Still thinking Lori...

Sunday school training??? LMAO...
Well, from what I have been taught..Satan
was indeed charge over all the music ect..
Hey, have a question before I get into all
this other stuff. If God is perfect..and
created all things..including Lucifer..then
tell is it possible to sin in heaven??? just a thought..
I do believe that we are indeed spirits.
I believe in karma... kind of your bibles
version of what you sow you shall reap thing.
I think that there are some form of great
spirits that lead us...I think the indians
had the right idea regarding this. Like
I stated before, when I attended my brothers
house blessing..they called upon the great
spirits of the earth to enter the home. I
felt something present there, and it was not
bad. It was warm and kind. Again, I would
like to point out..I attend this house blessing..the first one I have been to..and
I felt something which I had never felt
in a church or when..yes, at one time I did want to talk about brainwashing..
well I was.. I however, was only following
a stupid ritual. Did God appear? No! Did
God manifest in, peace, warmth,
NO!!!!!!! hmmmmmmmmmmm..what do you make
of that??? Perhaps that maybe Flash is onto
something... Maybe just maybe that Flash
found truth in that experience..truth being
God is not real! You know the saying, fool
me once shame on you..fool me twice shame
on me.. I will not be shamed again!!!
Yeah, I do believe that the aliens and the
spirits of this earth work hand in hand.
I believe that the aliens have learned much
As far as the Satan assisting God in creating
aliens..if this was true (of course you
know what I believe regarding all of that)
and Satan/Lucifer did indeed help to create
the aliens..and did this before he fell from
grace..then that meant he was "right" with
God..which means God approved..which means
the aliens are good in the sight of God.
God is not suppose to create evil is he??
However, the bible states god does create
It still amazes me how you can believe
in a God who claims to be perfect.. who
cannot even make himself known to all.
If I started picturing a purple elephant in
my home...before for long..if I kept focusing
on it.. wham..I would start to believe it.
THEN.. thats when faith comes in, huh? Faith
that the purple elephant is there. Then
I could share this with others..and if they
started to use the same method I did, then
they too would believe that there was a
purple elephant in my home. This is the
same concept that happens when one believes
in God. Sure is funny that aliens and the
spirits of the earth can make theirselves
known to me.. but God can't. I did search
at one time for him. I used to be pretty
good at hide and seek...
If my post doesn't make any sense..well
I am under the influence of muscle relaxers
Muscle relaxers are fun. Weeeee! Ok, that was a long-ass post. I had to like jot down notes and shit. Starting from the top...I think that angels are given free will just like we are. It seems, though, that the stakes are higher for them, maybe because we are so easily influenced. God had to create evil in order to create free will. It's always a choice. That's why I can't stand it when people try to argue that He's some dictator-totally contrary, that's the point, and that's what people hate about it. Ultimately it is a person's own weakness and knowingly wrong-doings that create the hate towards God. People abhor the thought of judgement and what it means because they really can't stand themselves to one degree or another. That's why humility is definately important. Also, I don't think that fallen angels are allowed in heaven. As far as I know there is no sin in heaven. If there is when you get there, you didn't quite make it, you know? Angels operate in the same space that we do; we just can't see them. Doesn't that freak you out to know that angels are always watching you? Even when you're picking your nose! LMAO!

As far as the earth gods go, you're not like migrating back to polytheism are you? I thought that we had pretty much buried that notion. I just read a chapter in that book "The Source" (not "The Journey" like I said earlier, that's my study Bible) last night about Indian spirits, fairies, angels, ET's, and the like. And as a matter of fact, they are all very much alike in characteristics other than appearance, which that property seems to be changeable. That's why I think that they ARE all the same thing. The presentation changes to suit the weaknesses and obsessions of different cultures and ages, but they're all the exact same thing! And the thing is that the Bible tells us all we need to know about them, including, the repeated warning about them coming to you and taking credit for creation. Besides, I don't think that God wants to confuse us, do you? I think that it's supposed to be more obvious than that; it's not supposed to be confusing.

I've been there with the church thing, and you probably were being brain-washed. You have to be ready, you know, and you have to do it for yourself, and sometimes by yourself, because it's not always wise to trust someone else, even a church. It's more than just going to church and getting it for me. I had to look everywhere else first...that's kind of how I found you! I think that people don't like Christianity because of the concept of judgement, but forget about judgement! You are a good person, right? Good hearted, kind, charitable? Lots of people are, so focus on the gift of forgiveness and try your best.

Hey, you sounded like Bob Dole there for a minute!LOL

I kind of wrestle with the feelings that you get from these beings, or from the nature god or whatever. But I tend to think that if they are angels, then they would certainly be able to emit these feelings if they choose's the intent behind them that worries me. I may think differently if I experienced this myself, huh? This kind of goes back to the issue of mind control. How deceptive might they be? They say that the antichrist will come in peace and deceive many. Certainly he wouldn't be able to if all he could emit was evil.

I'm thinking that Satan may have helped to create man before Adam, and then ruled over that civilization until the fall. Pre-Adam. Which puts quite a different spin on things.

As far as God showing Himself, I know that it says we're created in His image, but what might that mean? Everythings interpretive, of course. I don't really consider God to be a man. I think that a lot of people naturally visualize God as a man, or having human qualities, when for all we know, it seems more likely that God is more of a force. God is everything and everywhere. Jesus was the man. And He did show Himself, and it's been documented. Why should we need anything else? If there are good and evil spirits at work on this earth, wouldn't it just add to the confusion if both were beaming down into your bedroom going, no, I'm the good one, no, I'm the good one, and back and forth. There is also proof in one's life. There is definate power behind faith; peace, and happiness, and miracles. That is proof. Also, He will come, and you will know it when He does. It says there will be no debate; everyone will know that He has come. This is a debate that we're having right now, right? The Bible tells you that if anyone comes before and says he is the christ, don't believe them. Over and over again it gives warnings of this nature. That is exactly what is happening with aliens. They are our creators, and they will support the antichrist, or point to him as their creator, or supreme spiritual being. Maitreya and his space buddies. Sounds like a rock band to me.
Once again I repeat the now-popular question: if there's free will, how could there possibly be a divine plan? You can't plan things in an unpredictable world dominated by free-wheeling (pun intended) people (and angels). In particular, you can't profecy anything, since with free will the future is unknown. That means, if you are right about God and free will, any statements about 'things to come' such as your end-of-the-world omens and stuff -- all those statements are worthless!! So, Lori, how do we reconcile these contradictory notions -- free will and predestination?
And you said I had a long-ass post??LMAO
ummmmm... I do not have time yet to respond
to your post... give me some time and I
will ...I drink so then I will think LMAO

YOu act as if I believe in god..well guess
what?????????????? I don't!!!!! I wouldn't
want god in my life if he was real!!!

[This message has been edited by Flash (edited May 26, 1999).]

One word...omnipotence. Don't ask me to relate to it, cause I can't. Think very, very "out of the box". How about negating the concept of time as we know it? We must admit that we have very limited "vision". Not easy to do, seeing as how hard we all work and study to be so smart, huh?

You really go out on the limb, don't you. You are willing to assume negative time just to keep your story consistent. In scientific world, we'd call that 'reaching'.

As for the so-called universal laws: notice how they only seem to apply to social mammals? Now, could it simply be that we evolved certain behaviors and reinforcements that are conducive to social cohesion? This sense of well-being, comfort, belonging you feel as a result of following the 'laws' -- that's exactly the kind of thing that should be happening to a social animal. And consider this: were those 'laws' not put down on stone, you'd still instinctively end up following them -- only because they'd make you feel accepted. If the existence of the 'universal' moral laws is your reason for faith in the supernatural, I'd ask you to consider evolution, a by far simpler explanation -- that doesn't require the assumption of things like time travel.

Hell yeah it's impossible to see everything. All the more reason for you to start trusting your eyes rather than your fantasies. The only reason humanity got this sophisticated, is because some people finally came around who were willing to stop searching, and start looking.
you know..I really am beginning to HATE
that word, "fruits"...
Ok, here is the reply...
First, ok, you have a point about angels
having free will.. otherwise, Lucifer
would have not have made the choice he
did..the "fall"...

Weakness and wrong doings create hate toward
God???? Where in the heck did you come up
with that one???? You actually think that people who do not believe in god give a flip
if what they do goes against god's rules/laws??? Weakness??? HA!
Fear of judgement is because people can't
stand themselves???? Excuse me, but I happen
to like myself just as I am..thank you very

Fallen angels are allowed in heaven..well
at least one of them..being
the book of Job in the Bible.

Angels operate in the same space
that we do; we just can't see them. Doesn't that freak you out to know that
angels are always watching you? Even when you're picking your nose! LMAO!

Ok, thats just gross!!!!!!!!!! ROFLMAO

Yeah, I do believe in polytheism..and why
not... wouldn't you rather it be that way???
They sure are a heck of a lot more merciful
than god!! As far as the creation thing
goes... If we are created in the image of
god..why couldn't aliens, spirits, angels
create??? As far as god confusing us..what
do you think the word of god is???

ummm.. you stated that you had to look
everywhere else first..and thats how you
found me.. did you mean that you were recently converted???? BTW..did you happen
to find god here in this forum????LMAO

Ok, let me make myself clear. I am not
a not want to be..want nothing
to do with it.. You are right..its a choice
one has to make on their own... I do not
want it... give me the spirits of earth
and aliens any day. I know I know..
F the fruit thing, ok?????? What if the
way I believe is right Lori..and you are the
one who is wrong? Then you have WASTED all
this time on a god that doesn't exist!!!

I have been compared to a lot of things,
but never compared to Bob Dole OMG LOL

Well, why when something other than the
one god that you believe in.. portrays
these "fruits' you keep talking about..
you turn it around and say its not good??
and then compare it to the works of the devil
or the fallen angels?? Besides, they reached
me.. if god wanted me..he could of had me
a long time ago.. hmmmmmm... either god
doesn't have free will, but rather is a
picky sob.. or he doesn't exist. I believe
the latter to be true.

as far as it being documented that Jesus
was the son of god blah blah blah.. do you
believe EVERYTHING you read???????
well, this is getting most interesting. I have to say after reading the last few entries, that I would lean further away from the argument for God.

I do this mainly because it is just one, in my opinion, closed-minded (sorry, Lori) view of our universe, and one that is very ancient (we need the Bible, version 2.0 already - hello Bill Gates?).

What gets me is this whole notion that ancient man said, "oh, I have it now, I have figured out the mysteries of the universe, and I will now transcribe them for all the world to benefit from forever after I am gone." Come on, ask yourself, who would really do this? Are people in positions of authority that benevolent? Check the historical record, and you will see that most leaders, secular and otherwise use MANIPULATION as the mightiest tool to keep the power. No, the bible is just one more manifesto to toss on the propaganda pile.

And let's stop to consider another point about the way in which the bible is written. Can we say allegory? Do we really want to take EVERYTHING in the bible at face value? Angels and Demons slugging it out? Please. hyperbole and rhetoric were great ways to build up a simple tenet such as "thou must love and obey god", otherwise we would all be bored silly with the dryness of the content.

Have you ever read anything by Homer? Do we really believe that in the Odyssey, the sun really stretched fingers across the sky as each chapter tells us, or that the scope of what happened in some of those epic passages transpired quite literally? No, there is a grandure to all of these works, something super-human which we too often accept as ground-level fact. I cannot believe we would spend so much time talking about God and whether he is really a man, and that there is proof for the material existence of Jesus. Sure, there are lessons to be learned from the bible to make us better persons - think in terms of a survival guide before the age of boy scouts. How to get along with others. These are humanistic traits which we just might arrive at on our own. But this does not also mean that we have to accept the doom and gloom prophecies, especially, as Boris so brilliantly points out when we also agree that there is free will. This excludes the possibility of a pre-determined fate (well done Boris).

Finally, I take offense at the notion of supiority in the Christian dogma. A good contrast is found in the American Indians of this country (us). They have been basically eradicated from the face of the earth by the white/christian/euro invasion force, the same group which runs around screaming for peace and brotherhood and all that. How noble is it to the righteous to look back on their history and say, "hey we killed off the red man and his tribes"? I suppose it is fine since they love God. And anyway, they are protected, because they can just ask for forgiveness. In the meantime, while the Armageddon clock ticks slowly by, they can continue to pollute the planet amass wealth and material worth, and then run to the nearest church each week for that down home enema for the soul.

See what happens when I am overdue for vacation?
Boris - I'm not exactly talking of negative time, but time all at once, or a lack of time altogether. Not time travel, either, but an all knowingness. I also don't think that it's going out on a limb to assume that there are dimensions and forces that exist that I may not be able to explain the dynamics of. I don't call it reaching; I call it humility. I understand the concept of evolution, but that is a physical or natural law, not a spiritual one. The case I'm arguing is actually against the concept of a spiritual evolution or progressive heirarchy. That is what the aliens and the antichrist will teach us. Anyway, have we really developed social cohesion? I think I might be able to argue against that if I really have to. And when we have achieved our fleeting moments of it, we have done so by following spiritual laws, and often times, in the name of God. That's kind of the point...why do we follow spiritual laws? Why does it work? Why are we different from animals? You're saying we've done this to feel accepted, but I don't think that many people in this day who do believe in God, and especially those who believe that Jesus was His son, feel accepted. It's more of a peace of mind thing. I'm sure that some turn to religion in order to belong to a group, but they don't get it. Some people will do just about anything to belong, right? That doesn't negate the teachings of a religion does it? I guess that someone may not need to believe in God to benefit from following these laws, but you do have a responsibility to recognize that they did not originate from man. And they did not originate from some chaotic mass of swamp gas either.

Flash - Ok, no more fruit. About the weakness and fear, that wasn't meant to be a personal attack. I think that you would have to agree that there is a natural aversion we humans have to the concept of judgement in any sense. It's ego-related.

Ok, I'll read Job. (Sunday school lol)

Your gods are not more merciful, Flash, they just don't teach judgement. Does it make you any happier really to know that humankind can continue to reincarnate until they get it right, as opposed to never really having to entertain the notion of getting it right, but knowing that as long as you understand that there is a true right, that is of God, and you respect it, you'll have all you ever need? I think you've gotten the wrong impression about God. I sense a judgement overload at some point in your didn't go to a Catholic school or something, did you? When Christians try to judge, instead of letting God take care of it, they drive people away from God. People don't have grace, and that is what you need to be a judge.

I'm a fairly recent convert I guess. It's been such a long road, it's hard to say when it started and ended. I'm too analytical not to question everything about it. In a way, I did find God here. What I read here tends to strengthen my faith.

I'll lay off of you for a while. It's not just you that I worry about. Give me a break; you've had some narly shit happen to you. I cry at Hallmark commercials! And if I'm wrong about all of this, that will be ok, because I know that my intentions are good. And, I don't believe everything I read. I'm very discerning generally. I believe you though.

Skepticus - I must say that I hope to God you're not good looking too. That's all I'm saying, cause you know I'm a married Christian, but damn you're eloquent! Ok, ok...ok. Anyway, "leaders" and rulers did not write the Bible. That would be too obviously corrupt. What power do Christians have nowadays? I know that it hasn't always been that way for people, but I think that any time any religion is used for purposes of power or control, it's intent is corrupt, and the "fruit" (sorry Flash, last time) will be rotten. Like I've said many times, the misuse of religion has probably turned more people away from God than aliens. But it's always the influence of Satan that leads us away, even if he's influening a minister or a priest. No "one" is controlling me. No man or God. Remember free will? No dictatorship here. I choose to believe (and then take all of this shit for it). lol

Of course the Bible is metaphorical in nature. It says that in the Bible. Some people try to act like they don't "get" that. Usually to propagate some egotistical perversion, like polygamy or racism or snake charming. Or people like the amish, who just want to have their own little island, cut off from the rest of us low-life sinners.

Angels and demons slugging? Are you being metaphorical? So you still don't believe in spirits, huh? What's it gonna take, man?

The Bible does do a rather perfect job of telling us how to get along with each other. Why then is it so hard for us? Lots of reasons, from misinterpretation via ego-interruption, to malicious intent for power, to fear of judgement...all of which is in our nature, as the Book tells us. Why???? It's the angels, silly. Do you think that this world needs a few moral teachings? Look around. Again, you want to believe in the truth behind the fluffy stuff, and just ignore the consequenses of not following the rules. It's a bitter pill. I mean a bitter scroll.

Our destiny is not pre-determined to us, or to angels, only to Him. Omnipotence; don't discard it because you don't understand it. I mean honestly, I can't fathom the whole alpha and omega, beginning and end thing anymore than anyone else. Probably because of my evolution, Boris. That doesn't mean I don't think it's possible.

And finally, I whole-heartedly agree with you regarding your comments about superiority in the Christian dogma. It makes me sad and angry. It ruins God's word and diminishes faith, and blinds people. People have more disdain for Christianity because of this notion than any other religion in the world.

Yeah, shit.. the ex-sunday school teacher
came out but for a moment to refer you to
the book of Job LMAO... be sure to read it

I really do not care if I reincarnate 100
times (which for me that is probably
underestimating it LMAO) or not... well,
why should there be judgement of any kind??
Have you ever had someone watch your fuc*ing
every move????? You are bloody well scared
too death if you do the wrong thing?????
F that shit.. I mean really..who could function this way????????????? You know
probably 16.. Flash turned to satanism for
awhile... there was a reason for it ...
old Anton had really put another light to
the satanic bible..and its not what you think
either.. ok, no.. I do not pray to satan any
more, ok????? damn... wine/beer buzz LMAO..
I haven't told that story ever..LMAO..well
except to those who were involved in it
with me LMAO...

I was raised in my youth as a Lutheran..
and although it is a branch off of catholic
religion.. they are not into judgement at
when my adulthood years.. the f'n people
that got me to their church was A/G..LMAO..
the f'n holy roller mother f'n church LMAO..

Whoa!!!! hold the phone.. I in no way at
ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL think that it is just
me you care about.. hell its written all
over the board when you talk to others...
and this "narly" (LOL..surfer dude) shit
that happened to me may be different from
some..but so what???? that is all it is..
just different..doesn't mean it is any
worse or less... people adapt you know LMAO..
I might add.... some major shit has happend
since I have spoke with you last LMAO..
but thta is neither here nor there..
Like I have stated before, I am taking a
POSITIVE look at all of this... you may think
that is bad..but shit, Lori, looking at the
negative stops growth, don't you think????
weak warriors don't win the battle, ya know!!
Flash is always ok!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On a very serious note.. you have NOOOO
idea what it means taht someone believes
me... thanks ...

I can take anything you dish out..question is
can you?????????? LMAO

[This message has been edited by Flash (edited May 27, 1999).]
wayyyyyyyyy to goooooooooooooo *S*
First, you must know.. doesn't matter who
wrote the bible..what it all comes down
to is ...........drum roll........ MAN
that wrote it.. yeah, it is SUPPOSE to
be the inspired word of god... give me a

I thought my purple elephant made good
sense, ya know? Anyone can make themselves
believe anything they want to..what you
focus on MOST you become like.

You would make one heck of a good person
to party with..deep thought and all...


You completely missed my point about those 'spiritual laws'. Here's the basic break-down:

* We are not different from animals
* We are social (herd) animals. Hermits among us are considered abnormal (anti-social).
* There are many other species which obey the same 'laws'. Those species include both primates and other mammals, like dogs for example.
* I'm not talking about joining a cult to feel like you belong. I'm talking about being nice to others, helping and sharing, engaging in social activities, etc. etc.
* If those are not the 'spiritual laws' that you are talking about, then I'd ask you to be more specific to clarify things.
* But if you're going to claim that Christianity encompasses those spiritual laws, I'd ask you to think again in view of the countless populations and civilizations that did just fine without Jesus.

So I suppose you haven't yet managed to make a dent in my point concerning your 'evidence' for God.

But here's something else to consider. Humility and admittance of primitive knowledge seems to consistently be your position when it comes to explaining God. Well, pardon me, but such statements not only do not make a valid point, but don't move the debate forward (although they might move it backward -- I'm not sure about that one).

Currently, to me you come across as follows:
(??) You believe in God because you feel like it.
(??) You are unable to offer a rigorous explanation for any aspect of your God theories, because they are based on the Bible.
(!!) And we all know the Bible is sheer metaphor and hyperbole, and entirely open to interpretation; just about the only unequivocal message coming out of it is that Jesus is Lord.
(??) Therefore, you believe in Jesus (the 'therefore' is strained, since there's really no coherence here.)
(??) Further, as soon as you state that the Bible is open to interpretation, you advance your own interpretation -- in terms of Armageddon, aliens, angels, and Satan.
(??) As ridiculous as your interpretation is, you believe in it so strongly that you'll position its validity above that of any rational conclusion based on the current empirical corpus of knowledge.
(!!) You would rather say that scientifically we know nothing (which is not true), than admit that we know absolutely nothing spiritually.

Old men over ages and ages have been pushing the Bible as The Truth -- and you take their word for it, only because the moral rules promoted in the Bible make sense.
(??) But instead of just buying into the moral rules (which would make sense), you buy into the whole associated package, simply because it's bundled together with those rules -- this makes absolutely no sense.
(?!) Then, you assume that thousands of years ago (Old Testament is far older than 2000 years), God passed down knowledge of the modern age to people who couldn't make heads and tails of it, and totally screwed up the 'message'.
(?!) He did particularly that, rather than giving this knowledge later on to people who were a bit more sophisticated and who could have transcribed it more accurately.
(!!) However, you can't be sure that knowledge represents modern age, as it could just as well, in its garbled state, refer to an epoch 2000 years from today. Or perhaps it refers to something that has already happened a long time ago. But, you choose to believe the 'knowledge' you see in the Bible is targeted at today.

You skillfully avoid all of the patent contradictions and fallasies that surface whenever the Bible concerns itself with natural phenomena/history, dismissing that garbage as an incorrectly literalist reading of an obviously metaphorical text.
(?!) However, you are quick to cite 'chariots of fire', 'nephilim' and other vague references in your support, as being selective grains of truth embedded in so much pedagogical bullshit.

I've never seen a good response to the criticism that practically the entire Bible was written by men who claimed to commune with God; Jesus himself had very little to do with creation of the book (assuming Jesus was God) -- so why trust their word any more than the word of Hitler?

In support of your horror scenarios involving aliens, you supply the numerous reports of abductions and such. This makes me wonder: were you in Salem a little while ago, would you help hanging people because a few children claim that those people appeared to them as spirits and did evil things?

Finally, you are big on pointing out that all the BAD things were done BY US, IT'S OUR OWN FAULT, etc, etc. You never seem to admit to the possibility that, correspondingly, all the good things are done by US as well, TO OUR CREDIT. Somehow, it's clear to you that all the bad things are ours, and all (or at least some) of the good things are God's. I bow deeply to your powers of induction.

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited May 28, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited May 28, 1999).]
Wow, what a slam. I see that you've got your mind all made up, huh Boris? And silly me, I thought that's what you were accusing me of? I don't have the time right now to address all of your questions, and provide you with my proof. Though it does exist, and I will make time soon. You are assuming an awful lot about me. You are being the equivalent of a religious racist. You are trying to stick me in a category, along with all of the hair spray and mascara freaks on TBN. I'm not that person. Just because I don't have the time to write a book that details all of my beliefs and considerations and evidence on this forum, doesn't mean I've been spoon-fed. You are discounting my intelligence, which makes me laugh. I will though say that we are influenced by the good and the bad, and God created both. The concept is inherent in the creation of spiritual laws. And excuse me, but I NEVER avoid contradictions and questions. I admit to not understanding everything. Does that bother you? It doesn't bother me. Why are you out here exactly? To learn something new, or to condemn others for not knowing everything, you know, like you do? At least I'm trying. Just because you don't like my answers, doesn't mean I'm skirting questions, either. I'm offerring up opinions and very well-educated guesses. I thought that's what forums were for?

TGIF! I was thinking that maybe you've been overly exposed to the concept of judgement somehow. It's not a bad thing, or a thing to be feared necessarily. From what I've read about near death experiences, judgement is a big deal, but a learning experience. There's certainly nothing wrong with learning the truth. It's an understanding by realization of the true meaning of your life. You've read that too right? That's some heavy shit, considering the average life span, and the ripple effect. You will feel the pain and joy that you've inflicted on others, and see the ultimate consequences of that. That's astounding! And you know, I've done plenty of things in my life that I'm not necessarily proud of, and probably spent the majority of my time here concentrating on making a buck, and spending it on my own entertainment. Man, I had Grandma working OT praying for my ass, and it's a good thing she did too. Seriously, I took statistics in college, and I really shouldn't be alive today. But, I also know that I'm a good-hearted person. Most of the time I've endangered myself more than others. And for every Tom, Dick, and Harry that I've done on a whim, well, I really just didn't want to hurt their little feelings. The only reason I haven't been raped is because I've never said no (maybe a few times). LMAO! I don't get where you got the idea that anyone's supposed to be perfect. All you can do is try, and try to honestly look at the consequences. I mean, this is golden rule kind of stuff. I still chain smoke, drink beer, occasionally toke a few, cuss like a sailor, and yell at my husband when he pisses me off. But I'm also a good daughter, and I love my husband and have gone through many frustrations making my marriage work, and I'm a great employee, not because I love my job, but because I don't want to let my co-workers down. I'm nice to people. I give a shit. I have seven cats in my house right now because I couldn't stand seeing a pregnant mommy out in the cold this past winter. Need a cat? Anyway (and I'm not on muscle relaxers), I'm looking forward to it. It is what we all are seeking each day of our lives, if we're smart, and that is the truth. There is no punishment that I'm aware of. The only punishment that exists is one that you create by separating yourself from God by not believing in Him. After I read those near death sites, I thought that it may be as simple as, if you believe you'll "see the light", then you will, if you don't, then you won't. It seems that what you believe will happen when you die has a lot to do with what actually happens. Maybe the more you figure out whats really important in life, the greater your possibilities afterwards.

What reason did you have for delving in Satanism? Whatever it was, I go back to the notion of "judgement overkill", "religion rejection", and animosity. Sounds like you've been really involved (grown up in) a church. Had it shoved down your throat, maybe? I never really got much out of church myself. I was kind of lucky that my parents didn't make me go when I was younger. I went with Grandma sometimes just to make her happy. Grandma's a holy roller, now. She can speak in "tongues". Always kind of freaked me out. When I was real little, she used to take me to a Baptist church. They had a cool rock band, and big hair, and the congregation would cry, and scream, and run down the aisles jumping and waving their hands in the air. that really necessary? Almost as bad as the snake charmers down there in KY. I really have no appreciation for charisma when it comes to religion, or rituals, or denominationalism for that matter. I have to figure things out for myself, like you.

What major shit has happened? It's here, it's there. E-mail me if you want to

And yes, I see your point about the negativity. I mean really, Y2K, aliens are demons, cataclysmic earth changes, the antichrist? EEK. Let's'm sure I can find a silver lining in there somewhere! LOL! I'll try to be a little more uplifting in the future.

What do you mean you don't understand that I believe you. You asked me if I believed everything I read, and I said no, I don't. I'm an objective, sound minded, analytical type, who can spot a phony a mile away. You post things out here all the time, and I believe what you say. You're no phony.

Ok, my fingers are cramping. I'm gonna have a beer. Cheers!

Where did you get this silly notion about respecting others' opinions? I'm trying to carry on a debate here. When you debate, you don't *respect* others' opinions, you CHALLENGE them!! You don't learn from others by agreeing/disagreeing; you learn by confronting them, to see who has a stronger position in the end, and where each other's weakensses lie!!!

And yes, I've got my mind made up, no less than you or anybody else. I'll be the first to state that my position derives from a great number of assumptions, all of which I believe are true. Disprove any one of those assumptions, and I'll have to throw away all of my beliefs, start from scratch and rethink everything. And don't even try to suggest that I wouldn't do it.

Now, I've challenged a whole bunch of points you made in your statements over time. So far, all I'm getting is "play fair" and "I'll get back to you on that". Call me a racist all you want, but don't think I'll back down because of your mudslinging.

And frankly, Lori, I'm tired of your 'open-mindedness'. Why don't you start taking some stands every now and then? I mean, after all, that's what the forums are for!
HI!!!! For is almost fuc*ing
3:00am..I am drunker than will probably have to go back and read your
post again...and probably edit mine!! LOL
I must say..your post is the looooooongest
one I have read yet LMAO.. I will have to
say.. you are one of the most honest people
I have met..that doesn' F around... I like
To start..what I have learned from judgement
is...the wages of sin are DEATH... no sin
is any different in teh eyes of
you can F'n kill ... or tell a white lie..
its all the same... I just do not agree with
certain things the bible calls sin... so then.. I guess being a christian is out of
the question... which goes to this perfection thing..

I appreciate you sharing your story about
some of your past (am being sincere..yes I
am too *S*) ... I guess that is why I like
you.. you are real, man. Also, sounds like
you are truly lucky that you are not dead..
btw.. I, and I know others here feel the same, am glad you are not.

The satanism thing is a long ass story...
flash was a rebel too LMAO... has to do
with being sent off..being tested as a lab
rat... MAJOR HATE toward my therapist there..
the old f'n dick head.. and wanting him to
suffer...on of the other patients tehre
introduced me to satanism as a usful to to
get to my therapist... ohhhhhhhhh noooooooo
flash is insane???????? LMAO...

You know... you talking about your grandmother taking you to a baptist church
reminded me of something...ready for this..
LMAO.. my grandfather, who now has gone to
the great beyond..died when I was in first
grade :( ... was a baptist minister..LMAO..
However, they did not do the holy roller
shit..*S* He did not condemn people at all..
he was the greatest man I have ever met.

ummmm..the major shit will be e-mailed at
a later date..noooo way I can do it now..
hey, its late and am polluted BT!!! LMAO.. you know how many times I had to
read ..its here..its there..before I knew what the heck you were talking about??
Too many to count..had to look back to see
what the hell I wrote..LMAO..

LMAO..the silver lining is there
just have to look for it..LMAO

The not understanding that you believe me
part..well how many people do you think I
could walk up to..tell me story..and them
believe me, huh???
BTW... I know you are not a phony either...
you certainly stand by what you believe in
big matter how many people shoot you
down.. I admire that.