Now in the news; 14 Americans died in choppers crash in Afghanistan . What a waste of lives and a waste of money !. While G.W. Bush is making tons of money giving speeches to the morons of the world, Americans are dying for his ill conceived policies of tyranny, imperialism and colonialism pushed and instigated by the neo cons .
Should the U.S. troops leave afghanistan ?.
- Thread starter mike47
- Start date
- Status
It's now Obama's war. He said it's a war of necessity, by his own count, and he perpetuated the war himself.
He should listen to the commanders that are actually in Afghanistan... especially McChrystal, whom he appointed himself. I think the stalling on Obama's part is due to other countries' TYPICAL reliance that the world's cop will toll all the costs by himself -- i.e. that American boys n girls will do all the hard work of turning Afghanistan into something other than a backwards snakepit that breeds terrorism and misery -- without the help of the gentle Europeans who long so much to be friendly with the government in Iran and other "peace lovers" to get that cheap oil. How did Van Jones put it, "like a crackhead licking the crackpipe"? Or like Leo DiCaprio sucking dick and selling his ass in the washroom in Basketball Diaries to get enough money to buy those drugs he loves so much.
But otherwise, I have a feeling that Obama is OK with sending reinforcements. As long as others contribute too. Americans are not the only ones whose interest it is to see Afghanistan that is not that miserable snake pit of backwards AK/Koran wielding heroin exporters (or heroin wielding AK/Koran exporters) ... and that includes Iran, whose youth are probably the biggest victims of Afghani heroin.
Funny, So WW2 was Trumann's war? Its a war of necessity because if we leave it we are fucked, and if we don't leave it we are still fucked but at least in only one orifice. If say Bush had not gone to war with afghanistan or had at the least focused on Afghanistan maybe things would be a lot better now for the USA, at least we would not had added 3 trillion to our debt!
maybe but to what social and economic advantage to the Afgahn people ? is the question
the taliban can and does conquer by brutal rule though
As far as US concern for feminism around the globe, no such concern was evident prior to 9-11 and furthermore feminism imposed from the outside by force is unlikely to be successful. I am sorry that women will be under men's thumbs if the Taliban wins. Women are not all that liberated under the semi-existent Karzai government so they won't lose that much. At least if the Taliban wins women won't be raped as much by anybody other than their husbands.[/QUOTE]
unacceptable , the rape of women , period
walk a mile in a women's shoes , then what would you think ?
Yes indeed the Taliban are Afghans and they are fighting for their country .
Some Afghans do not like the Taliban like the Northern Alliance and some Afghans support the Taliban with their money and their own lives too .
In politics there is no such thing as a 100% support for any party .
The Taliban is an Afghan party that follows the Muslim Sharia laws in their daily lives in all their nation .
if what you say is true , and I mean objectively true , then why fight against the collation forces ?
The Taliban would make Afghanistan "better" if they could. There is probably no force in Afghanistan that cares more deeply for Afghanistan or at least for the Pashtun Afghanis than the Taliban do. The problem with the Taliban is not their sincerity. The problem with the Taliaban is that we don't find their judgment respectable.
The Taliban's Idea of "eduction" and "social progress" is at odds with liberal western ideas about what "education" and "social progress" means. We can agree with the Taliban that criminality should be stopped and the poverty should be ended but after that our ideas about what is "good" diverge.
The Taliban would build schools if they had money and peace but you would not respect their schools and girls would not be invited to school.
MTV sex object girls or Burqa covered married young women? Which is way of life produces more health and happiness for women and which pleases God more if God exists and gives a damn. If God existed and cared what we did what would be more important than pleasing God?
Peace and law and order would be good if the could be achieved which is not likely regardless what happens to the Taliban, the Americans or the other forces in Afghanistan. The USA giving the Taliban money to hunt and kill Al Qaeda would be the Afghan equivalent of what the USA did that sort of worked in Iraq.
That is true. The Taliban is like that but so are the Taliban's afghan rivals in the quest for power and the USA also effectively behaves the same way when exercising power in third world nations. Dostum, head of the Uzbek Afghans seems to have no regard for brutality but I think the US government and the Taliban both have a track record of making some effort to avoid brutality that is unnecessary to accomplish the goals their organizations believe should be accomplished.
The goals that the US government and the Taliban think justify some collateral damage and repression may not meet my standards but I too might justify collateral damage and brutality if the goal was important enough.
Women should never be raped or mistreated or disrespected period.
I like and care about women and respect women and consider myself a male feminist but feminism can not be imposed by force. Men's sense of justice and their hearts have to be appealed to particularly in places were law and tradition don't back up feminism.
I think the world will embrace feminism wherever war, chaos, and poverty can be reduced enough to create space for contemplation and striving for Maslow's higher needs. The best thing the liberal West can do if we want religious conservatives to liberate their women is to give them space and lead by example rather than by force or ridicule. To lead by example well the west needs to figure out what to do about the commercialization of women's sexual attractiveness to men. We in the west still look like we are going throw the chaos of mass cultural sexual adolescence while the Afghans seem even more immature. We need to make our families structures and sexuality really work well for us before we start lecturing other people. We clearly have not perfected modern social structures yet. The Afghan way has been sort of working for them for 1000 years; why should they trust that our relatively untested recently adopted way of social life is better?
Possibly only Iran, which has been cut out of the profits - there is no clear picture, based on behavior, of whether a reduction in the heroin crop is really in the interests of the major players involved in "American" policy.otheadp said:
The recent resurgence in poppy cultivation, which was in some areas encouraged by US funded irrigation improvements and other foreign aid (supposedly in error or by accident) did coincide with the cash flow problems on Wall Street and elsewhere - and the Europeans, at least, have traced some of the emergency infusion that was later covered by TARP and Federal Reserve handouts to mysterious piles of cash of unknown origin in offshore accounts. Which may account for the reticence of the banking honchos to label exactly where the public monies went in the end no?
Matthew Hoh
Matthew Hoh's Resignation Letter speaks volumes about why the war in Afghanistan must end ASAP, and without victory parades.
Now in our deadliest (for USAmericans, that is) month in Afghanistan, I hope that we will soon arrive at a clear tipping-point in collective self-consciousness in the USA- complete admission that we're not behaving as the nation that we pretend to be. As part of this change, we'll remember the myriad people in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere who have suffered and died needlessly during our recent national rampages.
In some of the most recent war coverage, "9 Dead" appeared in the title, although one victim was Afghan. Most said 8, because that was the number of GIs. After waking up from this long nightmare we're going to value the lives of our own, and also those of "collateral" casualties- more than our missing-in-action cause. After we wake up, a lot fewer people are going to be killed in the act of pretending to be heros, or falling mostly unnoticed in the hundreds of thousands of fatal bit-parts that our self-absorbed farce has consumed.
Matthew Hoh said:
Matthew Hoh's Resignation Letter speaks volumes about why the war in Afghanistan must end ASAP, and without victory parades.
Now in our deadliest (for USAmericans, that is) month in Afghanistan, I hope that we will soon arrive at a clear tipping-point in collective self-consciousness in the USA- complete admission that we're not behaving as the nation that we pretend to be. As part of this change, we'll remember the myriad people in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere who have suffered and died needlessly during our recent national rampages.
In some of the most recent war coverage, "9 Dead" appeared in the title, although one victim was Afghan. Most said 8, because that was the number of GIs. After waking up from this long nightmare we're going to value the lives of our own, and also those of "collateral" casualties- more than our missing-in-action cause. After we wake up, a lot fewer people are going to be killed in the act of pretending to be heros, or falling mostly unnoticed in the hundreds of thousands of fatal bit-parts that our self-absorbed farce has consumed.
Last edited:
Denise Leary summed it up in the Asshole song "Nuclear Fucking Weapons".
The coalition forces are occupiers and in all the world people hate and fight occupiers .
The only ones who are suppressing the Afghan people are the occupying coalition forces under the US command . Let us not be stupid or naive : if the US did not attack Afghanistan the coalition forces would have never attacked this sovereign nation . The same goes for Iraq .
It's already assumed that there will be American casualties, let's not act surprised and think it changes anything.
OK. In a nutshell, again, why are American kids dying in these wars?
To fight against Jihad.
Why is this fight limited to AfPak/Iraq, there are Jihadists everywhere?
They are mostly there.
- Status