Torture

[duendy]

Duendy, my volunteering to be tortured has nothing to do with my views of torture. What kind of sick question is that?

d)_))It is not sick. you VIEWS are sick though.

...and more to the point, what possible good would it do one way or the other?

d))errr they might CHANGE them!

My main point is that absolutes are simply not justifiable in this world. You might think so, but an absolute can be refuted with just one simple example ...which I think I did, even if it was a highly unlikely scenario. In that regard, torture, like most anything else, can be justified in SOME cases. Therefore, to say torture is NEVER justified is erroneous, wrong!

Baron Max

jezzzusa yu and your 'absolu--fukin-lutes, whatever they are.
have you not SEEN the disgustingly, obscence photographs of human being, naked, humiliated, degraded, tortured. Does that obscentity have no effect on you?? you are an ABSOLUTE disgrace!

 

[Blue_UK]

Torture is something to be avoided at all cost, but I don't see why just because "I wouldn't like it to happen to me" means "I shouldn't use it on other people".

The feeling of compassion is a very strong feeling in most people - and I am no exception. But I fully acknowledge that it is just that - a feeling. I am prepared to take the pain when I put salt on a wound to disinfect it (in fact, when I know what's causing the pain and have no fear of being further damaged, it doesn't really cause that much discomfort) and this can also be applied to pain caused emotionally.

If you truly understand that emotional pain, 'right' and 'wrong' are just signals then you can bring your self to do some pretty terrible things for your own benefit.

Please don't judge me too quickly, I do believe that justice should be in place to protect members of our society (I won't do you, if you won't do me). Of course, if another society is unable to 'do us' then there is no reason to extend this nicety to them. Least of all for the sake of misunderstood compassion.

 

[Baron Max]

have you not SEEN the disgustingly, obscence photographs of human being, naked, humiliated, degraded, tortured. Does that obscentity have no effect on you??

Yeah, I saw those pictures. So what? Those people have no value to me, they're someone that I don't even know, why should I give a big rat's ass what happens to them? What ...am I supposed to have compassion for people just 'cause they look like they might by human? Why?

You seem to have so much compassion for humanity, why are you not overly wrought about the 8,000 kids that died today of EASILY CURED diseases? That's right, some 8,000 kids die every single day ...EVERY SINGLE DAY! Yet you're makin' a major issue out of "torturing" a few lousy prisoners. Wow!

If you want to exercise your compassion, pick something that really means something, not just what the media says you should be concerned about and shows you a few "oh, my god" pictures.

you are an ABSOLUTE disgrace!

If that means that I'm different from you, then thank you very much!

Baron Max

 

[rae]

i just don't care about who is being interrogated.
if the authoroties are doing it, they probably have a good reason.
if they don't, why should i get involved.

This right here, is american patriotism, at its finest.

I think it's sad that you'd follow blindly without asking questions for yourself as to why someone would ask you to do such things. That is how war happens in the first place. People follow blindly, and fall for propaganda.

 

[Baron Max]

I think it's sad that you'd follow blindly without asking questions for yourself as to why someone would ask you to do such things. That is how war happens in the first place. People follow blindly, and fall for propaganda.

So why do you think we elect senators and representatives? You seem to be suggesting that the citizens should do all of that for themselves ...do away with the government officials altogether?! Or that we should elect them, but never listen to them or let them do their jobs?!

Baron Max

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Since true democracy doesn't exist in this world personal responsibility is still of importance in dealings with 'your' government.

 

[spidergoat]

What ...am I supposed to have compassion for people just 'cause they look like they might by human? Why?

Why be in Iraq, then? Why not leave now? Oh, because we are supposed to help the Iraqi people? The people we tortured are the Iraqi people! What's that, tough love?

 

[Baron Max]

The people we tortured are the Iraqi people! What's that, tough love?

Yeah, but see, I don't think we "tortured" them! Even with all the pictures and bullshit commentary. I underwent much of the same "torture" in boot camp, for god's sake!! Torture? No, I don't think so ....well, maybe for a bunch of mamby-pamby, doo-gooder, wussies ...maybe!

Baron Max

 

[Thersites]

You forget, BM, that there are also secret CIA run camps. If this is what the USA does in supposedly civilised detention centres, what do they do there? In fact, your own attitude suggests that your time in"boot camp" did you quite a bit of psychological damage, even though, presumably you were there voluntarily, and knwew the limits of what yopu chose to undergo.

 

[Don Quixote]

...a mystical authority, perhaps...
Read Stanley Milgram's Obedience to Authority for a fascinating and frightening look at this.

Not really that frightening. Just shows how dumb the average middle aged american male is.

hmmmm...I suppose that is firghtning enough

 

[Hapsburg]

As long as I'm not the one being tortured, I don't care, because it's not me being tortured.

 

[Baron Max]

You forget, BM, that there are also secret CIA run camps.

Well, if they're secret, how do you know about them?

Whenever anyone wants to scare the public, all they have to do is suggest "something" that the CIA is doing .....and the sheeple get all nervous and uptight. What a fuckin' joke!

...your own attitude suggests that your time in "boot camp" did you quite a bit of psychological damage,...

"Psychological damage"? What the fuck is that? ....LOL! How do you measure that? ...take out the brain and weigh it or something?! ...LOL!

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

As long as I'm not the one being tortured, I don't care, because it's not me being tortured.

Yes and that's true of most people. But the news media has made it fashionable and trendy to "care"! ...so being the good little followers that most people are, they pretend to "care" and pretend to be upset and worried.

What I find so interesting is that during any of the national/international disasters or conflicts or problems, the amount of dollars spent on entertainment in the US remains about the same. What does that tell you about how much people "care"?

During the tsunami disaster, when people were asked to give money, the dollars spent on entertainment actually went UP slightly! ....LOL! Oh, yeah, people "care" .......and to prove it, they just say so. ...LOL!!

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

I would make an exception for the BTK killer, he should have done to him what he did to others.

 

[Baron Max]

Well, if you can make an exception for one individual, then we can make exceptions to any individual, right? So, I agree, let's torture the BTK killer .....but then I want to add a couple of more people to the exception, okay? ;=)

Is the BTK killer worse the al-Zarquawi? Osama bin whats-his-name? Saddam Hussy? Mugabe?

My personal thought is that torture is okay for anyone and everyone! In the olden days, torture was good show for the people of the towns and villages ...sorta' like television and movies and video games are today, huh?

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

I would do it just for the justice of it, not to get any real information out of him. If people were honest about it, I could see doing the same to Osama or Zarquawi, but not to Saddam, since his exploits were largely with our blessings. All the underlings and people that were sold to us because of some unknown grudge someone had against them, and people we have no idea are innocent or guilty should all be treated fairly.

 

[Baron Max]

...people we have no idea are innocent or guilty should all be treated fairly.

I agree ....we should torture them all equally!

But like I said, if you can justify it for one person, someone can justify for others. I have no problem with it, I don't know the people and don't give one damned shit about 'em.

Baron Max

 

[Thersites]

Well, if they're secret, how do you know about them?

Because their existence is acknowledged, not where most of them are or much about exactly what they do. Given the CIA's record, if they keep quiet about something it's almost certainly unpleasant and probably loopy.

"Psychological damage"? What the fuck is that? ....LOL! How do you measure that? ...take out the brain and weigh it or something?! ...LOL!

No, just read what you write

 

[Baron Max]

Because their existence is acknowledged, ...

Then it isn't secret, is it?

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

The real purpose of the torture in Guantanimo, I'm beginning to realize, is not to get information at all. It is to establish a reputation about Guantanimo and other prisons so that we can threaten people with getting sent there. It's another psy-op. Maybe we really did abuse a couple prisoners as an experiment, but it only shows how desperate the administration is, and how stupid.