Torture

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duendy

Registered Senior Member
On our TV last night--BBC2--was a documumentary titled 'We Have Ways of Making You Talk'.....It talked to torturers, people that had been tortured, and experiments that had been set up to test people regarding how they may sucumb to authority--being told to torture, and wearing uniforms and being afected by their sense of power over others. It was all really insightful!

The two main insights i got was when various talking said that they had given up RESPONSIBILITy for their OWN actions to a higher AUTHORITY. Thus they didn't have to THINK FOR THEMSELVES.

This all seriously opens up the can of worms regarding ourselves. And demands us question whethr we are obeying any authority blindly, without thinking for ourselves.
What do you think?
 
duendy said:
The two main insights i got was when various talking said that they had given up RESPONSIBILITy for their OWN actions to a higher AUTHORITY. Thus they didn't have to THINK FOR THEMSELVES.
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...a mystical authority, perhaps...
Read Stanley Milgram's Obedience to Authority for a fascinating and frightening look at this.
 
if they're following orders, they have no other choice...
its orders, stupid. if they dont follow them, they'd probably be shot by thier commander for not following the orders.
 
Then I would shoot the commander before he shot me. If I'm going to die anyway knowing that what I'm told to do is wrong, then he's going with me!
 
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but if you were ordered to, you would have a viable excuse to torture someone.
 
According to British military law a soldier has the duty to disobey an illegal order. That was why the General Staff refused to invade Iraq until the Attorney-General said [untruthfully, by the look of things] that it was legal.
 
illegal?
there are now rules in war!!
its total fucking war!
win at any and all costs...
world war 1 and 2 tought us this, and yet we still obey the swiss!!(geneva convention)
 
There always have been laws in warfare. the fact that people don't always obey lawss isn't an argument for abolishing law.
 
its...war, though.
why should there be laws of war?
i ignore such laws, and if i join the military, i dont give a shit if you're a civillian or not. if you're in my way, i'll kill you.
thats what is supposed to be: unrestricted, unmerciful, unfeeling, and indifferent.
 
There was nothing stated about a war only if torture should be done if ordered at anytime it would seem to me. There's no excuse to torture someone when you can administer a drug that will allow them to talk without hurting them. That wouldn't be torture but another way to get the truth. The drug wouldn't hurt the person or leave any residule side effects.
 
no, duendy, ive never been tortured.
i dont have any sympathy for my enemies, though.
so i don't care if one were to use torture of enemies of me.
not that you are an enemy, of course. i have nothing but respect for you.

cosmic, the thing is, the drug doesnt have the after-affect of rattling their nerves and scaring the fuck out of them.
 
hahhhh Hapsburg, your saying on one hand you would torture yet have respect for 'me' (i know you didn't mean you'd torture me.....achem, so you SAY)...reminded me of a bit of that aforementioned documentary.

It was a south african torturer--a white guy. he had told us that in his toruturing times he'd tortured to death 70, and torured 170 odd (he'd lost count).....He was talking about how he'd torture. and said one guy died in a certain way, and he had 'nothing but respect for him'.....well, if THAT's respect, what is ...torture and murder. you with me?

how can you respect ME Hapsburg, and yet feel it inyou that you could torture other members of the human race?...i am human

what i'm saying is is that you have to look at what you are saying. how can you even conCEIVE of EVER torturing another human being?...some of the tortuers last night claimed they'd had to be brainwashed before they could do it. yet here you are quite blatantly ready for the task. i find that very very VERY sad indeed.

WHY?
 
i never said i would torture "you"
you're assuming all this is directed at you, when i'm implying that i'd do whatever im told to do to an enemy. to someone who is an ally, or at least a neutral party, fuck no.
and in US, we have a slightly different miltary code. if dont do what you commander orders you to do, its insubordination, and you'll be arrested.
if im ordered to do something by a commander, ill do it, on risk of losing my career or my life.
 
noo, forget i mean you will torture me...please listen, for it might be hard to explain. i am HUMAN being. anyone you might torture in also a human being--do you agree?...so knowing, and feeling that, how could you even envisage torturing another human being, or animal?....you say cause the authority would demand it.
EXACTLY....reread first post of this thread, where i tell you THe two most startling linsight WHy people do torture and murder is blind alleginace to authority and not thinking for one's self. not taking responsibilty for you own action, because someone else claims to take that responsiblity......bringing me the image of the nazi who retorts why he's doing utter horror to other humans with "I am only doing my duty"

can you not see Hapsburg how wrong that is? how de-humanizing it is? how evil?
 
i can see what's wrong with it.
i just don't care about who is being interrogated.
if the authoroties are doing it, they probably have a good reason.
if they don't, why should i get involved.
 
Hapsburg said:
i can see what's wrong with it.

d)))I assume you mean, you see what is wrong with torturing?

i just don't care about who is being interrogated.

d))what if it was you mum, dad, sister, brother, friend......?

if the authoroties are doing it, they probably have a good reason.

d))and what 'ggod reason' is there to torture someone? now you are contradicting what i think you meant by your first statement--that you can see it is wrong. so...which is it? think for yourself. which Is it?

if they don't, why should i get involved.
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cause you are human with feelings.
 
i may be a human, and i may have feelings, but torture of people is one thing i choose not to get involved with.
why do you keep persisting with forcing me to believe your opinion.
 
Hapsburg said:
i may be a human, and i may have feelings, but torture of people is one thing i choose not to get involved with.

d)))what do you mean? first you say one thing...then another. you are all over the place.
You began saying that you would torture if tole to....right?

why do you keep persisting with forcing me to believe your opinion.
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am i forcing you? we are discussing. thats what this place is. if you dont want to, whay are you herer in the thread i have started called Torture. Obviously i am against it, and challenge people who are for it. which is what i am doing
 
im for it if it's useful.
torture for recreation is wrong.
thats my official stance.
 
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