Why do ghosts wear human clothes?

[Magical Realist]

Ghosts are peculiarly fashion-conscious, often appearing in the garb of the time they lived in. 19th century phantoms sport victorian dresses and hair buns. Civil war soldiers appear in the uniform they fought in. What is the logic behind this? You're pure energy now. You don't NEED clothes anymore!
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"Paranormal enthusiasts often report sighting spirits dressed in Victorian period clothing, flowing white dresses, or just jeans and t-shirts. Why? If ghosts are, as paranormal investigators would have us believe, essentially human spirit energy stuck in purgatory between earth and the great beyond, why do their manifestations include the manufactured convention of clothing? We consulted paranormal and death experts from around the globe on what ghosts are wearing these days and why.

Putting aside for a moment the (irrelevant) question of whether or not ghosts exist, let’s focus our metaphysical energies on exploring the latest in phantasm fashion.

Up in Vermont, Betty DuPont, director of Paranormal Investigators of New England (PI-NE) says she had her first brush with the paranormal while renting a room in an old Victorian home. After several days of returning from work to strange unexplainable phenomena, she awoke one night to an apparition of a short man in an overcoat standing next to her bed. As to why an overcoat and not say, lederhosen, DuPont has a theory.

"[Ghosts are] projecting themselves in the way that they last perceived themselves. Even if they burnt in a fire or they died in surgery, they still appear wearing clothing because that’s how they best knew themselves," said DuPont. She says ghosts wear neither what they died in nor what they were buried in. They wear the clothes that feel most closely attached to their identity in life. DuPont reflected, "the clothing that is coming out now, is going to be what ghosts are wearing in the future. The designers that are designing now, their designs will live on for eternity."........

http://www.racked.com/2016/3/21/11264216/ghosts-human-clothes-paranormal-fashion

 

[DaveC426913]

Putting aside for a moment the (irrelevant) question of whether or not ghosts exist...

Isn't that kind of muzzling the only correct answer?

Surely, ghosts wear clothes for the same reason unicorns have a horn. Because that's what we imagine them to have.

 

[Magical Realist]

Isn't that kind of muzzling the only correct answer?

Surely, ghosts wear clothes for the same reason unicorns have a horn. Because that's what we imagine them to have.

You do? How often do you imagine ghosts in period clothes standing right in front of you?

 

[DaveC426913]

You do? How often do you imagine ghosts in period clothes standing right in front of you?

I'm doing it right now. (And, I'll bet, so are you.)

 

[Magical Realist]

I'm doing it right now. (And, I'll bet, so are you.)

I'm not imagining anything standing right in front of me. So what clothes is it wearing?

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm not imagining anything standing right in front of me. So what clothes is it wearing?

I dunno. Um. An overcoat and deerstalker hat?

The unicorn has spiral windings on its horn because that's what I expect to see.

 

[Magical Realist]

I dunno. Um. An overcoat and deerstalker hat?

How tall is he? What age? Beard? Hair color? Is he doing anything besides standing there? What's his emotional expression?

 

[DaveC426913]

How tall is he? What age? Beard? Hair color? Is he doing anything besides standing there? What's his emotional expression?

Is there a point to this? I have an active imagination.

And I watch lots of movies. Like others, my impression of imaginary things gets reinforced.

 

[Magical Realist]

Is there a point to this? I have an active imagination.

I'm showing you that you don't imagine such details in an imaginary figure unless you intend to. You would thus always know you were imagining such a detailed figure because you put so much effort into picturing it a certain way. It would never occur to you as being an actual ghost, unlike the cases we have of real paranormal encounters.

 

[DaveC426913]

Like other humans, my brain is wired to find/invent familiar things in phenomena I observe but have trouble explaining. It's what humans do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

The effort people put in to explaining something they can't explain is real, whether they like it or not.

Try looking at that picture in the Wiki article and not see a face.

 

[Magical Realist]

Like other humans, my brain is wired to find/invent familiar things in phenomena I observe but have trouble explaining. It's what humans do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

It took you considerable effort just to imagine a figure standing in front of you with noticeable details. That sort of effort doesn't occur with ghost sightings. They appear effortlessly in great detail, as present as a physical person in front of you. Furthermore, pareidolia only accounts for faces in windows or in smoke and shadows. It doesn't account for seeing a glowing 3D figure that is walking in a room or moving it's body.

 

[DaveC426913]

They appear effortlessly in great detail, as present as a physical person in front of you.

The associations are made during the unconscious processing phase, when their brain attempts to make sense of what they've seen.

We have no way of knowing the the witness actually saw without their brain having already processed it into something they can comprehend.

Furthermore, pareidolia only accounts for faces in windows or in smoke and shadows. It doesn't account for seeing a glowing 3D figure that is walking in a room or moving it's body.

Of course it does. Why would you think otherwise?

I'm not suggesting they didn't see a phenomenon. But the familiarity - the human details - are the artifact of a groping mind. It's what we do.

 

[Magical Realist]

The associations are made during the unconscious processing phase, when their brain attempts to make sense of what they've seen.

We have no way of knowing the the witness actually saw without their brain having already processed it into something they can comprehend.

We have only to ask what they saw and the details of what it looked like to know whether it was something they intentionally imagined or unintentionally saw before them. People don't imagine period dressed bodies walking before them. Maybe faces in reflecting window panes and smoke. But not moving 3D bodies in space.

Of course

it does. Why would you think otherwise?

Pareidolia is making out faces and forms from a visually noisy 2D background. That's not what's happening with full body apparitions. They are 3D people moving thru space. Nobody imagines something like that without knowing it.

I'm not suggesting they didn't see a phenomenon. But the familiarity - the human details - are the artifact of a groping mind. It's what we do.

So when you see a person walking down the street, the fact that you are familiar with that image--the body and it's clothes--means you are groping for this image out of random background noise? That doesn't follow at all. You are familiar with the person's form and garb because that is how they appear, not because you have somehow projected what you want onto them. If otoh you are imagining such a detailed figure out of thin air, which I highly doubt anyone can do, you'd certainly know it because of the effort expended to imagine it. There would be no mistaking it for something outside your head.

 

[DaveC426913]

We have only to ask what they saw and the details of what it looked like to know

Nope. You get a memory, already processed and interpreted and then recalled. And then it is converted - very poorly - into words.

The mind is all smoke and mirrors. It was photoshopping before Photoshop existed.

I can suggest some books. Jay Ingram's Theatre of the Mind is excellent. It is fascinating, illuminating, yet an easy read.

Pareidolia is making out faces and forms from a visually noisy 2D background. That's not what's happening with full body apparitions. They are 3D people moving thru space. Nobody imagines something like that without knowing it.

When they interpret and describe what they saw, they first give it images, then they give it words. The end result is nothing like the initial input. And it all happens entirely unconsciously, and in the blink of an eye (as well as over time).

So when you see a person walking down the street, the fact that you are familiar with that image--the body and it's clothes--means you are groping for this image out of random background noise? That doesn't follow at all.

It sure doesn't. I said nothing of the sort.

You're still assuming that what we think we see is any semblance of reality. Nothing is farther from the truth.

 

[DaveC426913]

Have you seen this video?

 

[DaveC426913]

That doesn't follow at all. You are familiar with the person's form and garb because that is how they appear, not because you have somehow projected what you want onto them. If otoh you are imagining such a detailed figure out of thin air, which I highly doubt anyone can do, you'd certainly know it because of the effort expended to imagine it. There would be no mistaking it for something outside your head.

You are speculating based on your own common sense.

This is a very well studied field. There is no need to surmise how human cognitive perception works.

 

[Daecon]

Why do only humans have ghosts?

 

[Magical Realist]

Nope. You get a memory, already processed and interpreted and then recalled. And then it is converted - very poorly - into words.

The mind is all smoke and mirrors. It was photoshopping before Photoshop existed.

I can suggest some books. Jay Ingram's Theatre of the Mind is excellent. It is fascinating, illuminating, yet an easy read.

Regardless, we do a damn good job at seeing and interpreting what is right in front of us. The instances of us correctly seeing what is there outnumbers by far any errors we make. Think for example how driving your car has depended for so long on your ability to scrutinize and accurately access what is always 100 feet or so ahead of you. If vision was as flawed as you claim, none of us would get past our first day of driver's ed.

When they interpret and describe what they saw, they first give it images, then they give it words. The end result is nothing like the initial input. And it all happens entirely unconsciously, and in the blink of an eye (as well as over time).


It sure doesn't. I said nothing of the sort.

You're still assuming that what we think we see is any semblance of reality. Nothing is farther from the truth.

I see. So we don't see reality as it is at all. What do you see when you see something then? You're own imagination?

 

[Magical Realist]

Have you seen this video?

Has nothing to do with your claim that people can imagine 3D detailed human forms with period clothing walking right in front of them. I've heard Tibetan monks can project visual bodies in space from their own minds. They're called tulpas. But that takes years of training and even then I'm sure their not mistaken for ghosts.

 

[Magical Realist]

You are speculating based on your own common sense.

This is a very well studied field. There is no need to surmise how human cognitive perception works.

No..I'm using logic and my direct experience with my own imagination. Never have I ever imagined a 3D human form walking before me that was so real I could mistake it for a ghost. It doesn't happen unless you're on drugs or have a brain disorder. In the cases of people seeing ghosts this is not the case. These are normal sane people seeing real things and hearing real sounds and feeling real sensations. Many don't even believe in ghosts or ever think about them. That's how real and emotionally jarring a ghost encounter is.