Creationist questions evolution

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jan Ardena, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    11,594
    Did you believe humans were made by Darwinian evolution?
    If f yes, how did d it make man, and give him the ability build vast empires, and civilisations.
    I’ve looked and it is not specific:

    If believe in n God. As it seems s natural time believe that n God, I don’t need to be convinced. You on the other are convinced that there is no evidence s no God, which you s why you don’t believe in God.

    You can’t answer it because you’re here is no answer. It poses a problem for you because you are committed to your delusion.m

    Jan.
     
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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Evolution merely deals with changes over time of a species...
    Evolution does not deal with the origin of life.
    The theory tell us that at some point all life on the Earth was our common ancestor...so over time things slowly change and a new species evolves.
    At some point humans shared a common ancestor with the apes not that we come from apes but both apes and humans came from that animal.
    And that animal came from a long period where its common ancestor with other mamnals was something different again.
    Many folk who attack evolution dont understand its rather limited input on life...it deals with only change over time that sees new species evolve.
    Evolution does not even attempt to ask those questions.
    Many theists think evolution is wrong but they actually dont know what it says and does not say..Jan you should find out what it says rather than attack strawmen built by those who dont know what evolution days and what it deals with.

    As to how did humans build empires etc big question and I hope you are not silly enough to yry and answer it by saying it was all due to god☺
    And look if you find you cant find an answer, or if science makes a mistake that does not prove god...
    If evolution is wrong that does not prove god..if the big bang is wrong that does not prove god...god is not a good answer to questions that you cant find an answer.
    Sorry I cant work out what you are saying.

    But if you want me to answer something I will try...if you seek only speculation I can offer opinion on anything without a clue...just like all other humans☺


    Alex
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    By Darwinian evolution.
    It happens. There's no creator involved.
    And that marks the psychology of the overt Abrahamic theist posting on a science forum. They need a creator, a responsible party not themselves, for everything. They need to attach blame, and it can't be to the believers or the belief.
    It's a question that can be answered yes or no, immediately, by anyone familiar with the Bible and willing to be accountable for their answer.
    But deflecting accountability, to their God or to evildoers, is important behavior in the psychology of overt Abrahamic theists in their posting on science forums. The common excuse is that being accountable is arrogance, pride - either playing God or playing Devil. The common result is that they can post as they do here - in fundamental dishonesty - without qualm.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Why not learn what "evolution" and "natural selection" means. You clearly do not understand that evolution does not purposely make or give any abilities. And natural selection does not select which species survive, it selects out the species that do not survive.

    Evolution is all by probabilistic mutation and survivability to procreate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    It seems many theists really dont know what evolution says.

    They seem to think one species can give birth to another and where they get that from I have no idea.

    They also fail to appreciate that change takes place over a long time. An ape could no give birth to a human ..but they think that is the thrust of the theory...of course if they tead what it says they would not be so silly...maybe but mostly their view of evolution is irrational and stupid.

    I think if the ones who think they have a problem with evolution that they would be less concerned if they took the time to read up and actually learn what the theory covers.

    Also what they fail to understand is if evolution was proved wrong their burden of proof remains...even if evolution is wrong it does not mean the answer is god..they dont get that at all..however they almost seem to say ..evolution cant work therefore god exists...no no no.

    If all science was proved in error or absolutely incorrect that does nothing to prove god it only proves science wrong and does nothing to suggest god exists.
    But of course science is always 100% correct it has to be to be published and peer reviewed..religion heck flaw after flaw after flaw..
    Too many flaws to list yet not one incorrect aspect to science...not a single one...if we find one it gets correcyed immediately...imagine teligion doing ot that way..
    Never ever...and when you point put a flaw..slavery in the bible as an example...do they say ..yes that is wrong..no they bend over backwards to say slavery is actually ok.

    To prove god exists is an issue they can not manage with positive input ..that is offerring stand alone proof..but hold onto the line..I can not think of a better idea therefore god.

    Yeh great way to find truth.

    And so to move somewhat to the thread topic I would say one thing that seems different between the two is that atheists understand the burden of proof and the requirents of evidence whereas thesists seem content with out proof being happy to justify themselves by a call that "its my faith" which is really shorthand for "I have no evidence but I believe in god because I want to and therefore I must be right"

    Theists see no problem with accepting heresay evidence if it relates favourably to their belief...atheists seem more demanding of real evidence and reject heresay just as do the courts.

    Atheist tend to look at what is before them and try and work out possible alternate explanations and not too worried if they must say "I dont know" whereas theists look at all things and determine that somehow someway God is involved and they must have an answer as to why they are here and can not accept their insignificance and one life mortality.

    Atheist seem more tolerant of others whereas theists seem to expect everyone must do it their way because their way is gods way.

    Atheists seem to manage personal responsibility whereas theists determine it is God who makes the calls and responsible for everything.

    Atheists dont fear death in the same way as theists and not driven to bank on an after life to accept a cruddy present life.

    Atheists dont fear a superstitious prospect of hell whereas so many theists believe it is real and hold genuine fear that they will go to hell for eternal punishement if they admit the truth that there can be no god in an eternal universe.

    Theists seem to accept the killing and cruelty because they think there are better times waiting for all in the next life.

    An atheist sees the suffering and understands those poor victims have got the worst of things and it wont improve...and asks why cant your god fix it..he doesnt therefore he does not exist..theist replies freewill without which we wont be human...pathetic really.

    Theists too me seem untrustworthy as they dont worry about double crossing another human and only keep their word with god...thru fear of hell no doubt.

    Atheists are mostly direct in discussion whereas theists, certainly here delight in evasive tacticts and often can be accused of being dishonest by others who expect discussion to be less convoluted.

    Theists seem to fall for the con artists..one only has to look at the huge wealth accumulated by various telly evangalists...it is mind numbing these con men make such easy livings.

    I daw one calling for vash to buy his third private jet so he can sptead the word of the lord...how many folk get conned to pay for a private jet...

    Theists fall for faith healing, answered prayers, miracles talking in tounges and mostly believe women are less than men and deserve subserviant rolls.

    Alex
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    11,594
    Of course it is not more reasonable.
    You are simply denying, and rejecting the God that you know exists, by grasping at any straw.

    Now here's a good example of blind faith, ladies and gentleman.

    By anybody who can comprehend what you're writing (including your atheist chums too).

    The only danger you present, is the one where you lie to yourself. You do not believe in no universe, you do not believe in no darwinism.
    Both are simply pacifiers. They are placed in your psyche to justify your delusion. Snap out of it man! Before you really start to believe it.

    Don't worry about how the religions approach things. You aren't there yet.

    You are in two minds. Outwardly you act as though you're reasonable, and rational. Inwardly you fiercely defend you delusion.
    You are at odds with yourself, and you have demonstrated that in the past.

    Your problem is, denial.

    Because the nature is what it is.
    You are part nature (body, mind), and part spiritual (spirit-soul/ego).
    The former acts in accordance with nature.
    The latter is transcendental to nature, and is eternal, just like it's source.

    Your desire to not want to be killed, or even die, is in accordance with, and due, to your spiritual nature.
    If you were truly just a product of nature, you would embrace finality, because that is natures way. Everything has to come to an end.
    From your delusional perspective, there is no right, no wrong. Nothing matters, as you're just the result of some random process.

    You misunderstand.
    Which would you rather eat, organic food, or genetically modified food. If you were given the choice?
    Me. I pick organic every time. Why because it is wholesome, appealing, and helps to keep a nice immune system, so we can keep crap at bay.
    What good is food, if you scoop out all the nutrients?
    What good is a human being, if you scoop out it's humanity?

    I'm never evasive.
    You just need to give more thought to the questions and points you raise.
    Sometimes the best way to understand something (assuming you do), is answer questions for yourself, rather that being told by outside source.
    Of course it doesn't work if you're in denial. But as you are probably the most honest atheist I have spoken to, I think you deserve the opportunity to be honest with yourself, and the best way for you to do that, is to accept the most honest answers you come up with when I pose a question to you.

    jan.
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    8,587
    For artificial Darwinian evolution you only need look at household bacteria and at fancy chicken farmers.
    Both mutate at forced rates. Both will change into new patterns by Human artificial imitation of Natural selection based on financial considerations.

    The difference between the two is that in the evolution of household bacteria, the weakest bacteria are selected out by our use of anti-bacterials and anti-septics causing the survival only of the strongest , most resistant individuals in our homes. (not good).

    However, with the breeding of fancy chickens, the chickens with most desirable traits are intentionally selected in by the use of selective breeding, such as for fancy plumage.

    p.s. Darwin was an avid pigeon breeder. That's how he tested his theory, before he revealed his work.

    I am confident that Alex's perspective is very much in line with the evolved (refined) hypothesis of Darwinian Evolution and the concept of Natural Selection.

    Alex, what say you??
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  11. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I think I understand what it says and certainly what it does not say.

    Believers generally have it wrong so wrong there is little point trying to educate them.

    Heck if they just read a paragraph in Wiki they would realise how wrong they are about what it says...but why would you bother with Wiki if you have the good book..no point in hearing out those fancy scientists with their facts and data and observations when its all been explained by God to folk in the bronze age and passed on word of mouth to be finally recorded edited and translated and some authors identified and credentials not sought and certainly not required.



    ...what could those scientists know over those folk from the bronze age.

    As to the universe my belief that it is eternal is loosley based on the laws of thermal dynamics...and although we can observe a specific evolvement of our current universe that evolvement does not suggest that it could not be eternal...to argue that it is not eternal evidence would be needed to show how the evolvement could start at nothing which if you want to prove god fit him in right there.
    The big bang does not suggest that the initial universe was nothing it only deals with the evolvement of something already existing and then expanding...the eternal universe is not eliminated by the big bang in my view.

    If God claims to have created the universe what did he say and who did he tell...the start of the good book seems like some annonomous author just claims it happened as opposed to God saying how he did it...anyways what did God say to the author exactly...or did the author get it from someone else.



    Alex
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
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  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, Jan, you can't use that as an argument.
    Very few people have a clear comprehension of what faith is. It is being used as junk-food all over the world.

    Jan, how many people do you think have a clear comprehension of what faith is?
    You, and who else? Musika clearly doesn't.

    As long as we have Creation Museums we need to worry about religious dietary values.
    https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200707/creationmuseum.cfm

    People leaving that museum actually believe that The Flintstones is a historical documentary.



    This is an example of comprehension by theists? God help us!.......

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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Nooooo, Jan , you can't be serious. "Irreducible complexity"? Give me a break.
    This hopelessly misinformed assumption was settled in court years ago.
    where it was proven that Flagella are not irreducibly complex. They are evolved from microtubules which fill a range of evolved motile and information transfer functions.

    Jan, in order to understand religion, one must first understand science. Only then can you draw "enlightened" boundaries between spiritualism and rationalism.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You don't understand evolution at all, do you.
     
  15. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Why is it?


    How did this complex specified information evolve?

    Nice try.
    You know there is a God, but you deny and reject. You can’t help it.


    I know atheism isn’t your worldview, silly.
    You know there is a God.
    You have to borrow from the theist worldview (bummer, huh!

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    Kind of like, “”I hate you mom...
    ...can I bring my dirty laundry round tonight”.

    Jan.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  16. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    So you don’t know how all the complex specified information appears in order to make new systems and body parts.
    I bet you weren’t even aware that new parts and sytems needed new information to be built. Yet you still accept this mad idea.

    You sir, have blind faith.

    jan.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Silly.

    Darwinian evolutionary theory is carefully reasoned from evidence. The building of new information according to that theory is straightforward. A child can demonstrate it right in front of you, if you have any interest in the matter - or you could observe the thermodynamic principles in action by watching a potato plant grow from an eye in a hydroponic jar, as hundreds of thousands of schoolchildren have before you.

    He has information you reject, by assumption. He reasons from it, an approach you attack as threatening to your faith. And so you slander him - one comprehensive ad hominem argument against reasoning from evidence, brought to this forum as a work of mission.

    That's how you justify your dishonesty, bad faith, and devotion to personal insult and slander - as a work of mission. Your faith has made you a bearer of false witness, an agent of the Great Deceiver, a corrupter of souls.

    None so blind as those who will not see, remember?
     
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Jans approach does more harm to him than anyone else.
    I am not an intellectual giant but Jan insists on demonstrating he is less informed than me.
    I did have a chuckle imaginig Jans view of god in his design and spare parts room designing and building new species...Jan can only be an atheist running his own false flag to make theists appear dishonest and uneducated...
    I was going to tell him about dna but no ..its probably beyond his world view ...so it is him who chooses the path of ignorance rather than the path to enlightenment...let him have his scriptures and let him retain his bronze age superstitious links...ignorance is bliss for him...let him dream let him imagine his made up god ... he has his Santa and is happy.
    Alex
     
  19. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    If a child can demonstrate it, as easily as you say, you should have no trouble explaining it.

    Well...?

    Jan.
     
  20. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Alex, you are a lost cause.

    Jan
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Nor did I, or others, the first few times you tried that deflection.

    Your faith has made you a corruptor, an agent of the Great Deceiver.
    And that is how you represent your God, on these forums.

    It does no harm to him. He's not risking anything he hasn't already lost.
     
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  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No, you're in denial. Deep down you know there is no God...

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  23. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. I accept God.

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    Jan.
     

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