WTC7 - controlled demolition?

[Grumpy]

roscoe

So how do they know that the plane that crashed into the North Tower was American Airlines Flight 11?

You do know that aircraft parts have serial numbers, aren't you? It was the serial number of the axle of the truck used in Oklahoma that convicted Timothy McVeigh in a court of law, you know? Also, meticulous, detailed records are kept for all but the most trivial parts that go on those aircraft(hoses, clamps, screws and most(but not all)bolts, DO NOT have individual serial numbers which are kept in the documentation). The parts of the aircraft found in the rubble all matched that particular plane. Are you really that ignorant? This is the easy stuff.

You don't even know the simplest things about the events or the evidence, yet you know better than those who actually do know about what happened that day? And that seems logical and reasonable to you? You are a complete amateur at this, the goal is not to be so stupid and obnoxious that you get banned from yet another forum you have trolled. And if you hope to ever make any headway you need to read the relevant sections of the NIST report so you at least know what the evidence is.

NIST NCSTAR 1-5: Reconstruction of the Fires in the World Trade Center Towers
NIST NCSTAR 1-5A: Visual Evidence, Damage Estimates, and Timeline Analysis (Chapters 1-8)
NIST NCSTAR 1-5A: Chapters 9-appendix C
NIST NCSTAR 1-5A: appendixes D-G
NIST NCSTAR 1-5A: appendixes H-M
NIST NCSTAR 1-5B: Experiments and Modeling of Structural Steel Elements Exposed to Fire
NIST NCSTAR 1-5C: Fire Tests of Single Office Workstations
NIST NCSTAR 1-5D: Reaction of Ceiling Tile Systems to Shocks
NIST NCSTAR 1-5E: Experiments and Modeling of Multiple Workstations Burning in a Compartment
NIST NCSTAR 1-5F: Computer Simulation of the Fires in the World Trade Center Towers
NIST NCSTAR 1-5G: Fire Structure Interface and Thermal Response of the World Trade Center Towers
NIST NCSTAR 1-6: Structural Fire Response and Probable Collapse Sequence of the World Trade Center Towers
NIST NCSTAR 1-6A: Passive Fire Protection
NIST NCSTAR 1-6B: Fire Resistance Tests of the Floor Truss Systems
NIST NCSTAR 1-6C: Component, Connection, and Subsystem Structural Analysis
NIST NCSTAR 1-6D: Global Structural Analysis of the Response of the World Trade Center Towers to Impact Damage and Fire


NIST NCSTAR 1A: Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 *
NIST NCSTAR 1-9: Structural Fire Response and Probable Collapse Sequence of World Trade Center Building 7, Volume 1 and 2 *
NIST NCSTAR 1-9A: Global Structural Analysis of the Response of World Trade Center Building 7 to Fires and Debris Impact Damage *

They can all be read in PDF format here...

http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/wtc_finalreports.cfm

Grumpy

 

[billvon]

Am I a no planer? Yes and No.

I LOVE the no-planers! I especially like the no-planers who are claiming that the planes were actually super slow missiles with super secret hologram generators to make it LOOK like they were commercial airliners. Well, sort of missiles. Apparently they are sophisticated enough to fly at 600mph and generate holograms but not sophisticated enough to, you know, blow up the building. To make THAT happen, they had to shoot the missiles into the buildings, wait a few hours, then trigger the explosives they had secretly planted days/weeks/months before.

These people are a hoot.

 

[roscoe]

I LOVE the no-planers! I especially like the no-planers who are claiming that the planes were actually super slow missiles with super secret hologram generators to make it LOOK like they were commercial airliners. Well, sort of missiles. Apparently they are sophisticated enough to fly at 600mph and generate holograms but not sophisticated enough to, you know, blow up the building. To make THAT happen, they had to shoot the missiles into the buildings, wait a few hours, then trigger the explosives they had secretly planted days/weeks/months before.

These people are a hoot.

How about the FBI No Planers. They're the ones who found NO PLANE on any of the 64 videos they confiscated just after the crash into the Pentagon.

And that by the way is a FACT. It's all a question of whether you conduct a series of 'must-have-dones' or whether you take the available evidence and see NOWT.

Anyone for Tennis?

If you on the other hand are a PLANER then show-me-watcha-got?.

If you say there's a PLANE there then show me the PLANE. This ain't rocket science.

 

[billvon]

How about the FBI No Planers. They're the ones who found NO PLANE on any of the 64 videos they confiscated just after the crash into the Pentagon.

Here's a video of the plane crashing into the Pentagon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zac9vt3a4Ug

And that by the way is a FACT.

The facts? Facts are that they have a video of the plane crashing and they found bodies and pieces of the plane in the debris.

If you say there's a PLANE there then show me the PLANE. This ain't rocket science.

Here's a few people who saw the plane:

"I was in room 1B461. The plane's inertia carried aircraft remains all the way through the building coming to rest on the outside walls of our offices. We discovered cockpit wreckage at our feet while attempting to rescue people from a Navy operations area."

"On a service road that circled the Pentagon between the B and C rings, a chunk of the 757's nose cone and front landing gear lay on the pavement a few feet away, resting against the B Ring wall."

"The nose of the plane just barely jutted out into A/E Drive. It made a perfectly round, 5-foot hole in the wall. There was one set of landing gear out in A/E Drive. But most of the plane's skin was in pieces not much bigger than a piece of notebook paper."

"I thought it was a terrorist bomb. . . .But then I saw the landing gear. It was on the ground in the alley between the B and C rings. When I saw it there, not only did I realize an airplane had struck the Pentagon but it was clear that the plane had come through the E, D, and C buildings to get there."

Here are some pictures of the parts of the plane after the crash:

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Now, please, tell us the story about the super slow missiles with super secret 757 hologram generators! This time do it with a little more crazy.

 

[Russ_Watters]

Now I'm not sure what their angle is, but this 9/11 conspiracy theory site actually does a nice job putting together dozens of interviews of witnesses of the Pentagon crash:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html

[edit: Oh, looks like they favor an electronic takeover of the plane - apparently the gumment did it.]

 

[roscoe]

Here's a video of the plane crashing into the Pentagon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zac9vt3a4Ug




The facts? Facts are that they have a video of the plane crashing and they found bodies and pieces of the plane in the debris.



Here's a few people who saw the plane:

"I was in room 1B461. The plane's inertia carried aircraft remains all the way through the building coming to rest on the outside walls of our offices. We discovered cockpit wreckage at our feet while attempting to rescue people from a Navy operations area."

"On a service road that circled the Pentagon between the B and C rings, a chunk of the 757's nose cone and front landing gear lay on the pavement a few feet away, resting against the B Ring wall."

"The nose of the plane just barely jutted out into A/E Drive. It made a perfectly round, 5-foot hole in the wall. There was one set of landing gear out in A/E Drive. But most of the plane's skin was in pieces not much bigger than a piece of notebook paper."

"I thought it was a terrorist bomb. . . .But then I saw the landing gear. It was on the ground in the alley between the B and C rings. When I saw it there, not only did I realize an airplane had struck the Pentagon but it was clear that the plane had come through the E, D, and C buildings to get there."

Here are some pictures of the parts of the plane after the crash:

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Now, please, tell us the story about the super slow missiles with super secret 757 hologram generators! This time do it with a little more crazy.

Nope !!!!

don't see a PLANE.

It didn't even break the windows.

That wheel stub is next to C-Ring.

It had gone through three rings.

"Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filled with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center." - Donald Rumsfeld -

 

[Russ_Watters]

Nope !!!!

don't see a PLANE.

What's your game here? What are you trying to accomplish? Because you are all over the place - one minute you are pointing out that the plane apparently disintegrated and the next saying you want to see an apparently intact plane.

Yes, after the crash there was no intact plane to see, just lots and lots of mangled plane parts and body parts. That's what happens when a big aluminum can hits a steel and concrete building at 500mph!

If all you want here is to get banned, I'm sure you are soon to accomplish it.

 

[roscoe]

What's your game here? What are you trying to accomplish? Because you are all over the place - one minute you are pointing out that the plane apparently disintegrated and the next saying you want to see an apparently intact plane.

Yes, after the crash there was no intact plane to see, just lots and lots of mangled plane parts and body parts. That's what happens when a big aluminum can hits a steel and concrete building at 500mph!

If all you want here is to get banned, I'm sure you are soon to accomplish it.

This is your problem

You don't see what's in front of you.

Or you see what ISN'T there in this case.

Where is the wreckage?

 

[Russ_Watters]

This is your problem

You don't see what's in front of you.

Or you see what ISN'T there in this case.

Where is the wreckage?

Clearly, it is in front of the fire trucks - both on the ground and in the building. See the spray from the truck on the left? It is spraying the ground in front of the building. Some of the wreckage is there - most of it is inside the building.

Showing a far-away, poor angle photo that doesn't show close-ups of specific airplane parts because it was taken from far away doesn't make the pictures of airplane parts that were taken close-up go away and it doesn't make the hundreds of witnesses go away.

 

[roscoe]

Clearly, it is in front of the fire trucks - both on the ground and in the building. See the spray from the truck on the left? It is spraying the ground in front of the building. Some of the wreckage is there - most of it is inside the building.

Showing a far-away, poor angle photo that doesn't show close-ups of specific airplane parts because it was taken from far away doesn't make the pictures of airplane parts that were taken close-up go away and it doesn't make the hundreds of witnesses go away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtlzCyKbw5Q#t=39

The FBI confiscated 64 CCTV videos from the area. Not ONE showed a plane.

 

[Russ_Watters]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtlzCyKbw5Q#t=39

The FBI confiscated 64 CCTV videos from the area. Not ONE showed a plane.

Congratulations. You've proven that none of the CCTV cameras that were mounted on the building were facing the sky.

It seems your debate style is the 5 D's of dodgeball: you quoted my post, but didn't actually respond to it!

 

[billvon]

Nope !!!! don't see a PLANE.

Angie's List gives excellent recommendations for optometrists and ophthalmologists (If your blindness is organic, that is.)

It didn't even break the windows.

Right - it must have been a super slow missile with a super secret 757 hologram generator and a non-window-breaking warhead. It all makes sense now.

That wheel stub is next to C-Ring. It had gone through three rings.

So now it's a super slow missile with a super secret 757 hologram generator, carrying a non-window-breaking warhead, and filled with 757 wheel stubs.

Do go on! Don't leave us in suspense. Were there dead bodies in the missile too? Were space aliens involved? Black helicopters? Mind control rays?

 

[roscoe]

Congratulations. You've proven that none of the CCTV cameras that were mounted on the building were facing the sky.

It seems your debate style is the 5 D's of dodgeball: you quoted my post, but didn't actually respond to it!

But didn't the plane knock down five light poles?

 

[Russ_Watters]

But didn't the plane knock down five light poles?

It knocked-down some light poles, yes (not sure if it was 5 or not).

So now you admit you know it was a plane?

 

[roscoe]

It knocked-down some light poles, yes (not sure if it was 5 or not).

So now you admit you know it was a plane?

Oh no I've got evidence that the light pole incident was staged.

The statement was in response to you saying that the aircraft was too high to appear on the 64 CCTV videos. According to the Official story the plane was low enough to knock down the poles.

 

[roscoe]

Angie's List gives excellent recommendations for optometrists and ophthalmologists (If your blindness is organic, that is.)



Right - it must have been a super slow missile with a super secret 757 hologram generator and a non-window-breaking warhead. It all makes sense now.



So now it's a super slow missile with a super secret 757 hologram generator, carrying a non-window-breaking warhead, and filled with 757 wheel stubs.

Do go on! Don't leave us in suspense. Were there dead bodies in the missile too? Were space aliens involved? Black helicopters? Mind control rays?

Yes well that's all you BCTs have


must-have-dones.

 

[roscoe]

Here's a video of the plane crashing into the Pentagon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zac9vt3a4Ug



The facts? Facts are that they have a video of the plane crashing and they found bodies and pieces of the plane in the debris.



Here's a few people who saw the plane:

"I was in room 1B461. The plane's inertia carried aircraft remains all the way through the building coming to rest on the outside walls of our offices. We discovered cockpit wreckage at our feet while attempting to rescue people from a Navy operations area."

"On a service road that circled the Pentagon between the B and C rings, a chunk of the 757's nose cone and front landing gear lay on the pavement a few feet away, resting against the B Ring wall."

"The nose of the plane just barely jutted out into A/E Drive. It made a perfectly round, 5-foot hole in the wall. There was one set of landing gear out in A/E Drive. But most of the plane's skin was in pieces not much bigger than a piece of notebook paper."

"I thought it was a terrorist bomb. . . .But then I saw the landing gear. It was on the ground in the alley between the B and C rings. When I saw it there, not only did I realize an airplane had struck the Pentagon but it was clear that the plane had come through the E, D, and C buildings to get there."

Here are some pictures of the parts of the plane after the crash:

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Now, please, tell us the story about the super slow missiles with super secret 757 hologram generators! This time do it with a little more crazy.

Since you like eyewitnesses then here's what some said from the Pentagon.

A shockwave that was strong enough to knock people off their feet hundreds of feet from the center of the blast
The odor of cordite, an explosive compound
A bright silvery flash

Kerosine burning is orange.

So is this hole labelled PUNCH OUT where they carried your supposed evidence in?

Bit dark in there when you consider that a 100 ton aircraft had gone through it.


DER AIN'T NO PLANE!!!!!!!!!!!

Look I've been doing this with you BCTs for 12 years. Do you actually think I haven't already heard all your arguments?

I haven't got going yet.

 

[paddoboy]

DER AIN'T NO PLANE!!!!!!!!!!!

Look I've been doing this with you BCTs for 12 years. Do you actually think I haven't already heard all your arguments?

I haven't got going yet.

There was a plane, 100% certain, and most normal agenda free logical thinking people know that.
You havn't got going yet???? You mean there's another level to your trolling???
I could have an educated guess exactly where you are going.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lJZiqZaGA&feature=kp

 

[Grumpy]

roscoe

A shockwave that was strong enough to knock people off their feet hundreds of feet from the center of the blast
The odor of cordite, an explosive compound
A bright silvery flash

Kerosine burning is orange.

Ooh! Silver flames! Wait, those flames are bright orange! You're right, Kerosene burns orange. And if someone smelled cordite they were in some kind of time warp, cordite is a propellant used in British guns up to the end of WW2. It is not used today at all, for any reason. Plastique is an entirely different compound and leaves an odor that is nothing like cordite(I've smelled both).

Again, you are so bad at this that there must be some mental problems to explain the fact that you still dare show your face after such bone headed postings. You are so inept and idiotic that I feel embarassment that you are still included in the designation "Human".

DER AIN'T NO PLANE!!!!!!!!!!!

Says who, some ignorant dweeb on the internet that probably has never been anywhere close to the Pentagon and was probably still in diapers when the event occurred? Or would we get a different answer from the coroner and his helpers who had to remove and identify the human remains? DNA does not lie, that aircraft ended it's existence INSIDE the Pentagon. And the aircraft parts have their own, documented identification numbers, they matched that aircraft EXACTLY. There was a plane inside the Pentagon, the wings and engines were stripped off at the wall and were found on the front yard. Those are the facts. You are delusional.

Look I've been doing this with you BCTs for 12 years. Do you actually think I haven't already heard all your arguments?

No, I don't think you've heard any of the arguments that don't conform to your delusions. In one ear, out the other, as there seems to be nothing in between them. And you would think that you would be better at this stuff after 12 years, instead you are the worst advocate of woo we've ever seen. No plane at the Pentagon? Lies. Or ignorance. Your choice. Either way, wrong.

I haven't got going yet.

But you are about to, with an assist from our feet kicking your ass to the curb. Wait for it...

Oh no I've got evidence that the light pole incident was staged.

No, you do not. Claims, maybe, but no real facts.

THESE are the facts.

Grumpy

 

[roscoe]

roscoe

Ooh! Silver flames! Wait, those flames are bright orange! You're right, Kerosene burns orange. And if someone smelled cordite they were in some kind of time warp, cordite is a propellant used in British guns up to the end of WW2. It is not used today at all, for any reason. Plastique is an entirely different compound and leaves an odor that is nothing like cordite(I've smelled both).

Again, you are so bad at this that there must be some mental problems to explain the fact that you still dare show your face after such bone headed postings. You are so inept and idiotic that I feel embarassment that you are still included in the designation "Human".



Says who, some ignorant dweeb on the internet that probably has never been anywhere close to the Pentagon and was probably still in diapers when the event occurred? Or would we get a different answer from the coroner and his helpers who had to remove and identify the human remains? DNA does not lie, that aircraft ended it's existence INSIDE the Pentagon. And the aircraft parts have their own, documented identification numbers, they matched that aircraft EXACTLY. There was a plane inside the Pentagon, the wings and engines were stripped off at the wall and were found on the front yard. Those are the facts. You are delusional.



No, I don't think you've heard any of the arguments that don't conform to your delusions. In one ear, out the other, as there seems to be nothing in between them. And you would think that you would be better at this stuff after 12 years, instead you are the worst advocate of woo we've ever seen. No plane at the Pentagon? Lies. Or ignorance. Your choice. Either way, wrong.



But you are about to, with an assist from our feet kicking your ass to the curb. Wait for it...



No, you do not. Claims, maybe, but no real facts.

THESE are the facts.

Grumpy

None of which came from American Airlines Flight 77

It never took off that day and no flight plan was ever filed.

A provable and demonstrable FACT

In anticipation of your next question

'Well where did these things come from'

Answer

Dunno, need a new inquiry since we haven't had a proper one yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvavRkDIQW8