sep 11, 2001 vs. jan 6, 2021
- Thread starter mathman
- Start date
Because half the country supported the Jan 6th insurrection, and have been working their very hardest to cover it up.
because the right wing in the us loves domestic terrorists if they are political allies. lets not beat around the bush the republican party really isn't that far off from being a legit terrorist orginization.
The loudest and most violent 9/11 reactionaries, the ones in a dizzy panic, the crazies that got us invading Iraq - were the supporters and perpetrators of Jan 6.
It's not too surprising if their "reaction" is a bit different - which it will be, regardless of what comes out at trial etc;
seems unlikely that anybody will be murdered by a vigilante patriot for wearing a cowboy hat or a trucker's cap, for example.
Bells
Staff member
Mod Note
Because you seem to be going around and posting simply to flame and troll threads.
You are not posting anything of value.
Suffice to say, you aren't the first and you won't be the last. What flags you is that you are just so bad at it that it's hard to tell if it is an issue of intelligence or you are simply putting on an act to appear this way.
Either way, if you keep this up, I can assure you that you will not last long.
And your flaming and trolling is adding what, exactly?
Because you seem to be going around and posting simply to flame and troll threads.
You are not posting anything of value.
Suffice to say, you aren't the first and you won't be the last. What flags you is that you are just so bad at it that it's hard to tell if it is an issue of intelligence or you are simply putting on an act to appear this way.
Either way, if you keep this up, I can assure you that you will not last long.
There is indeed a consistent problem here. All the "stoopid" arguments you post here have one thing in common, and it's not the many people you argue with.
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if the arguments are so stupid and retarded it should be easy for you to show where the analysis is wrong which i note you haven't.
Benson
Registered Senior Member
Your forum is dying. If you consider people as trolls, it's just an indication you object to views different to yours. Nothing more, nothing less.
I assume you're moving the thread to the humour section
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Benson
Registered Senior Member
Everytime I post, you're one of three that troll after me.
So either place me on ignore, or just ignore my posts. You find my posts stoopid, I find yours worse.
I count eight or so.
So yes, either the problem is yours or everyone else's. One or the other.
This is a science forum. If science is going to really annoy you, perhaps find a forum you are happier on. But if you do post about topics in science, expect some replies - even if you dislike what they say.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
The implication of your logic is that the forum would be revived if we encouraged the participation of members whose contributions are in the form of " this stupid thread appeared, followed by three retarded posts."
Is that your assertion?
No, it's actually less. A lot less.
"Different views" is what adults do. "stupid" and "retarded" is the purview of children and trolls. Which are you?
These are rhetorical questions. It doesn't matter which one you are.
:ignore:
No. Perhaps you should have read our site posting guidelines, which, among other things, define the term "troll" in a convenient way.
I'm moving you to the humour section.
Goodbye.
Moderator note: Benson has been permanently banned from sciforums.
I have been observing his contributions to the forum for some time now, and this guy adds no value to our forum. He is only here to troll. He insults our members and tries to sow dissent. He constantly tells us how much he disapproves of our forum. Since he is obviously too good for us, I'm very happy to show him to the door. He can leave for greener pastures.
I have been observing his contributions to the forum for some time now, and this guy adds no value to our forum. He is only here to troll. He insults our members and tries to sow dissent. He constantly tells us how much he disapproves of our forum. Since he is obviously too good for us, I'm very happy to show him to the door. He can leave for greener pastures.
With regard to domestic terrorism, there is at least the memorial and remembrance observance of the OK City Bombing. But at a widespread level, perhaps April 19 could occasionally go by for many without much notice, if the news media didn't give whatever degree of historical attention to it.
In terms of national scope, a prominent remembrance day or memorial for a negative event (attack) seems to usually require thousands or hundreds of casualties (another example: Pearl Harbor Day).
Excluding the suicides in later weeks and months, the death toll of Jan-6 was five. With only one dying from gunshot (a rioter), and the rest from health complications triggered by the activity. [see footnote]
One might shift focus to injuries and heroics instead. A potential complication there have been outcries that the police were virtually accomplices themselves, or rather their laxity facilitated the mob running amok. 15 injuries required hospitalization, all released by 5 days later.
Still, surely another aspect of the incident be could be resourcefully portrayed as tragic or foreboding -- like honor the need for wariness or something. Be vigilant for unwashed, barbarian hordes descending upon an institution, etc.
But without an egregious body count to mourn over, the ceremonies could eventually seem unfulfilling to spectators. And over time that could prod receiving "valiant frustration" suggestions from unexpected sources to "better" justify the observances. To wit: https://www.rollcall.com/2021/05/27/capitol-ink-january-6-memorial-commission/
- - - footnote - - -
Some rioters and 138 police officers (73 Capitol Police and 65 Metropolitan Police) were injured, of whom 15 were hospitalized, some with severe injuries. All had been released from the hospital by January 11.
DEATHS (directly associated with that day, excluding later suicides):
Ashli Elizabeth Babbitt, a 35-year-old Air Force veteran, was fatally shot in the shoulder by a Capitol Police officer while attempting to climb through a shattered window in a barricaded door. This was soon ruled a justified homicide.
Brian Sicknick, a 42-year-old responding Capitol Police officer, was pepper-sprayed during the riot, and had two thromboembolic strokes the next day, after which he was placed on life support, and soon died. The D.C. chief medical examiner found he died from a stroke, classifying his death as natural, and commenting that "all that transpired played a role in his condition".
Rosanne Boyland, 34, died of an amphetamine overdose during the riot, ruled accidental by the D.C. medical examiner's office.
Kevin Greeson, 55, and Benjamin Philips, 50, died naturally from coronary heart disease and hypertensive heart disease.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_attack
Measuring significance byy casualties is (to me) off the mark. Oklahoma City was a one (or owo) man operation with little political implications. Jan 6 was an attempt to overthrow the government - instigated by (then) president Trump - a more serious danger than either Sep 11 or OK.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Again. Sep 11 isn't signified because of danger. It's signified because of the lives lost.
You are trying to equate apples with oranges, just like Bush tried to do in the days following Sept 11.
Even if serving the purpose of a diving board leap to different context, perhaps best to not to have a 9/11 versus 1/6 title, as well as referencing 9/11 in the opening sentence.
As this kind of injects a lingering interpretation along the line of "X versus Y" in terms of what makes a memorable terrorist incident.
Well, these days even circus clowns have become terrifying to many people, so it's not surprising that coulrophobia has extended to the whole range of bungling buffoons and dolts.
Even a ludicrously inept (i.e., failed) "coup" cherry-topped by a headcase wearing horns apparently conjures fears that there must surely be a group behind the scenes that actually knows what they are doing. Cabalist masterminds that will eventually succeed in controlling imbecilic myrmidons to puppet precision.
"Keystone cops" is not quite the right comparison, since they're at the other end: authority, establishment. But there's something about the incompetency and slapstick attributes that might be analogous.
One of the more recent updates of what these genius guerrilla rebels have been plotting...
Bible-waving QAnon congresswoman calls for Jesus to ‘install’ ‘righteous men and women of God’ to run government
https://www.thenewcivilrightsmoveme...teous-men-and-women-of-god-to-run-government/
“We cannot take another 18 months, we cannot take another three years of this poor, failed leadership,” she continued. “We are sons and daughters of revolutionaries. They went to battle for a lot less. They took a stand for a lot less. And it’s time we get involved. I need you involved in every local level. I need you speaking up. I need the world to hear your voice. You know the word of God, and you know that there is power in your words, that the world was framed by words. You have the Lord God Almighty on your side. I need you to use your voice and speak.”
Speaking of "revolutionaries" -- the intellectual lineage descended from the French one, not the one Lauren Boebert was potentially channeling via trance above...
Many "revolutionary" orientations wallow in some form of exploitive altruism to attract recruits, and dispense pretentious, opportunistic morality plays as justification. Whether it's those old school secular intellectuals or the hodgepodge of random craziness that is QAnon (granting that they have any single agenda or monomaniacal purpose). The former has actually succeeded in takeovers of countries in the past, with various sphincters inheriting the dystopian aftermath -- but it remains to be seen that loosely organized and rambling nutjobs (QAnon) can accomplish the same.
(1970) Zabriskie Point: at the 2:45 mark
Nothing new under the sun. From a neutral(?) European perspective, Antonioni was fascinated by the Jacobin to Marxist to New Left revolutionary climate that was supposedly menacing the American establishment of that era (over 50 years ago). [cultural hegemony]
But merely as an opening prop. Later he pretty much rambled off into the usual, stereotypical attributes of counterculture films of that time. Nice photography, though. (And a nice touch to have "Karl" misspelled by the duty officer present when Mark Frechette's character was arrested.)
Commune-cult member Frechette seemed a tad irritated during an interview on The Dick Cavett Show that Antonioni had wandered some from the propaganda message, but the ending where Daria's imagination goes wild with blowing up the evil, lavish, capitalist magnate home in the desert with multi-angle repeats surely compensated for any negligence.
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Depends on the views - starting with the question of whether they have any.
More likely, it's an indication that they have seen those people behave in a familiar and objectionable way. Bullshit is not the same as lying, after all - and the difference pivots on the relationships between the "views", the behaviors of those expressing them, and the relevant physical reality as repeatedly observed.
It's not the "views", if any, that decent people object to: it's the behavior. Jan 6 was an assault on the US Federal Government at its weakest point (liberal democracies depend on good faith commitments mediated by - who else? - media), an attempted coup that became ludicrous only when it failed (a common fate of attempted coups - and often a temporary one). The "views" of its perpetrators are an incoherent dumpsterload of ever-changing memes and fads - the behaviors sum to a focused, coordinated assault on the governance of American society.
Unnecessary.
More to the point: Wrong direction - the comfort of paranoid delusion making sense of stochastic event and synergistic fuckup is not this generation of lefties' crib bedding.
The libertarian left in the US accepts - assumes, even - that fascists are fuckups at governance. We don't assume, for example, that the Iraq War was launched by people who knew what they were doing over the long term or in a larger sense. We do insist that the plotting and scheming and attempted masterminding behind that horrorshow of corruption and slaughter and State terrorism be recognized, its perps identified as a matter of historical record - the necessary information of democratic liberal governance.
The rightwing authoritarian monsters of the post-Korean War US political landscape are not farseeing and inhumanly capable masterminds. They are not products of dream and fantasy. They have names, vetted histories and interests and conflicts of same. They are observed, not hypothesized. They are not shadowy Elders of Zion, functionaries in some "deep State", but Kochs and Bannons and Dowds and Luntzes and McConnells and Breitbarts and O'Keefes and Sykes and Limbaughs and so forth and so on.
In contrast to the projections and introspectively derived stereotypifications of what we can now conveniently label the Republican (the co-opted Party, by circumstance, in our generation) media wing, this generation's libertarian leftwing conventional wisdom does not build from paranoia or necessarily presume omniscient evil-plotters, it needs no supernaturally capable puppetry to explain the successful media manipulations of the authoritarian Right.
The conventional wisdom of the Left these days leans into a different error, a more liberal "mis-underestimation": it tends to overestimate the role of innocence in stupidity, of obliviousness and incompetence in the short-sighted schemings of the greedy and power obsessed, of unguided emergent coordination in the effects of money thrown around at ideologically chaotic whim.
The voting base of the American fascist movement, the electoral foundation of the Republican Party, is not stupid (dull, repetitive, willfully blind, etc) by accident - as Dr Johnson observed of their kind, centuries back, to be quoted in Garret Keizer's essay for Harper's Magazine this past month: it's not found in nature.
It's made, not born.
The Jan 6th criminals are still being arrested (684 so far) tried, convicted and imprisoned. 68 are currently in prison. 70 have pled guilty; 12 of those pled guilty to felonies. The rest are awaiting trial.
And many are changing their tunes. One criminal had this to say from jail: "January 6th was a disgrace to our nation that left a scar Trump is ultimately responsible for, but we are strong and will heal from it. While many praise Trump I loathe him."
They are also frantically looking for ways to avoid jail time, including renouncing Trump and his attempts to overthrow a US election. Another way they are cooperating is by naming names - specifically, the men and women from the government they met with to plan the insurrection. So far that list includes:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene
Rep. Paul Gosar
Rep. Lauren Boebert
Rep. Mo Brooks of Alabama
Rep. Madison Cawthorn
Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona
Rep. Louie Gohmert
The GOP has long claimed to be the law and order party. We will see if they have a change of heart and decide that this time, crime is OK.
And many are changing their tunes. One criminal had this to say from jail: "January 6th was a disgrace to our nation that left a scar Trump is ultimately responsible for, but we are strong and will heal from it. While many praise Trump I loathe him."
They are also frantically looking for ways to avoid jail time, including renouncing Trump and his attempts to overthrow a US election. Another way they are cooperating is by naming names - specifically, the men and women from the government they met with to plan the insurrection. So far that list includes:
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene
Rep. Paul Gosar
Rep. Lauren Boebert
Rep. Mo Brooks of Alabama
Rep. Madison Cawthorn
Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona
Rep. Louie Gohmert
The GOP has long claimed to be the law and order party. We will see if they have a change of heart and decide that this time, crime is OK.