exchemist
Valued Senior Member
This was 18 months ago, by the way.
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Write4U's wobbly world of word salad woo
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Give me an example of something that has no value of any kind! It does not exist! Please, I am asking.Obviously not.
You are mad.
Quantum is a mathematical expression.! Can you do smaller? Planck scale is a mathematical expression! Astatine is the shortest lived atom, but it has a radioactive value as long as it exist physically. When it decays it no longer exists and has no intrinsic value of any kind.
I have been thinking about this expression that a "map is not the terrain". Well duhhh.
A map is a piece of paper with mathematical directions to the mathematical coordinates where an object, mountain, lake, gold mine may be found. A map is a mathematical instrument that can guide you to an existing physical object . It never claims to be anything else!
The entire expression is a false (cheap) equivalence if the example is used as a geological instead of a geometrical instrument. There may be a side note with a measurement or some information of what may be found at specific global coordinates, but a map is never the terrain, that fact is obvious . (warning, rattle snake country)
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Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
No, since the sentence does not make sense.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
No it isn't. You are not even using the term correctly.
"Quantum" when paired with "Physics" is talking about the the approach to understanding the universe on the atomic scale which is different to classical physics which came before it.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Or not. A map tells you where something is in relation to something else, it is useful but you can use a map without any numbers on.
Lakes, rivers, town boundaries, contour lines, motorways and where land meets the sea do not have to have numbers.
These things can all have names, in English.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
You certainly have not been posting like you accept that statement.
For instance Tegmark thinks the map IS the territory, are you now saying his thesis is bullshit?
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
None of this makes any sense. ("Quantum is a mathematical expression" is a particularly silly statement.)
You are mad.
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exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Not only that but it bears no relation whatsoever to what you were pointing out at the time (18 months ago! ), which was that heat is an emergent property of atoms and molecules collectively and thus is nothing to do with the wave functions of QM. There was no mention by you or me at that time of "measurements" or "values", so obviously neither you nor I was "telling" him anything about those.
Why does he seize, now, on an 18month old post of yours to raise this total non sequitur about measurement and values? It can only be because something has gone FUNGG!! in his mind and triggered another reflex to start turding on, yet again, about his mathematical universe religion.
I see by the way that quorum sensing has also made another appearance:-
He is forbidden from mentioning microtubules (thank God), so what next, I wonder.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Just illustrate my point. Below is a map of Manchester, you will see no numbers except for the road numbers. Are they important? No because no one actually knows the road numbers as they do not refer to any feature of that road.
The M60 for instance is a Motorway but it is also called "The ring road" as it goes all the way round the city.
The M25 is called the London Orbital, it is also called “the road to hell” because that is what it feels like when you are on it.
The A662 is called Ashton New road, you can deduce that there must be an “old road” and there is.
So, besides the roads you have areas, the city, parks, cloughs, places of interest like museums, lakes, green areas and built up depending on the colour.
No maths, in fact I could draw a map and would not be to scale, it does not need to be, anyone ever given you a hand drawn may to get to somewhere?
Was it to scale? In proportion? Did it need to be?
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Are you telling me that This is a false statement?
This is not a mathematical statement? Is Wiki factually wrong in describing this definition?
But I am not pairing quantum with physics. I am pairing quantum with mathematics.
No you can't. Without a mathematical scale (legend) a map becomes useless (is an inch a mile, 10 miles, 100 miles?)
Yes they do. Coordinates are described with numbers. Without numbers GPS is useless. It is the coordinate numbers that allows us to drop a bomb precisely on a target, not a crook in the road.
No , I have not. Where have I said that placing your fingers on the map you can scrape enough mud to build a home? That would be the terrain, the geology, not the geography. A map is a piece of paper that indicates geometrical coordinates. It is a mathematical instrument.
I think you are mis-interpreting MUH. As I understand Tegmark, he simply breaks down the relational values and forces that are causal to universal dynamics. That is why human symbolic mathematics are so "reasonably" effective. The numbers work, even when codified for human use.
I agree! They don't refer to the terrain! They refer to geometrical coordinates relative to each other. It's the maths, not the consistency of the terrain or the rocks in the road.
But you are not describing the terrain. You are describing "locations". Locations are geometrical coordinates.
Was it to scale? In proportion? Did it need to be? Yes.
Really?
"You go west (pointing) 4 blocks, turn right (north), go another 10 blocks until you come a bakery. I the back there is a warehouse filled with flour, and that where you wil find the guy who makes the best doughnuts in the world. If you see a great Oak tree, you have gone too far past your (coordinate) "destination" and need to turn back.
If it has rained and the road (the terrain) gets really muddy, you might get stuck for a week. Make sure you ask the locals what the conditions of the terrain are before you venture out into the wilderness and into the bog (the terrain).
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Relativity is a mathematical discipline that encompasses two interrelated physics theories by Albert Einstein: special relativity and general relativity12. Special relativity applies to all physical phenomena in the absence of gravity2. General relativity, which extends special relativity by taking gravity into account, has complicated mathematics345.
Quantum theory is a mathematical discipline12345. It has applications in various fields, including sustainability efforts and technology2. Quantum mathematics is also used to enhance awareness and relationships in everyday life3. Researchers continue to explore the physical meaning of fundamental quantum principles and push the boundaries of quantum descriptions4.
What else is there that is NOT mathematical in essence?
Quantum theory is a mathematical discipline12345. It has applications in various fields, including sustainability efforts and technology2. Quantum mathematics is also used to enhance awareness and relationships in everyday life3. Researchers continue to explore the physical meaning of fundamental quantum principles and push the boundaries of quantum descriptions4.
What else is there that is NOT mathematical in essence?
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
I am saying that you use scientific words incorrectly.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Well that's wrong too. We have quantum physics, we have quantum chemistry, more recently we have quantum biology, we do not have quantum mathematics.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
So all the maps they used before, satellites, GPS and accurate distance and proportions did not work?
No one on the planet using maps had a clue where anything was?
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
What co-ordinates do I need to go from the ring road to Ashton?
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Nope. I have drawn maps for my son and my grandparents for me that involved ZERO maths, no numbers just names.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
But had nothing to say on that thread, the actual paper?
..
Unintelligible garbage.
I'm afraid sir.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Is a metaphysical apparition? He has no measurable physical properties? Ahhhh, he is a fictional character. So are pink unicorns.
Never seen this before. Can you "describe" the location where this specific terrain is observable and the soil testable for physical minerals?
Geometrical coordinates would get me there in a jiffy. Kinda in straight lines as the crow would fly.
Is the shortest distance between 2 point a physical value measurement or a mathematical value measurement?
Question: Are natural calculations (causalities) possible without the presence of environmental values? That "measurable value" what came was deterministic of that what was to follow. A physical interaction of "indetermined values"? Randomness, every deterministic action?
Science is pure guess-work? A cosmic bumper car circuit? Oops , forgot. A circuit is a mathematical object with an infinite ratio, not MASS!
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