I was refuting your implied argument that people are against healthcare reform. Which they aren't. the point was to show that just because things appear to look a certain way the truth can be very different.
Will Scott Brown Kill ObamaCare?
- Thread starter madanthonywayne
- Start date
I was refuting your implied argument that people are against healthcare reform. Which they aren't. the point was to show that just because things appear to look a certain way the truth can be very different.
You have a poor grasp of health care economics. the median income is 54,000 dollars the average(sorry I really want to compare median to median but can't find information of the median healthcare premiemums) prememiums for health care are 13,000. If this is median(which I am not sure of but doubt) it means most people would be paying around a quarter of their pretax income on healthcare premiemums. that's not affordable.
their care isn't free
yeah universal health care so we can keep costs down.
Which is why your two favorate prexs had something like 75% of the debt acrued under them?
No bush did
Bush
Secuirity has started to get better under Obama
dems are better for the military more have served and they held higher rank
no he wants to help people hurt by policies you support
No he doesn't but I wish he did
No it crashed long before the dems took control. Bushg was great for you but for us normal every day working americans(or as you call them losers) he was an unmitigated disaster.
Everyone agrees that our current system could be improved upon, but sadly, most people also agree that the "reform" package currently being debated is not an improvement and will likely increase costs and possibly decrease quality of care at the same time.
In fact, Richard Foster, the chief actuary for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, has issued a report saying that ObamaCare would result in an increase of $222 billion in spending at the very least over the next ten years. This isn't some insurance company hack, this is the chief actuary from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. I have seen estimates that healthcare costs will double under this plan. Do you have any studies showing that costs will decrease? That was a major goal of this "reform", wasn't it?
Really? This package has had zero support from Republicans, how the hell can you blame them for it? Regardless, this package is shit, it sucks and does more harm than good. I sincerely hope it goes down in flames.
http://statehealth.newamerica.net/node/240 this right here is why we need to go to a universal single payer system. these are projections( rather conservative ones I believe) of the percentage of the full cost of the employee system which many right wingers wish to continue with of the median income of the state. in 2016 only one state is projected to have that percentage under 30% hawaii.
because all the pandering to the insurance companies was for them.
BULLSHIT. This bill is 100% the responsiblity of the DEMOCRATS. They wrote it, they voted for it. If it passes, they will own it. Any pandering to insurance companies was DONE ENTIRELY BY THOSE SAME DEMOCRATS.
Because I watched them trash it. I watched them state, arrange, and employ a powerful media and legislative strategy to force the bill into the shape it now has.madanth said:
Two motives, both explicitly stated many times, in public: protect the profits of the larger drug and insurance companies, damage the Democratic Party in hopes of "winning" more power in the fall elections.
Every provision in that bill is written as an attempt to create something the corporate right will allow through - the corporate bought and paid for minions and lickspittles that guard that gate include the entire Republican contingent in the House and Senate.
You aren't that completely, moronically, comically clueless about what just happened here - are you?madanth said:
And yet they got zero Republican votes in the Senate. Therefore, they had no reason to do anything to appease them. An independent (Lieberman) and some more conservative Democrats are all that held them back. Don't try dropping this pile of shit in the lap of the Republicans.
I didn't say all the carriers of corporate water were Republican.madanth said:
Many of the Dems were very happy to have an excuse to trash the bill in the service of their own political support, and the Reps provided one as explicitly arranged.
I just said the Republican opposition - with the constant pressure for "bipartisanship" etc - was a major influence. And you know that it was, right?
The Republicans could have supported a better bill, even a single payer setup. Instead, they devoted their efforts to trashing this bill, and they succeeded. That makes them responsible for their influence on the bill as trashed, and the failure of health care reform in 2009. Without the Reps, none of this would have ever happened.madanth said:
The Republicans may have attempted to exert pressure, but given that none of them supported the bill in the end it's idiotic for the Democrats to respond to it. This is a Democrat bill, an extremely unpopular piece of shit Democrat bill that they will wear around their necks like an albatross in the upcoming election cycle whether it passes or not. Frankly, it would probably be better for them to kill it and start over. But they've convinced themselves that passing something called healthcare reform is of vital importance no matter what that bill is.
Hindsight is 20/20. Meanwhile, the Republican influence on the bill is substantial and critical, and the Republican contribution to the failure of health care reform is huge - greater than the Dem contribution.madanth said:
Of course it is always idiotic to listen to this crowd of Republicans Congressmen about anything ever - but no one said those Dems that did the listening were not idiotic. We on the left have been pointing that out for years now, as they rolled over for one inexcusable travesty of governance after another.
That is the Republican plan, and the priority of the Republican Party throughout the entire debate. The effect on the citizenry of all this, the failure of governance it has become, is not a Republican concern. Also, the Reps can count on the media to cooperate in that description of events.madanth said:
They have had that hung around their neck, as you put it, the the corrupted media - it's not something they've "convinced themselves" of.madanth said:
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This country was doing the best it EVER did. The DOW hit and stayed at record-highs. Employment was FULL. Housing was amazing. The country was in awesome shape. Then the liberals took over CONgress. The DOW tanked. Housing went into the toilet. Employment fell. By the end of '07 we were kind of fcked. Then the morons elected Obama and things are now the worst they've been since the Depression. He spent us into oblivion. He wants socialist policies: welfare for losers, health care paid for other losers by the people who actually pay taxes, and all the other crap that goes with socialism.
W was frantically trying to rebuild our security that Clinton gutted. He knew nothing of 911 until told. The intel was so vague it was a joke. The world does NOT like us better since Obama is POTUS. They will always hate us. We took out the world's worst terrorist--their friend Saddam Hussein. We crippled alQaida in Afghanistan. We brought freedom and democracy to Iraq. Of course they hate us. They were getting oil for food, billions in dirty terrorist money, and living like kings. Then along comes W and puts an end to their filthy party.
W is a hero. Best POTUS ever.:worship: The worst was Carter. He left our guys to rot in Iran. He was a coward, wimp, impotent, pathetic excuse for a human. Still is.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Carter tried to rescue our hostages with special forces.
The stock market crashed before Obama was even sworn in.
The stock market crashed before Obama was even sworn in.
Carter didn't do squat. His idea of solving the problem was to "talk" to the terrorists. Failure.
The DOW puked within a month of liberal takeover of CONgress. In Feb. '07 it fell 416 points. W got it back up but it fell again in Sept. '08 because of Barney Frank's et all's failed policies. There have been lots of ups and downs. DOW does not like democrat policies. It dove the day Obama was inaugurated and has jumped around since.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
No, he actually sent in some of the first special forces specifically trained to fight terrorism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw
Failure. Our hostages rotted in Iran for over a year. Carter is impotent and a dangerous traitor to the USA.
I so greatly dislike concepts of "majority rules". The elite and noble and prosperous and innovative and virtuous will always be in the minority; and the majority, the ignorant and apathetic masses, will always have no problem exploiting that noble few for their own 'free' stuff. It's sad, really.
Amazing how 40 Republicans with no leadership positions can completely dominate the process.
Ironically, Mr Brown winning the election and killing this crap plan might well be the best thing that could happen to the Dems. It would give them the chance to start over and craft a plan that the American people could actually get behind.