Will the meek Hinduism survive?

[spookz]

HINDU TEMPLES - WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM

SUMMING UP

Starting with Al-Bilãdhurî who wrote in Arabic in the second half of the ninth century, and coming down to Syed Mahmudul Hasan who wrote in English in the fourth decade of the twentieth, we have cited from eighty histories spanning a period of more than twelve hundred years. Our citations mention sixty-one kings, sixty-three military commanders and fourteen sufis who destroyed Hindu temples in one hundred and fifty-four localities, big and small, spread from Khurasan in the West to Tripura in the East, and from Transoxiana in the North to Tamil Nadu in the South, over a period of eleven hundred years. In most cases the destruction of temples was followed by erection of mosques, madrasas and khãnqãhs, etc., on the temple sites and, frequently, with temple materials. Allãh was thanked every time for enabling the iconoclast concerned to render service to the religion of Muhammad by means of this pious performance.

HINDU TEMPLES

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by UltiTruth
I still am not clear if you are calling my post as "being out of ignorance"?!

Of course not, i regard it as your point of veiw just as my reply was mine.
Ignorance means not knowing or being aware of ones real position as a soul and taking the phenomenal, temporal body to be the self.

Srimad Bhagavad Gita;

na tv evaham jatu nasam
na tvam neme janadhipah
na caiva na bhavisyamah
sarve vayam atah param

Chapter 2, Verse 12.
Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati

Chapter 2, Verse 13.
As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.

Study the BG, you will understand.

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[UltiTruth]

Fortunately, I have the opportunity of reading the Bhagavad Gita in its original language, listen to it in the native tone, and can also recite a verse or two. (And incidentally, I started a Gita thread on this board! )

But since you have internalized the Gita and know you are indestructible, would you watch in peace if somebody attacks your house, beats you up and ransacks all the furniture?

Reality check, Jan!

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by UltiTruth
Fortunately, I have the opportunity of reading the Bhagavad Gita in its original language, listen to it in the native tone, and can also recite a verse or two. (And incidentally, I started a Gita thread on this board! )

But since you have internalized the Gita and know you are indestructible, would you watch in peace if somebody attacks your house, beats you up and ransacks all the furniture?

Reality check, Jan!

I too am fortunate enought to read BG in its original language and listen to it in native tone, and can recite a verse or two, so we have something in common.

What is the point of your question?
Could you please put me in the picture?

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[everneo]

Lord Krishna gave permission to protect yourself only against agression and at the same time tried maximum to avoid bloodshed.

He also told He resides in every living/non-living being.

 

[UltiTruth]

Originally posted by Jan Ardena
What is the point of your question?
Could you please put me in the picture?

The whole point of this question (and the thread) is whether softer religions and their followers should take any proactive/aggressive steps to protect their faith and themselves against aggressions by the more vociferous/monotheistic ones.
Of course, resistance could be in a large number of ways.

 

[Panther]

Religious Isolationism

Should these eastern religions practice traditions and culture in isolation...

Yes they should be more aggressive; however, wouldn't it be better to convert than murder...if murder is the only answer and the excuse just happens to be that he/she does not believe in there "Deity"...isolation...meditation; however, who really wants to be a monk all the time; probably just the monks? right...not that there anything wrong with that...priest, monk, guru...whatever you might call it...

 

[spookz]

ulti
did you notice how i morphed into a right wing hindu fundamentalist? lot of fun to be had!! check out the jesus in india thread!

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by UltiTruth
The whole point of this question (and the thread) is whether softer religions and their followers should take any proactive/aggressive steps to protect their faith and themselves against aggressions by the more vociferous/monotheistic ones.
Of course, resistance could be in a large number of ways.

It depends on what you think "religion" is, my understanding of religion has very little to do with mundane physical life, but because we are superficially physical beings we interpret religion according to our understanding.
Religion is a set of rules and regulations designed to elavate man to the status of a fully conscious human being, i.e. to understand his true origin and the source of that origin. The scriptures, such as the bible and the Qur'an state these rules and regulations and how they should be applied at those times. The mistake the muslims and christians are making, imho, is that they are not applying themselves only to the rules and regulations in this time, as stated, but applying themselves to the methods, as prescribed in that time, now. This is why i think there is so much discontent.

Like any subject, if you do not see it (religion) through, you cannot in truth claim to be religous as set down in your scripture.

e.g. if i wanted to become a qualified doctor and therefore bona-fide, i would have to study for the required period, then take an exam, and if i passed the exam, then and only then can i be called, doctor.

Sooooo, your question is mis-directed, it should not be directed at "religion" as real religion is non-sectarian, it discriminates between different levels of consciousness as opposed to different organisations.

Reality check?


Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[UltiTruth]

Originally posted by Panther
Should these eastern religions practice traditions and culture in isolation...

East is as far to the West as West is to the East!

wouldn't it be better to convert than murder...if murder is the only answer and the excuse just happens to be that he/she does not believe in there "Deity"...isolation...meditation
Hinduism neither converts not murders!

... however, who really wants to be a monk all the time; probably just the monks? right...not that there anything wrong with that...priest, monk, guru...whatever you might call it...
So you thought India had 700 million MONKS? Hindus are simple little humans, Panther!

Originally posted by spookz ulti
did you notice how i morphed into a right wing hindu fundamentalist? lot of fun to be had!! check out the jesus in india thread!

I was following the thread and also made a post, spookz!
Poor Randalfo found an Indian Hindu on a conversion mission in LA, I guess! How did you enjoy being a Hindu and a rare aggressive one at that?

Originally posted by Jan Ardena
Sooooo, your question is mis-directed, it should not be directed at "religion" as real religion is non- sectarian, it discriminates between different levels of consciousness as opposed to different organisations.
Reality check?

No conflict on your philosophy, Janardana, er... Jan Ardena.
Did I direct it on any religion? But you didn't answer me on my question. What would you do if somebody barges into your home? be a Gandhi or resist? And what would you expect a Hindu to do when he finds a part converted temple?- there are hundreds in India. (did you see spookz' link on temples? I have seen a few dozen temples myself!) Is or isn't faith-protection a part of one's karma- since you are just "nimiththa matra"?

Thanks

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by UltiTruth
No conflict on your philosophy, Janardana, er... Jan Ardena.

Ah! You get it.
I was hoping somebody would.
What do you think?

Did I direct it on any religion?

“Atleast 15 Hindu men were killed over a period of a few months, in the city of Hyderabad by a group of 4 muslim youth. The reason?- religious hate.”

It would seem you did.

What would you do if somebody barges into your home? be a Gandhi or resist?

As I have no experience of this situation, it would be hard for me to say what I would do, but I am pretty sure my initial reaction would be one of fear, and anything can happen in that time-frame.
It would depend on the person, what state of mind would he/she be in, would I be able to detect any kind of rationale, would he be ranting and raving, would he be big or small, would he have a gun, a knife, a baseball bat, an HIV needle, would I be asleep, awake, on the toilet, in my studio……what?

You see, your question does not relate to mental speculation, for me to even begin answering your question I would have had to have had some similar experience, and even then my answer would only be speculation.

And what would you expect a Hindu to do when he finds a part converted temple?-

I wouldn't expect anything in the sense that it is outside my experience. I could say something based on government law, religious law, my law or opinion, but when emotions are so high and tempers flare into ungodly rages, when reason has left the building, my feeble, unexperienced solutions i think would only increase such anger. Also, hindus are not all the same, one may act this way and one may act another way.

Is or isn't faith-protection a part of one's karma-

What do you mean by “faith-protection”, when you have faith your consciousness is in someway protected, depending on the strength of such faith.
Are you talking about protection of physical manifestations such as body, family, society, nation and so on?
If so, these violations will always be there, in every aspect of society at virtually all times, they cannot be stopped, and they will seriously test ones faith, but I don't see how you can protect your faith by trying to stop these things.

since you are just "nimiththa matra"?

What does that mean?

Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[Panther]

UltiTruth

I was talking about people who murder hindu's for religious reasons; not the opposite

I have full respect for Hindu's....and many other religions...

Very funny I kinda do see Hindu's as monks...all 700 million of them... Ha Ha...

Much Respect
Best of Life...

 

[spookz]

actually dude a sizable percentage of that figure are clerks at your local 7-11/cornershop!

 

[Rick]

Jan ,

You say you have read Geeta and you dont know what Nimith Matra is?...i am surprised seriously...



Btw.I didnt read the whole thread i confess.But Ulti,
we talked about the tenth Incarnation isnt it?this Tenth one is going to do just great Job i am sure.it will be one of the most powerful one i can assure you...



bye!

 

[Rick]

And remember,
MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH


BYE!

 

[UltiTruth]

zion,
Guess that is right.
If religious ethnic cleansing for a thousand years could not destroy the philosophy, the spirit and not even the rituals, I guess that itself is divine!
It does pain sometimes, though!

Anyways

 

[UltiTruth]

Panther:
Assuming you are an American, do you know that a third of all software engineers, a quarter of all doctors in the US, and a quarter of all NASA scientists are all Indian monks? (including the lady monk that died in Columbia! )

Originally posted by Jan Ardena
Ah! You get it.
I was hoping somebody would.

Easy one

Did I direct it on any religion?
“Atleast 15 Hindu men were killed over a period of a few months, in the city of Hyderabad by a group of 4 muslim youth. The reason?- religious hate.”
It would seem you did.

Wasn't that Religious Hate than Religion, Jan?

What would you do if somebody barges into your home? be a Gandhi or resist?
As I have no experience of this situation, it would be hard for me to say what I would do, but I am pretty sure my initial reaction would be one of fear, and anything can happen in that time-frame.
It would depend on the person, what state of mind would he/she be in, would I be able to detect any kind of rationale, would he be ranting and raving, would he be big or small, would he have a gun, a knife, a baseball bat, an HIV needle, would I be asleep, awake, on the toilet, in my studio……what?
You see, your question does not relate to mental speculation, for me to even begin answering your question I would have had to have had some similar experience, and even then my answer would only be speculation.

So you would ask the murderers for some time to ponder and then decide?- you mean think without the head upto the throat level?

And what would you expect a Hindu to do when he finds a part converted temple?-
I wouldn't expect anything in the sense that it is outside my experience. I could say something based on government law, religious law, my law or opinion, but when emotions are so high and tempers flare into ungodly rages, when reason has left the building, my feeble, unexperienced solutions i think would only increase such anger. Also, hindus are not all the same, one may act this way and one may act another way.

The question is not 'how they would', rather 'how they should'! (they never did anyway. Last month, an idol in a temple was destroyed. Did you hear that?- like you did about that dilapidated mosque being scaled a few years ago?)
So you would appoint a lawyer to study the country's laws?

Is or isn't faith-protection a part of one's karma-
What do you mean by “faith-protection”, when you have faith your consciousness is in someway protected, depending on the strength of such faith.
Are you talking about protection of physical manifestations such as body, family, society, nation and so on?
If so, these violations will always be there, in every aspect of society at virtually all times, they cannot be stopped, and they will seriously test ones faith, but I don't see how you can protect your faith by trying to stop these things.

The Gita says you only act, the motive being God's. So if you resist, even then you are only following the Supreme. No?

Reality Check, Jan!

 

[Jan Ardena]

UltiTruth.

Wasn't that Religious Hate than Religion, Jan?

Between hindu and muslim.

So you would ask the murderers for some time to ponder and then decide?- you mean think without the head upto the throat level?

What a silly question, you never mentioned the intention of the intruder, that was the reason of all the possible scenarios, plus I mentioned nothing about dialouge.

Think without the head up to throat, what are you talking about?

The Gita says you only act, the motive being God's. So if you resist, even then you are only following the Supreme. No?

You’ve lost me here, what is this statement in relation to, and could you show me where it say we only act, and the motive is Gods, thanks.

Reality Check, Jan!

Errrrrrrrr……………..nope, this statement still means nothing to me, even the second time around, I’m afraid you’ll have to spell it out.

Zion, Jan ,

You say you have read Geeta and you dont know what Nimith Matra is?...i am surprised seriously...

There are a lot of things I don’t know, believe it or not sanskrit is not my first language.
I am interested in God, this is why I read Gita, I know some sanskrit verses by art, but I am not a sanskrit scholar.
But if you are prepared to inform me as to its meaning, then I will know what it means for future reference.


Love

Jan Ardena.

 

[UltiTruth]

Originally posted by Jan Ardena
UltiTruth.

Wasn't that Religious Hate than Religion, Jan?

Between hindu and muslim

Correct, and not Hinduism and Islam

So you would ask the murderers for some time to ponder and then decide?- you mean think without the head upto the throat level?

What a silly question, you never mentioned the intention of the intruder, that was the reason of all the possible scenarios, plus I mentioned nothing about dialouge.

Rarely do intruders display their statement of Purpose! But anyway, would you grade the intruder based on his intention, before proceeding with a Plan of Action that fits into your overall strategy based on...?
Anyway, the intention is quoted by you elsewhere.

Think without the head up to throat, what are you talking about?

Did you follow the first part of the thread, Jan?

The Gita says you only act, the motive being God's. So if you resist, even then you are only following the Supreme. No?

...could you show me where it say we only act, and the motive is Gods, thanks.

What? Isn't this central to Gita? Jan!!!

Reality Check, Jan!
Errrrrrrrr……………..nope, this statement still means nothing to me, even the second time around, I’m afraid you’ll have to spell it out.

Philosophy...fine. How about reality, Jan?

Thanks

 

[Jan Ardena]

Originally posted by UltiTruth
Correct, and not Hinduism and Islam

Then why mention their religions, why not say 2 people, and why was it a case of religious hatred?
Where in their religions does it instruct them to hate the opposing religions.

Rarely do intruders display their statement of Purpose!

So why did you use the term “murderer”?
Do you believe that every intruder has murder in mind?

But anyway, would you grade the intruder based on his intention,

If he was a murderer, I wouldn’t need to, would I?

Anyway, the intention is quoted by you elsewhere.

No it isn’t.

The Gita says you only act, the motive being God's. So if you resist, even then you are only following the Supreme. No?

...could you show me where it say we only act, and the motive is Gods, thanks.

What? Isn't this central to Gita? Jan!!!

What is “central” to the Gita is “abandon all varieties of religion and surrender unto Me” (Lord Krishna).
The point you have made refers to Gods devotees (bhaktas), it is they alone who act for the will of God thereby fulfilling His motive. The karmis, jnanis and yogis act at different levels to fulfil their own motives. If Arjuna did not surrender to Krishna, he also would have acted out of self-interest.

Philosophy...fine. How about reality, Jan?

The philosophy is there to help one know reality, and at each stage of realisation one becomes more aware, if and when one becomes aware, then one is forced to act according to ones knowledge.

Which part of what I said, was fantasy?

Love

Jan Ardena.