The psychology of atheists and theists

Acitnoids said:
So you are saying that Jim Jones is an anomaly?
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More specifically, he is representative of one type of extreme.

You say there are two extremes yet your examples in this specific case do not "wade in the water".
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Not sure what you mean by "wade in the water".
Just as one can have faith in something for no good reason to one's detriment, the same holds true for doubt.
There is practically an infinite number of examples for both.

Is Freedom, Social justice, equality something that can be exploited? How would that be happening today?
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Freedom and justice (or security) are traded off against each other. Every time you stop at a red light, you forgo your freedom for an element of security.

As for how such things are exploited to offer adverse results, it occurs through monopolies that unbalance the natural tension that keeps things healthy .... and inevitably, when left unchecked, erode their very own authority structures. Classic example (I say by observation ... I find contemporary politics too much of a mess to specifically identify and vouch for any party) is American politics that is monopolized by the right and American media/education that is monopolized by the left. Mix them together, and you get strange "solutions" like Trump.

I say yes it can be exploited. That is the lesson to be learnt from Jim Jones. Should we gives a fuck if others can exploit these fundamental truths?
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Generally, both individually and collectively, we manouver with extremes. When something is unbalanced, the tendency is to not seek balance, but unbalance it in the opposite direction ... thus on it goes.
 
Musika said:
More specifically, he is representative of one type of extreme.
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Nobody in the extremes set out to be in the extreme. They just find themselves there. Blind faith is what leads to such extremes.


Not sure what you mean by "wade in the water".
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That is a reference to John 5:1-13. The point given by me was; how much faith should be put into Equity, Social Justice, Freedom. All of which you answered in this post. Thank you for "wading in the waters".
John 5:1-13 said:
After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.

3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.

4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.

5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.

6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?

7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.

8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.

12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?

13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
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Just as one can have faith in something for no good reason to one's detriment, the same holds true for doubt.
There is practically an infinite number of examples for both.
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Antidotes yes, but no other example comes to mind than the well documented influence of Jim Jones. The Faithful and the non believer alike where smitten by his charisma. Those on the extreme, one way or the other, can not recognize that they are the one being extreme.


Generally, both individually and collectively, we manouver with extremes. When something is unbalanced, the tendency is to not seek balance, but unbalance it in the opposite direction ... thus on it goes.
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Unfortunately, I completely agree. The question being asked here is about the psychology of those extremes.

One could say, historically, that creationism is one side of the extreme while Eugenics is the other side. Jim Jones was uninspired by either of those extremes. Yet, nearly 1000 people took their own lives based on his words/charisma.
 
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Acitnoids said:
Nobody in the extremes set out to be in the extreme. They just find themselves there.
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Well, that excludes Jim Jones. He certainly set out to break conformity from the start.


Blind faith is what leads to such extremes.
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As does blind doubt.
That's the bind of negotiating a balanced path between diametric opposites.


Antidotes yes, but no other example comes to mind than the well documented influence of Jim Jones. The Faithful and the non believer alike where smitten by his charisma. Those on the extreme, one way or the other, can not recognize that they are the one being extreme.
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Jim Jones is not anecdotal?


Unfortunately, I completely agree. The question being asked here is about the psychology of those extremes.

One could say, historically, that creationism is one side of the extreme while Eugenics is the other side. Jim Jones was uninspired by either of those extremes. Yet, nearly 1000 people took their own lives based on his words/charisma.
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Due to the collapse of communism in the 80s/90s, most people are unaware of the left and right political tension that coloured so much of the era. To try and chalk out the antics of Jim Jones between eugenics and creationism (which is, in itself, a diametric with equal parts vagueness and strangeness) seems to be more of a desperate measure to rewrite history or contextualize his religious undeepinnings and/or politics in unrelated fields.
 
Musika said:
Well, that excludes Jim Jones. He certainly set out to break conformity from the start.
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I was not referring to Jim Jones. I was referring to his followers. The "Faithful".

As does blind doubt.
That's the bind of negotiating a balanced path between diametric opposites.
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Blind doubt does not lead to the mass suicide of almost 1000 people. I do not disagree with your point. I just don't see how doubt has lead to the pain and loss of 1000s of families.

Due to the collapse of communism in the 80s/90s, most people are unaware of the left and right political tension that coloured so much of the era.
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I am very aware. Just as the political and social economic situations of the 2nd and 1st centuries BCE/CE led to the rise of a new faith we now call Christianity.

To try and chalk out the antics of Jim Jones between eugenics and creationism (which is, in itself, a diametric with equal parts vagueness and strangeness) seems to be more of a desperate measure to rewrite history or contextualize his religious undeepinnings and/or politics in unrelated fields.
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Yeah, those are probably bad examples between the extreme of faith and the extreme of doubt but once again. I am referring to the followers of Jim Jones. The "Faithful". None of them went in with the mindset that being part of a suicide cult was their end goal. Yet, nearly 1000 people followed blindly the words of another.
 
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