulations of the councilor's warnings re "bipartisanship" and the like:

    "And it will always happen that he who is not your friend will request your neutrality and he who is your friend will ask you to declare yourself by taking up arms. And irresolute princes, in order to avoid present dangers, follow the neutral road most of the time, and most of the time they are ruined."
    -- Niccolo Machiavelli

    Those who are not our friends long ago adopted a different strategy , and notice how even the former bastions of "liberal" ( aka "reality based" ) news reporting are swayed by the mere assertiveness and resolution - pandering to crazy is now presented (in the headlines, in the discussion, by assumption and given) as "a turn to the right" and "conservative", as if it were a matter of some kind of defensible philosophy or political ideology.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  11. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    "High principles"? How about just "Don't slander me, asshole"?

    But yes! Let us leave it behind. And speaking of behinds...

    Yes, We Can't.

    I'm sorry - or, rather, Ice and you will be writing rapidly back in to make me sorry - but I don't see much difference. Bush was stupid and unqualified, surrounded by nincompoops, pushing a war in the ME. Obama is unqualified, surrounded by some nincompoops, pushing a war in a different place. Clinton?...would have been nice, possibly, a little weak herself on foreign recognition compared to her husband - who was fine...except for that fucking idiotic embargo against Iraq. Awesome. And then on the back hand, we have McCain - Angry McQuickDraw - and Hagee lurking in the background.

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    So until I run for office, there's nobody. Best bet; ride out the storm and make sure you have an exit strategy on the tiny off chance that the new medical plan bankrupts the nation. (Thank Myuu for my passport.) And who knows? Maybe it won't suck.

    And we can't just run around saying "you right-wingers is insane" as a response. I appreciate that you're pissed off, but I've been there and everywhere, and it's no good. We need either foundation on individual rights, common sense, performance, and/or utility. Otherwise, what is it? A sense of outrage that weaves back and forth across the "silent majority" with increasing rage? That is not going to comfortably fly forever.

    Now that I've said my heretic piece: Rail, sirs! Rail and rage! It's only an opinion, and they're always changed by internet debates.

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