Why did Bin Laden turn to hit america
- Thread starter Sky
- Start date
Can you really blame them? I'd spit on and throw stones at people who have kicked me off my land! lol
Oh, trust me, it's "clear," that only thing you know of Islam and Muslims is what the Western/American media feeds you.
Still waiting for those quotes from said men. Funny how you say it's so prevelant and accepted and condoned in Islamic scripture and by Islamic scholars when you haven't posted one verse from al-Qur'an, one hadiths or one quote from any Islamic scholar and I have done all of the above to back up my assertions and counter-arguments.
An attack against Shi'is. I wonder how I would feel about this.
Another attack on the Shi'a community and upon Shi'a pilgrims.
Again another attack on the Iraqi Shi'a community.
Both the city of Najaf and Karbala are extremely important/holy sites to every Shi'a around the globe, not to mention Imam Sistani is my marja and is also the leading and most senior Shi'i cleric in Iraq of whom is not only followed in Iraq but also by millions of Shi'a around the globe.
An attack on Shi'a pilgrims/community.
An attack on the Shi'a community.
An attack on the Shi'a community.
It is, clearly, as stated explicitly in al-Qur'an and I have posted numerous religious arguments, justifications and evidences for this claim. Posting these incidents doesn't in anyway refute this nor can it in any real way be taken as a valid counter-argument. I mean I have posted hadith and quotes by Islamic scholars which says suicide is a sin, is haram and it's haram to kill non-combatants, namely the elderly, women, children, sick, etc. Infact a lot of your "evidences," are of attacks on the Shi'a community. I am Shi'a and it's very easy to see why every Shi'a around the globe would be against these attacks. It's ridiculous. I mean attacks, killings and persecution of the Shi'a community within the region isn't something new and has happened ever since the begining. The fact remains there is no religious argument for these suicide bombings, none. There is however numerous other explainations, I am sure, as to why this recent phenomena has taken place however again, there is no religious argument for this action, at all. If you disagree then we can very well debate this.
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One would assume so however to some people here this thought is simply impossible.
One of the problems with religion - and I mean all religions - is that its members 'modify' the teachings thereof to suit their own personal prejudices and desires. Christians set up the Inquisition and killed Jews, basically because they could steal from the Jews they were killing. Yet they did that "in the name of Christ'.
Of course Muslims do the same sort of thing. Hence they attack and kill those they have a prejudice against, and call it "in the name of Allah."
I have met many Muslims. The vast majority, like the vast majority of Christians, are lovely people. A survey carried out some years back showed that about 10% of all social groups, all religions, all professions etc, basically have no conscience. This 10% will do absolutely anything to benefit themselves, no matter how much it hurts other, if they think they can get away with it. This also means that 90% of all peoples are good.
That 10% is part of all Muslim groups, and all Christian groups. They are the ones who recruit, train, and despatch suicide bombers. Ironically, the bombers themselves are usually naive young men who actually have little idea of what is going on, and simply follow instructions. The evil ones are the recruiters.
Since I am a non believer in any religion, I can view it more dispassionately than the Muslims and Christians here. Take it from me. All peoples are alike. Mostly good but with a smattering of totally evil a$$holes.
Of course Muslims do the same sort of thing. Hence they attack and kill those they have a prejudice against, and call it "in the name of Allah."
I have met many Muslims. The vast majority, like the vast majority of Christians, are lovely people. A survey carried out some years back showed that about 10% of all social groups, all religions, all professions etc, basically have no conscience. This 10% will do absolutely anything to benefit themselves, no matter how much it hurts other, if they think they can get away with it. This also means that 90% of all peoples are good.
That 10% is part of all Muslim groups, and all Christian groups. They are the ones who recruit, train, and despatch suicide bombers. Ironically, the bombers themselves are usually naive young men who actually have little idea of what is going on, and simply follow instructions. The evil ones are the recruiters.
Since I am a non believer in any religion, I can view it more dispassionately than the Muslims and Christians here. Take it from me. All peoples are alike. Mostly good but with a smattering of totally evil a$$holes.
K
keith1
Guest
Was is not said, as an afterthought of the U.S. military pullout in Vietnam, that "we would not become enmeshed in a situation like that again"? But was it not taken by others as "we will not leave a situation like that again"?
Was not the first intrusion of U.S. forces into the Middle East, as to push back Saddam's army out of Kuwait, not done expeditiously, as fear of "another Vietnam" loomed in the mindset of the U.S., at the time? Was not Bin Laden's hashish-empowered fighter's, fresh from the victorious repulsion of (then Soviet) occupation of Afghanistan, ready to join in with the western allies, against Saddam?
Did their shunning of his request (because they did not need him, or the Saud/Islamic elite was fearful of a new growing "Islamic warrior/prophet" movement, or other reasons) start the "evil West/infidel on our soil" propaganda campaign for the minds of some of the Islamic populace?
Does not an opiated mind (given the subjects are already vulnerable to suggestion, seemly threatened, under other personal crisis) become ripe for such suicide bombing acts? Against all factions not of their ilk, sect, local countryman?
Does not the continued (seemly stubborn, for the discussed reasons stated above) presence of foreign military factions exacerbate this condition?
Was not the first intrusion of U.S. forces into the Middle East, as to push back Saddam's army out of Kuwait, not done expeditiously, as fear of "another Vietnam" loomed in the mindset of the U.S., at the time? Was not Bin Laden's hashish-empowered fighter's, fresh from the victorious repulsion of (then Soviet) occupation of Afghanistan, ready to join in with the western allies, against Saddam?
Did their shunning of his request (because they did not need him, or the Saud/Islamic elite was fearful of a new growing "Islamic warrior/prophet" movement, or other reasons) start the "evil West/infidel on our soil" propaganda campaign for the minds of some of the Islamic populace?
Does not an opiated mind (given the subjects are already vulnerable to suggestion, seemly threatened, under other personal crisis) become ripe for such suicide bombing acts? Against all factions not of their ilk, sect, local countryman?
Does not the continued (seemly stubborn, for the discussed reasons stated above) presence of foreign military factions exacerbate this condition?
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Try and tell that to them, and they will disagree with you, and at time in a very disagreeable manner.
Now what is proper Islam, we have Imam's, Sheikh's, who have given their blessings to the use of suicide bombings.
All though they use other terms to make it acceptable;
feda’i...istishhadi....shahada.....shahid......shuhada......
Some reading for you.
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/proteus/docs/Acosta-the-palestinian-shahid.pdf
Today, posters glorifying the latest shahid litter the walls of Palestinian cities, villages and “refugee camps” in the disputed territories23 of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. Everyone from corner shop owners and cab drivers to the 20-something year olds drinking coffee at the local café extol past Palestinian terror leaders such as Chairman Yasser Arafat, Dr. Fathi Shaqaqi, Sheik Ahmad Yassin and Dr. Abdul Aziz al-Rantissi, along with the heinous terrorist acts they spent their days sponsoring. In Bethlehem, children argue in the street over whose turn it is to play the shahid in their casual game of a mock suicide-bomb attack. These sentiments expressed on the Arab streets of the disputed territories represent a popular culture of martyrdom, which has gained and continues to strengthen a stranglehold on Palestinian society.
martyrdom
First used in explaining Palestinian society’s support for suicide-homicide bombers sometime after the initiation of the second intifada, a number of researchers, scholars and political analysts have since elaborated on the concept “culture of martyrdom” and its variations. See David Brooks, “The Culture of Martyrdom: How Suicide Bombing Became not just a Means but an End,” The Atlantic Monthly 289, no. 6 (June 2002): 18-20; Mohammed M. Hafez, Manufacturing Human Bombs: The Making of Palestinian Suicide Bombers (Washington D.C.: United States Institute for Peace Press, 2006); Anne Marie Oliver and Paul Steinberg, The Road to Martyrs’ Square: A Journey into the World of the Suicide Bomber (New York: Oxford University Press, 2005); Barbara Victor, Army of Roses: Inside the World of Palestinian Women Suicide Bombers (Emmaus, Penn.: Rodale, 2003); Nat Hentoff, “The Poisonous Cult of Martyrdom; Pal
Tatwa (Islamic decree) issued by Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradawi, a leading Sunni cleric, supporting the use of suicide-homicide attacks on civilians, worked not only to buttress Palestinian employment of suicide-homicide bombers against Israeli civilians,
Al-Qaradawi is the Head of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, as well as the President of the International Association of Muslim Scholars.
Referring to the importance of al-Qaradawi’s role in legitimizing suicide terrorism, Hamas’s current leader Khaled Mash’al states: “[Qaradawi’s] unequivocal fatwa, the sheikh, may Allah reward him, considered martyrdom operations to be the most noble level of jihad. That was unparalleled support for the people of Palestine, because, brothers and sisters, you cannot imagine how difficult it is psychologically for a young Palestinian man or woman to sacrifice themselves or what is most dear to them, only to encounter a conflict in their minds and hearts as to whether they are on the path of righteousness, or whether they are committing a religious violation.”
All of which just goes to show that the recruiters are evil a$$holes, and the suicide bombers are naive young men, easily led.
The history of Christianity is also full of incidences where religious leaders led young people into acts that are utterly non Christian. The crusades themselves were led by popes, and were completely against everything that Christ taught.
So Mulsims do the same thing as Christians....
The history of Christianity is also full of incidences where religious leaders led young people into acts that are utterly non Christian. The crusades themselves were led by popes, and were completely against everything that Christ taught.
So Mulsims do the same thing as Christians....
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Sorry, but the Crusades were 700 years ago, and the only suicide killers, were again Muslim, Da'wa al-Jadīda الدعوة الجديدة, but at least they did target only the Leadership, Military and Political.
And no the Crusades of the middle east were in response to a call from the Christian Byzantine Empire, a reaction to Islam, invading their lands, the Holy Lands, occupying them and capturing Jerusalem in 1076, the most holy of holy places for Christians.
A clear response to the expansion of Islam.
The other so called Crusades, unfortunately called such by the Catholic Church, were as a response to the Orthodox and Protestant movements, which rose in challenge to the Roman Catholicism, and the corruption of the Fundamental Teachings of Christ.
Again, there is a major doctrinal difference between Christianity and Islam.
The Protestants forced the Roman Church to abandon the use of force in conversion, and return to the fundamental teachings of Jesus, that Salvation is offered freely, to be accepted freely, or rejected freely, with no sanction, in social status, or forfeiture of life, as a Protestant, I do not want a Bad Christian, (forced) over a Good Muslim (dead), now as my research into Islam has revealed, Yes, until you are offered conversion to Islam, yes you are under no compunction to become a Muslim, but once that offer is rejected, and you have refused the path to Allah, then you come under sanctions for refusing to convert, starting with death, or if a People of the Book, Dhimmitude, and the payment of Jizya, becoming second class citizens in your own lands.
Under Sharia' non-Muslims are not regarded as citizens by any Islamic state, even if they originally populated the land. To deny this, to conceal the truth.
Justice and equality require that any Christian Pakistani, Melanesian, Turk, or Arab be treated the same under law as any other citizen of his own country.
They have the right to enjoy the same privileges of citizenship regardless of belief.
To make the claim that Islam is the only true religion and to accuse other religions of infidelity, and then place legal sanctions against there followers. is a legal, social, and religious offense.
Yes,Christians believe that their religion is the true religion of God and Islam is not.
But does that mean. say for example, in Britain, which is headed by a Queen, the head of the Anglican Church, Muslim subjects should be treated as a second class?
All so in the west Muslims enjoy all freedoms allotted to all citizens of these countries, but in the lands of Islam, Muslim countries, they do not allow native Christians, Buddhist, Hindu, other religions, the same freedom?
In the West Muslims build mosques, schools, and have the right to enter the political arena, also they have access to the media without any restriction.
They can publicly advertise their activities, are allowed to distribute their Islamic tracts freely, yet in any Islamic country, natives who are not Muslim are not allowed to do so under sanction of law.
Why are citizens of the West allowed to embrace any religion they wish without persecution while a person who chooses to convert to another religion in any Islamic country, is considered an apostate and faces death by Sharia" Law, and must be killed if he persists in his apostasy?
Yes, this the 21st Century, it is not the Crusades, and Christians are not doing the same thing as Muslims.
im not too worried buffalo roam. personally id prefer islam over christianity if I did believe in god (which i semi-do, semi-dont, semi-cant be stuffed)
you should definitely see the pictures of young jewish kids in israel---not playing and pretending---but actually using guns and learning how to use them.
http://muslimmatters.org/2009/02/07...stine-train-children-in-use-of-firearms-guns/
http://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com/2008/11/jewish-kids-raised-to-kill.html
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=13453
yes palestine kids play and mock and pretend...israeli kids do...
afterall, they have to get ready to become the murderers their elders were. Just disgusting.
you should definitely see the pictures of young jewish kids in israel---not playing and pretending---but actually using guns and learning how to use them.
http://muslimmatters.org/2009/02/07...stine-train-children-in-use-of-firearms-guns/
http://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot.com/2008/11/jewish-kids-raised-to-kill.html
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=13453
yes palestine kids play and mock and pretend...israeli kids do...
afterall, they have to get ready to become the murderers their elders were. Just disgusting.
islam is an expansive religion so they will not stop till everyone is converted or killed which is like their form of the old testament, today most arent this bad in their beliefs.
im suprised nobody here brought up the inside job government stuff. the main stream media was caught lying on several occasions and there is too many coincidences and inconsistencies with the official report. i would suggest you youtube "jesse ventura" cause he was the governor of minnesota and watch him talk on larry king or any vid with him in it. shadow gov, federal reserve, drug smuggling, false flag terrorism, alot of scary stuff when you look into this.
im suprised nobody here brought up the inside job government stuff. the main stream media was caught lying on several occasions and there is too many coincidences and inconsistencies with the official report. i would suggest you youtube "jesse ventura" cause he was the governor of minnesota and watch him talk on larry king or any vid with him in it. shadow gov, federal reserve, drug smuggling, false flag terrorism, alot of scary stuff when you look into this.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Bert, maybe you need to broaden your horizon's and research....
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/301772/military_training_at_a_summer_camp/
Those aren't toy guns that are in the hands of these Palestinian Children.
Are you ready to make this statement of your applicable to the Palestinian's as well?
Or are you just another anti Semite, Jew hating bigot.
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You do not need to be anti-semitic to be concerned about what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians.
Certainly Palestinians get hold of any guns they can. They even photograph their children holding those guns. So what?
I can tell you with total emphasis, that if any other people treated me and my country the way Israelis treated Palestinians and Palestine, I would get my hands on the biggest, most potent weapon I could find, and I would be stalking the city looking for enemies to kill!
The situation in Palestine is not nice. The Palestinians are not nice in the way they respond to it. But their response is totally understandable. America, Britain, and Israel stole the Palestinians country off them, and gave nothing back. Today they claim virtue because they allow the survivors to live in the worst zones, while depriving them of the necessities of life.
Israelis still kill Palestinians at the rate of more than a dozen for every Israeli who dies. Hamas is not nice, either. They are not smart, since they are relying on a one sided war to achieve their goal of a sovereign, independent Palestine. They should be lobbying every international forum they can.
Sadly, as long as the USA supports Israel, the Palestinians have little chance of obtaining what they desperately need, and most definitely deserve - their own homeland.
And, Buffalo, if you think that Palestinians doing what they can to fight back against an evil aggressor is wrong, then you have a warped view of reality.
Certainly Palestinians get hold of any guns they can. They even photograph their children holding those guns. So what?
I can tell you with total emphasis, that if any other people treated me and my country the way Israelis treated Palestinians and Palestine, I would get my hands on the biggest, most potent weapon I could find, and I would be stalking the city looking for enemies to kill!
The situation in Palestine is not nice. The Palestinians are not nice in the way they respond to it. But their response is totally understandable. America, Britain, and Israel stole the Palestinians country off them, and gave nothing back. Today they claim virtue because they allow the survivors to live in the worst zones, while depriving them of the necessities of life.
Israelis still kill Palestinians at the rate of more than a dozen for every Israeli who dies. Hamas is not nice, either. They are not smart, since they are relying on a one sided war to achieve their goal of a sovereign, independent Palestine. They should be lobbying every international forum they can.
Sadly, as long as the USA supports Israel, the Palestinians have little chance of obtaining what they desperately need, and most definitely deserve - their own homeland.
And, Buffalo, if you think that Palestinians doing what they can to fight back against an evil aggressor is wrong, then you have a warped view of reality.
couldn't have said it better myself!
Bert, maybe you need to broaden your horizon's and research....
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/301772/military_training_at_a_summer_camp/
Those aren't toy guns that are in the hands of these Palestinian Children.
Are you ready to make this statement of your applicable to the Palestinian's as well?
Or are you just another anti Semite, Jew hating bigot.
did you even see my photos btw? you were saying that these muslim and christian palestinian kids carried guns and i showed you the israeli kids carrying guns and learning how to use them.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
No Bert, the pictures are of Palestinian Children carrying weapons, real weapons, and the video is of them learning to use them.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/301772/military_training_at_a_summer_camp/
Now as for your pictures.....
http://muslimmatters.org/2009/02/07/...firearms-guns/
If you would care to notice, those weapons are secured to the table by a cable.
http://uprootedpalestinians.blogspot...d-to-kill.html
Ah yes, really dangerous toy cap guns and a pink noise makers.
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=13453
So they are sending their best wishes, seem that I have seen Palestinian Children doing the exact same thing.
I see no military training going on, not like the video of summer camp for future suicide bombers.
The United States(along with the UK and France) created the envoirment for this to happen. we meddled in the affairs of, used, and abused these people. We are merely reaping what we have sowed.
exactly take any animal abused the fuck out of it and than corner it and see what happens. exactly what the palestinians are doing lashing out.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Yes, I love the way you couch your anti Semitic, rhetoric.
"fight back against an evil aggressor"
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
No, pj, If it wasn't for the U.S. the Faux Palestinians and Arabs would have had the asses handed to them in several of the wars, we are the ones who have pulled the Israelis off of the Palestinian and Arabs more than once, same for the French.
It is the Arabs/Faux Palestinians who are reaping what they have sown, remember it was they who rejected U.N. 181 after they were given 95% of the lands of the Palestinian Mandate, and the Camp David Accords after they were given 95% of of the conditions they insisted on.