The Lost Experiment

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Yaniv

Registered Member
Classical physics predicts weight should NOT change at increasing temperatures, while relativistic physics predicts weight should increase a tiny bit but likely immeasurable.

I searched the literature and found several papers (Glaser 1990, Dmitriev 2003) showing weight of heated metals actually DECREASES at increasing temperatures.

I have not seen any experiment showing weight does NOT change at different temperatures as predicted by traditional physics. Have you seen such an experiment ?
 
Yaniv said:
Classical physics predicts weight should NOT change at increasing temperatures, while relativistic physics predicts weight should increase a tiny bit but likely immeasurable.

I searched the literature and found several papers (Glaser 1990, Dmitriev 2003) showing weight of heated metals actually DECREASES at increasing temperatures.

I have not seen any experiment showing weight does NOT change at different temperatures as predicted by traditional physics. Have you seen such an experiment ?
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Temperature increase means increased energy.
Dmitriev is a crackpot, what paper are you referring to?
 
Weight per unit volume may decrease, but this this would be offset by the total volume increase. Overall weight would increase with added energy as explained above.
 
. . however . . . density of metals (mass/volume) DOES change with temperature. . . due to expansion/contraction of the metal with temperature changes. That's why (for instance) one must chill one metal part (or heat the other mating piece) so that it fits onto a mating piece . . . this is how roller-bearing races are "tight-fit" to axles when the temperatures equalize.
 
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To find Dmitriev paper google "Influence of the Temperature of a body on its Weight".
 
Well a hot metal will outgas atoms at some slow rate, I doubt one would notice it make a difference to the weight though :).
 
I can't help but notice his experimental results make no mention of uncertainties or potential errors. Any good experimentalist discusses the accuracy of his equipment and the potential sources of errors in model and measurements. It hardly fills me with confidence.
 
AlphaNumeric said:
I can't help but notice his experimental results make no mention of uncertainties or potential errors. Any good experimentalist discusses the accuracy of his equipment and the potential sources of errors in model and measurements. It hardly fills me with confidence.
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I've not read the paper, but if what you say is true then any results he quotes in his paper are meaningless. Without an uncertainty estimate you have no idea if you're actually measuring something, or whether your results are simply noise.
 
Yaniv said:
To find Dmitriev paper google "Influence of the Temperature of a body on its Weight".
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I found it. Non peer-reviewed, not worth spending my time. If the system is closed, increasing the temperature increases the total energy of the body. Even if the system is open, if the temperature of the body increases , that means that the body absorbed more radiation than it emitted, so, its "mass" increased. Einstein showed that in 1905, there is no need to read whatever nonsense Dmitriev wrote.
 
Tach said:
If the system is closed, increasing the temperature increases the total energy of the body. Even if the system is open, if the temperature of the body increases , that means that the body absorbed more radiation than it emitted, so, its "mass" increased. Einstein showed that in 1905, .....
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Bravo Tach!! That is the correct answer!!
 
You all believe that weight should NOT change measureably at increasing temperatures. Great statements but where is the experimental support ? Don't send me bullshit. Send me a reference.
 
Yaniv said:
You all believe that weight should NOT change measureably at increasing temperatures. Great statements but where is the experimental support ? Don't send me bullshit. Send me a reference.
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Quit with the attitude and find it yourself.:rolleyes:
 
Yaniv said:
You all believe that weight should NOT change measureably at increasing temperatures. Great statements but where is the experimental support ? Don't send me bullshit. Send me a reference.
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Here. It is more than 100 years old but you and your buddy Dmitriev seem to be totally ignorant of it. Could it be that you are one and the same person?
 
Tach said:
I found it. Non peer-reviewed, not worth spending my time. If the system is closed, increasing the temperature increases the total energy of the body. Even if the system is open, if the temperature of the body increases , that means that the body absorbed more radiation than it emitted, so, its "mass" increased. Einstein showed that in 1905, there is no need to read whatever nonsense Dmitriev wrote.
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Look at the sun-earth relationship as an example.

In order for the sun to heat the earth the sun must transfer mass to the earth, in effect, the sun gets less massive and the earth gets more massive (I didn't say more dense). Since the earth has angular momentum around the sun, transferring energy from the sun to earth means the earth gains angular momentum and the sun's mass has decreased. That means the earth's orbit gets larger, and the earth moves away from the sun. So how is it again you measure the increased "weight" of the earth when in fact it is moving away from the sun, not towards the sun??
 
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Motor Daddy said:
Look at the sun-earth relationship as an example.

In order for the sun to heat the earth the sun must transfer mass to the earth, in effect, the sun gets less massive and the earth gets more massive (I didn't say more dense). Since the earth has angular momentum around the sun, transferring energy from the sun to earth means the earth gains angular momentum and the sun's mass has decreased. That means the earth's orbit gets larger, and the earth moves away from the sun. So how is it again you measure the increased "weight" of the earth when in fact it is moving away from the sun, not towards the sun??
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There is no way to even BEGIN to address the nonsense that you posted.
 
Tach said:
There is no way to even BEGIN to address the nonsense that you posted.
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Which one (or more) of the facts do you deny?

1. The sun heats the earth.
2. The sun loses mass.
3. If the sun heats the earth, the earth must gain mass, which doesn't mean it gets more dense.
4. The earth has angular momentum around the sun.
5. The orbit of the earth around the sun is increasing.

Tach, you may be a pretty fart smeller in math, but you have limited vision of reality.
 
Motor Daddy said:
Which one (or more) of the facts do you deny?

1. The sun heats the earth.
2. The sun loses mass.
3. If the sun heats the earth, the earth must gain mass, which doesn't mean it gets more dense.
4. The earth has angular momentum around the sun.
5. The orbit of the earth around the sun is increasing.
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Over millions of years, the Earth rotation has been slowed by gravitational interactions with the Moon; both rotational energy and angular momentum is being slowly transferred to the Moon.

Why do you keep posting stuff that you know nothing about?

Tach, you may be a pretty fart smeller in math, but you have limited vision of reality
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Yes, I can smell you from miles away.
 
This theoretical paper (I think) predicts weight should NOT change at increasing temperatures (maybe increase tiny immeasurable bit). Where are the EXPERIMENTAL results to support this paper ?
 
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