UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

[wegs]

Somewhere in the rest of the universe? I'd personally give that possibility a high likelihood. (I have no way of knowing obviously, so it's just a speculation.)

I'm reasonably confident that intelligent beings exist elsewhere in the universe right now, and if we are talking about the ~15 billion years the universe has been in existence (according to contemporary cosmology), the possibility that other civilizations have risen and fallen just increases.

A speculative add-on to the idea of alien civilizations that have since died out is the sci-fi speculation that at least one of these civilizations released a fleet of self-reproducing exploration (and maybe resource recovery) robots before their creators ceased to exist.

The speed-of-light velocity limit wouldn't hinder robots as it would beings with finite lifespans. The robots could survive until they wear out and long duration interstellar voyages wouldn't bore them. And as the robots spread into an ever-greater volume of space, they could make more of themselves. It's even possible to imagine them undergoing a sort of natural selection as their never-ending journey proceeds.

I believe that some versions of the so-called "Fermi paradox" are based upon that kind of speculation.

Robots and natural selection. Hmm. So, an evolution all their own? I hope that if an alien civilization exists on another planet, it doesn’t resemble anything like Star Wars. Lol!

 

[Magical Realist]

Robots and natural selection. Hmm. So, an evolution all their own? I hope that if an alien civilization exists on another planet, it doesn’t resemble anything like Star Wars. Lol!

 

[Seattle]

Robots and natural selection. Hmm. So, an evolution all their own? I hope that if an alien civilization exists on another planet, it doesn’t resemble anything like Star Wars. Lol!

I hope that if an alien civilization exists on another planet they don't spend all their time hiding out over the Atlantic but as the Navy pilot said, it's either us, them or aliens.

Just like you are either a U.S. citizen, a "foreigner" or a butterfly. There are no other choices right and if being a pilot make one an authority, I'm one of those as well.

I just wonder when the butterflies are going to either attack us, go away or start to intermingle...or has that started already...

 

[Yazata]

Robots and natural selection. Hmm. So, an evolution all their own?

Sure. If they reproduce and spread through the galaxy and beyond, and if various design elements passed down to new generations of robots affect their abilities to do this more or less effectively, then the ones with the best design elements that give them the best characteristics and abilities will have a selective advantage and tend to increase compared to the less effective models.

In other words, it seems that the same kind of evolutionary principles that apply to biological life here on Earth would apply to them too.

 

[wegs]

I hope that if an alien civilization exists on another planet they don't spend all their time hiding out over the Atlantic but as the Navy pilot said, it's either us, them or aliens.

Just like you are either a U.S. citizen, a "foreigner" or a butterfly. There are no other choices right and if being a pilot make one an authority, I'm one of those as well.

I just wonder when the butterflies are going to either attack us, go away or start to intermingle...or has that started already...

I think you should submit your ''theories'' to Mick West.

 

[Yazata]

Very true, and I’m not in the camp that believes that extraterrestrial/space alien life is the only alternative to mundane explanations.

Part of the difficulty in this thread is that the word 'mundane' seems to be used different ways. My preferred definition is

"Very ordinary and therefore not interesting" or "Being part of ordinary life and not special".

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/mundane

That's what I mean when I use the word.

The UAPs seem to me to be extra-mundane because they are extraordinary in the literal sense of extra-ordinary. They are events that seemed extraordinary to trained and experienced radar operators and jet pilots. They were events that fell well outside the range of their typical experience.

I take that very seriously since they are the experts in the military aviation field. (As opposed to armchair critics with no military aviation experience that I'm aware of.) In combat, lives will depend on their ability to distinguish enemy aircraft from birds and I don't expect that making that distinction is a big problem for them.

But there seems to be another usage of the word 'mundane' such that it means

"Belonging to this world, not heavenly"

and I get the impression that some of those who fight so violently against any suggestion that these events are extra-mundanc take it to be a claim that they are heavenly or extraterrestrial.

The tic tac “flying object” could have an atypical, mundane reason that we simply don’t know based on our experiences, equipment, and measures of testing. That’s entirely possible, which is why “unexplained” seems to be the best answer.

I agree.

 

[Michael 345]

but as the Navy pilot said, it's either us, them or aliens.

Nooooooo Us possible certainly Them (I take to be Russians / Chinese etc) possible certainly, Aliens??? WHY? Have you eliminated every mundane explanation, glitch, misinterpreted data (both from instruments and your own brain)?

Personally I would put an Arabian flying carpet before Aliens

In other words, it seems that the same kind of evolutionary principles that apply to biological life here on Earth would apply to them too.

Agree. Happens all the time now. Everyone (well most everyone) want s the best whatever and the company which produces the best whatever grows

Not a perfect pathway and sometimes other factors play a role in imperfections being passed on

Comes with the territory of haphazarness

 

[wegs]

To me, the object in this video looks distinctly like a weather balloon, so I'm surprised that there are so many claims of weather balloons being mistaken for UAP's.

 

[Yazata]

as the Navy pilot said, it's either us, them or aliens.

The pilot seems to be assuming the truth of an unstated premise that the UAPs are technological artifacts. Americans + foreigners would seem to me to be an exhaustive classification of humans on Earth.

So if the UAPs are technological artifacts and they aren't the work of either Americans or foreigners, then they wouldn't seem to be the work of humans on Earth.

Makes sense, although the unstated premise is certainly debatable.

 

[Michael 345]

they wouldn't seem to be the work of humans on Earth

I would still put humans on Earth ie the evil billionaire genius with their island volcano hideaway producing technological marvels with which they intend to take over the world, I would put such a person several thousand places ahead of Aliens

 

[Michael 345]

To me, the object in this video looks distinctly like a weather balloon, so I'm surprised that there are so many claims of weather balloons being mistaken for UAP's.

Surely it would be possible for all weather balloons to be fitted with a broadcasting unit sending out

"I am a weather balloon" message which would include its country of origin and launch date

In multiple languages. No more confusion from those pesky items

 

[Seattle]

I would still put humans on Earth ie the evil billionaire genius with their island volcano hideaway producing technological marvels with which they intend to take over the world, I would put such a person several thousand places ahead of Aliens

No, it's got to be aliens. You don't watch much TV do you? They used to prevent themselves and say "Take me to your leader" but they don't do that anymore. The zig and then they zag and then disappear and reappear in an unexplainable manner...therefore...aliens.

 

[Michael 345]

The zig and then they zag and then disappear and reappear in an unexplainable manner...therefore...aliens

Na evil genius. Has a dummy company in a compliant country produces his prefabricated hideout

Of course the evil genius might be behind the currently fake UFOs and when countries begin to ignore them POW ZAP 6G WiFi will be unleashed to keep the mindless Minions looking down until his mind control app has total control of their feeble brains

 

[Sarkus]

Part of the difficulty in this thread is that the word 'mundane' seems to be used different ways. My preferred definition is

"Very ordinary and therefore not interesting" or "Being part of ordinary life and not special".

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/mundane

That's what I mean when I use the word.

Then I can understand there might be some confusion when others use it differently. However...

The UAPs seem to me to be extra-mundane because they are extraordinary in the literal sense of extra-ordinary. They are events that seemed extraordinary to trained and experienced radar operators and jet pilots. They were events that fell well outside the range of their typical experience.

When talking about "mundane" they are usually talking about the general cause, not the phenomenon itself. So a remarkable weather formation would be mundane, as the cause is the weather (a mundane matter) even if the phenomenon itself might be extraordinary.
As such, using "mundane" in these contexts would fit with your understanding. What was the underlying cause of the UAP: birds? So "mundane", even if it was a rare formation that led to the interpretation of technological craft. Technical glitch? Also "mundane" even if the glitch was a one in a billion (glitches are common even if specific ones are rare).
This would also stand for the confluence of individually mundane matters into one extraordinary situation. To me, and others, this would be "mundane", as the underlying causes are common.

I take that very seriously since they are the experts in the military aviation field. (As opposed to armchair critics with no military aviation experience that I'm aware of.) In combat, lives will depend on their ability to distinguish enemy aircraft from birds and I don't expect that making that distinction is a big problem for them.

Yet surprisingly they do make those mistakes, as evidenced by the number of UAP sightings that have quite clearly been birds.

But there seems to be another usage of the word 'mundane' such that it means

"Belonging to this world, not heavenly"

and I get the impression that some of those who fight so violently against any suggestion that these events are extra-mundanc take it to be a claim that they are heavenly or extraterrestrial.

While I disagree with the implication that there are some here who fight "so violently" against such, I am one who would tend to take this view of the word rather than the former that you offered. The takeaway, though, is that one should probably be clearer (on both sides) what they mean by "mundane" when they use it. To avoid confusion.

That said, non-ET causes that I wouldn't consider to be "mundane" would include secret military tech that is a step-change from what Joe Public would recognise. I'm not aware of any UAP cases that have been proven to be such, though.
So far, all UAPs that have been identified have been mundane in origin, and the only extraordinary thing about them in some cases is how people, many of whom should know better, interpreted the observation so wide of the mark.

 

[Michael 345]

The UAPs seem to me to be extra-mundane because they are extraordinary in the literal sense of extra-ordinary

The UAPs seem to me to be extra-mundane because they HAVE BEEN DESCRIBED AS BEING EXTRAORDINARY IN THEIR BEHAVIOUR BUT NEVER PROVEN TO BE SO are extraordinary in the literal sense of extra-ordinary

So for me mundane UNTIL PROVEN otherwise

All CAPITALS and BOLD mine

 

[DaveC426913]

Part of the difficulty in this thread is that the word 'mundane' seems to be used different ways. My preferred definition is

"Very ordinary and therefore not interesting" or "Being part of ordinary life and not special".

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/mundane

That's what I mean when I use the word.

The UAPs seem to me to be extra-mundane because they are extraordinary in the literal sense of extra-ordinary. They are events that seemed extraordinary to trained and experienced radar operators and jet pilots. They were events that fell well outside the range of their typical experience.

Yes, two different things: event and explanation.

The event may be extraordinary, in that it defies immediate comprehension.

The cause - or explanation - is that of something mundane: a weather balloon, a bird.

That is always the way I've intended the use of 'mundane'. And I assume everyone else too.

 

[Magical Realist]

I take mundane to mean of this world. That's why I introduced the term "otherworldly" for uaps, as the antithesis of mundane. New human technology would for me fall under mundane. I suppose this interpretation would fall under the causation of the phenomena, as being either ordinary or extraordinary, ordinary meaning falling into the naturalistic physicalist order of this world. Extraordinary would fall under "preternatural"---

"The preternatural (or praeternatural) is that which appears outside or beside (Latin: præter) the natural. It is "suspended between the mundane and the miraculous".--- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preternatural

 

[wegs]

I’m using mundane to mean “of this earthly world.” So, even if the explanation for these UAP sightings is currently unknowable, that doesn’t mean there couldn’t be a mundane explanation in the future. (air crafts from another country, etc)

It also means “boring or lacking excitement.” I’d say that’s a good descriptor for “weather balloons.” lol

 

[Magical Realist]

You still seem to be insisting that all UAPs must have the same, single explanation. Why?

Isn't that the whole point of explaining, to reach one single explanation? If we end up with multiple explanations, then we haven't really explained anything, right?

 

[DaveC426913]

Isn't that the whole point of explaining, to reach one single explanation? If we end up with multiple explanations, then we haven't really explained anything, right?

Sure. Let's see how that plays out.

99.99% of all reports historically have been explained - a weather balloon, Venus, an unidentified plane, a hoax, etc. We have all acknowledged this at some point.

So, if we're trying to find "one single explanation" for all 100% of them, then, by leaps and bounds, the best single explanation is the mundane one: that the remaining 0.01% are also weather balloons, Venus, an unidentified plane, a hoax, etc.

Are you sure that's what you want? Or would you agree that "one single explanation" is not really the best plan?


Even better:

Many of the ones you brought here (for example the green blinking triangles) turned out to have the very mundane explanation of a regular plane, seen under unusual circumstances.
Would you have preferred a single explanation for all events then? Or are you relived that that event was examined on it own merits, and not applied to all other events?

Because if the explanation of one event can affect other events, that means the likelihood rises that all other events are merely regular planes, seen under unusual circumstances. And I think you'd agree that's not the ideal plan.