We never went to the moon.

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Thank God. "Proof" is on YouTube! Does that mean that the earth is flat and we were coeval with dinosaurs too? UFOs are really ETs? I've seen shit like that on YouTube too...

But I digress. Since you say the case is closed, you can finally rest and STFU, hm?
 
FatFreddy said:
Ok. Here's the proof.
Case closed.
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Let's choose our words carefully.

"Proof" is not something that's going to occur here, unless you can literally show me a studio with miniature spacecraft.

FatFreddy said:
I've seen a mountain of proof that the footage was faked in a studio* and I've seen zero proof that it was real. Post something you consider to be proof that they really went and we can talk about whether it's really proof.
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Something I've always thought odd.

The Hoaxers' entire premise is based on falsifying existing evidence of Moon shots. i.e. here is an image that has been released of some part of the mission - but we claim it is not real. (I'll grant for the sake of argument that Hoaxers have a thick folder of falsified photos/videos etc.)

Thing is, it's pretty weak argumentation to say 'these photos/videos look faked, therefore they are, therefore the whole thing never happened.' All you're done is refute the photos; you haven't made a case for a faked Moon shot.


What I've never seen, in almost 50 years, is any evidence in favour of the fakery itself. I've never seen photos of an abandoned studio, with camera equipment and models, or documents of shipments to desert locations, or confessions of construction crew, or astronauts stepping forward to say it never happened, or any extant evidence of the fakery.

Regardless of how much Hoaxers tear down the existing evidence, they have not, AFAIK, produced any evidence to back the Hoax case.

So, my question to you is this: setting aside all sorts of contested evidence that this or that photo or video (granted, hundreds) do not appear to be real, is there - has there ever been - any positive evidence of the hoax itself?
 
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FatFreddy said:
I've seen a mountain of proof that the footage was faked in a studio* and I've seen zero proof that it was real.
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I was recently present at a very cool demonstration run by UCSD - they bounced a laser off a reflector left by Apollo 14. Got an accurate measurement of the distance to the moon that way. I saw the return pulse on the scope, which is hard proof that the reflector was actually there.

Sorry Fat Freddy; reality wins again.
 
billvon said:
I was recently present at a very cool demonstration run by UCSD - they bounced a laser off a reflector left by Apollo 14. Got an accurate measurement of the distance to the moon that way. I saw the return pulse on the scope, which is hard proof that the reflector was actually there.
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Aww! You beat me to it! That's the very thing I was getting around to asking.

(This is why I was asking for levels of hoax. Some used to claim 'no craft ever went to the Moon' - even unmanned. Which is patently false. But many moderates have backed off to 'no manned flight ever went to the Moon'. This is also patently false, but it's slightly harder to convince someone that the reflectors required human deployment, rather than automated deployment. Younger folk aren't familiar with just how seat-of-the-pants technology was back then. No electronics means no robotics, means no automated deployment of equipment in Moon. If it's there, it was placed there by a human.)
 
Nah, here it is: The ping time was faked, the retroreflector is a lie. There was no laser either, since they can't possibly be real. We'd have found them alongside fossilized remains of the cavemen who lived with the dinosaurs.

deadhorse.gif
The cake is a lie.
 
Anything to stir the pot since they can't come up with the truth they just enjoy playing with us.
 
They may think they're playing, but to me the question is whether they are incapable of critical thought or unwilling to employ critical thought.

I strongly suspect it's abject stupidity, and that's incurable. Even though it seems to have been elevated to a desirable trait.

Screw this thread and the fools that want to remain fools.
 
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billvon said:
I was recently present at a very cool demonstration run by UCSD - they bounced a laser off a reflector left by Apollo 14. Got an accurate measurement of the distance to the moon that way. I saw the return pulse on the scope, which is hard proof that the reflector was actually there.
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The beauty of this is that anyone can do the experiment. You don't need to put your trust in some 3rd-party (if you're super-paranoid). A laser and scope are all you need.
 
DaveC426913 said:
No electronics means no robotics, means no automated deployment of equipment in Moon. If it's there, it was placed there by a human.)
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Well, not quite.
The Mariner program was a program conducted by the American space agency NASA in conjunction with Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL)[1] that launched a series of robotic interplanetary probes designed to investigate Mars, Venus and Mercury[2] from 1962 to 1973
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Wiki Mariner Program

It doesn't help to give wrong answers.

I can't help but note the irony. What do UFO deniers and moon landing deniers have in common? They insist any evidence presented is a hoax! We have tons of military reports that documents UFO encounters. But it don't matter. It's all a lie - even when fighter jets have a dogfight with a UFO.

How funny! I had never thought about it before. Two sides of the same coin.
 
There's no real evidence that UFOs are of extraterrestrial origin. That's just unfounded wishful thinking from the gullible wannabelievers.
 
I was recently present at a very cool demonstration run by UCSD - they bounced a laser off a reflector left by Apollo 14. Got an accurate measurement of the distance to the moon that way. I saw the return pulse on the scope, which is hard proof that the reflector was actually there.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_program

If the Surveyor program was real, they had the technology to land remote-controlled craft on the moon back then. A craft with a rotating upper section could have been landed. There could have been adjustable reflectors attached to the upper section.

What Happened on the Moon
(3-26-19 time mark)

Reflectors on the moon are not proof that there were people on the moon.


What I've never seen, in almost 50 years, is any evidence in favour of the fakery itself. I've never seen photos of an abandoned studio, with camera equipment and models, or documents of shipments to desert locations, or confessions of construction crew, or astronauts stepping forward to say it never happened, or any extant evidence of the fakery.
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The filming of the fake moon footage would have taken place in a location that was off-limits to anyone who wanted to expose it. It probably would have been destroyed shortly after the filming was finished.

Somewhere around the 11:00 time mark of this video there's a supposed satellite photo of area 51 which shows craters where they might have taken some of the footage.

DID WE LAND ON THE MOON?


This isn't proof in and of itself though. The real proof is the anomalies in the footage and photos.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487
 
Daecon said:
There's no real evidence that UFOs are of extraterrestrial origin. That's just unfounded wishful thinking from the gullible wannabelievers.
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My thinking too. UFO just means unidenfied flying object. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of unidentified flying objects, so in my opinion, UFOs clearly exist.

I have strong doubts though if they are from other planets, time travellers or such. The actual problem is that "UFO" lost the original meaning of unidentified flying object as in "it was flying and we have no idea what it is" but is understood to be "extraterrestrial" or "time travelers", which is not what the word was originally meaning.
 
FatFreddy said:
If the Surveyor program was real, they had the technology to land remote-controlled craft on the moon back then. A craft with a rotating upper section could have been landed. There could have been adjustable reflectors attached to the upper section.
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Except you can see the descent module still sitting there on the moon via space-based telescopes. And they are not in the same location as the retroreflectors.

So maybe NASA flew a lunar lander module to the moon, then had robots exit the lander, place the retroreflectors, get back in and take off again! Yeah, that's more likely than what really happened.
 
FatFreddy said:
The filming of the fake moon footage would have taken place in a location that was off-limits to anyone who wanted to expose it. It probably would have been destroyed shortly after the filming was finished.
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So the answer is no: no evidence in support of a hoax.
 
Ok. Here's the proof.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487


Case closed.
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Crap.

http://debunking-a-moron.blogspot.co.uk/

Owned. So much of your post at that forum is dead links, and you have yet to acknowledge that one single thing within it has been debunked. That is really pathetic. You are as much a truther as my goldfish.
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Anyone who takes the time to look at the actual issues will see that that's just an attempt by a sophist to obfuscate the hoax proof. There are some things that are so clear that sophistry simply becomes ineffecive.

Here's proof that he's a sophist who doesn't even believe his own arguments. He tried to obfuscate the clear proof that the Chinese spacewalk was faked.
http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=362999&page=2&p=1064028979#post1064028979

Except you can see the descent module still sitting there on the moon via space-based telescopes. And they are not in the same location as the retroreflectors.
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Pictures are fakable and they don't make the mountain of hoax proof go away.

So the answer is no: no evidence in support of a hoax.
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The answer is that your argument would get you laughed out of the debating hall. The non-exixence of something that any sane person would have gotten rid of immediately after use is far from proof. This is so basic that it's hardly worth discussing.
 
Presumably, if the conspiracists faked all the Apollo missions that landed on the moon, then Apollo 13 must also have been a fake too.

Freddy: I am wondering how all the transmissions sent back from the moon to tracking stations on Earth during the Apollo missions were faked. Were all the tracking stations in on the conspiracy too?

Why didn't the Soviet Union expose the conspiracy?
 
I am wondering how all the transmissions sent back from the moon to tracking stations on Earth during the Apollo missions were faked. Were all the tracking stations in on the conspiracy too?
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The anomalies have already proven the hoax...
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487

...so the tracking stations had to be in on the scam.


I haven't had time to watch this but here it is anyway.

MoonFaker: Australia & The Conspirators. PART 1

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=MoonFaker:+Russia,+Jodrell+Bank+&+Frequencies.+PART+1


Why didn't the Soviet Union expose the conspiracy?
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You're assuming that what we were being told reflected what was really happening. What was happening behind the scenes may have been very different.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=moonfaker+cold+war&aq=f


http://www.nardwuar.com/vs/bill_kaysing/index.html
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Well, why did they keep faking the Apollo flights, I still don't understand. Did the Soviet Union know it was faked? Why did they keep shut up if they knew it was faked? 'Cause a lot of people would think they kept the moon race going to prove the U.S. was better than the Soviet Union. If the Soviet Union knew, why did they let the U.S. get away with this?
Well, I'll tell you - at the highest levels there is a coalition between governments. In other words, the Soviets said, if you won't tell on us - and they faked most of their space exploration flights - we won't tell on you. It's as simple as that. See, what Apollo is, is the beginning of the end of the ability of the government to hoodwink and bamboozle and manipulate the people. More and more people are becoming aware in the U.S. that the government is totally and completely public enemy number one.
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http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm
(excerpt)
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The Soviets, with their own competing moon program and an intense economic and political and military rivalry with the USA, could be expected to have cried foul if the USA tried to fake a Moon landing. Theorist Ralph Rene responds that shortly after the alleged Moon landings, the USA silently started shipping hundreds of thousands of tons of grain as humanitarian aid to the allegedly starving USSR. He views this as evidence of a cover-up, the grain being the price of silence. (The Soviet Union in fact had its own Moon program).
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Here's Chomsky's analysis of the cold war.
http://libcom.org/history/articles/cold-war-1940-1989?quicktabs_1=0
(excerpt)
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On the domestic front, the Cold War helped the Soviet Union entrench its military-bureaucratic ruling class in power, and it gave the US a way to compel its population to subsidise high-tech industry. It isn't easy to sell all that to the domestic populations. The technique used was the old stand-by-fear of a great enemy.
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How does Apollo 13 fit into your world view, Fat Freddy?
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It was faked too.
 
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