Scientists hear a mystery roar coming from deep space

[nietzschefan]

gluon,

No, 'they' did not state the 'source' was 7 billion years old, that was your speculation. The source of the peak in the radio wavelength is unknown, all they did was subtract estimated foreground contributions and were left with too strong a signal at that particular wavelength. Since the signal seems to be diffuse and not associated with known nearby sources, it is assumed to arise from the early universe, when the universe was less than half its present age. That doesn't mean the signal is 7 billion years old, it means that the signal, if real and not an error, is at least 7 billion years old, meaning it likely comes from the early universe when galaxies were first forming. Early in their formation, galaxies seem to be much more active than later in their evolution when they are more mature. Quasars and other AGNs were common in the early universe, and if the Big Bang is true, our universe was a much smaller place early in its existence. The signal detected was an excessive hiss of white noise at around the 3 GHz wavelength, not an explosion or something that happened 7 billion years ago.

From what I understood the noise comes from the "outside" fringes of space, the other direction of where they were trying to get information from the direction of the "big bang" (perhaps just the super-primordial-"quasar" which formed most the the matter in our "known" space).

Outside the known universe. "Big Bang" direction is IN (indeed the center) of the known universe.

 

[swivel]

Care to explain ?

An infinite length of time could not have transpired prior to THIS moment. Which means that there had to be a period of no time, or stasis, in the past before which nothing else happened. A perfect void is the only way to reconcile the paradox. Therefore ex nihilo becomes the only logical explanation for the origin of all things.

 

[Enmos]

An infinite length of time could not have transpired prior to THIS moment.

Why not ?

 

[Trippy]

How is it. Dark matter doesn't interact with the electromagnetic fluctuations.

So be it, but there is a flaw in this as well.

At least 70% of all matter in the universe takes the form of a dark energy. Then 25% of the lions share is made of dark matter. The remaining percentages make up plasma and then the smallest, baryonic matter. So how could there be on a supergalactic scale be enough baryonic matter to create more sound than all of the emissions contained within spacetime?

It's wrong because some of the WIMP theories of dark matter predict that it can interact with itself and decay.

The term is WEAKLY interacting, not non interacting.

And for the record?

plasma is Baryonic matter - it's baryonic matter missing electrons.

 

[swivel]

Why not ?

Because you can't fulfill an infinite sequence.

My usual thought experiment is this:

God will create the universe after he drinks an infinite number of cups of coffee. How long will it be before God creates the universe?

The answer, whether it is coffee or femto-seconds is: Never.

 

[Cyperium]

Because you can't fulfill an infinite sequence.

My usual thought experiment is this:

God will create the universe after he drinks an infinite number of cups of coffee. How long will it be before God creates the universe?

The answer, whether it is coffee or femto-seconds is: Never.

Wow, that shows great imagination.

Though if God chooses any time, then it would be created anyway.

 

[Enmos]

Because you can't fulfill an infinite sequence.

My usual thought experiment is this:

God will create the universe after he drinks an infinite number of cups of coffee. How long will it be before God creates the universe?

The answer, whether it is coffee or femto-seconds is: Never.

Ah.. but you see, you are assuming the infinite amount of time before now had a beginning.
As long as infinity + 1 is valid an infinite amount of time could have gone by before this moment.

 

[swivel]

Ah.. but you see, you are assuming the infinite amount of time before now had a beginning.
As long as infinity + 1 is valid an infinite amount of time could have gone by before this moment.

No I'm not. If it had a beginning there would be no problem.

If you couldn't see it with the coffee... try this:

Starting from this moment in time, start traveling back into the past, one second at a time, until you get to the very beginning.

That's right, you can't get there. In fact, there are an infinite number of "seconds" that you can not reach and never will. Now imagine that we started at one of these "impossible to reach" moments and started traveling forward. We would just as quickly discover that we will never reach "now" going in that direction.

The only way out of this paradox is to tell me that if we started traveling into the past we would ever reach every single moment back there. Since we would both agree that this is impossible (there is always an n+1 moment out of reach), then we can say the same is true in both directions.


Cyperium, I appreciate your input but you do not seem to understand what "time" is.

 

[Enmos]

No I'm not. If it had a beginning there would be no problem.

If you couldn't see it with the coffee... try this:

Starting from this moment in time, start traveling back into the past, one second at a time, until you get to the very beginning.

That's right, you can't get there.

Yes you can, an infinite amount of seconds later.

In fact, there are an infinite number of "seconds" that you can not reach and never will. Now imagine that we started at one of these "impossible to reach" moments and started traveling forward. We would just as quickly discover that we will never reach "now" going in that direction.

See above.

The only way out of this paradox is to tell me that if we started traveling into the past we would ever reach every single moment back there. Since we would both agree that this is impossible (there is always an n+1 moment out of reach), then we can say the same is true in both directions.

I don't think this is how it works.
It doesn't matter that it took time an infinite amount of seconds to get to this moment, because it's been busy for infinity to get to it.
By the way, I can prove that time has always been Seriously though.

 

[swivel]

Yes you can, an infinite amount of seconds later..

That would create a fulfilled infinite series, which is impossible.

You are basically claiming that traveling into an eternal past would eventually get you through every moment possible. Which would imply an end to the journey. Which would imply a beginning. Which we have stipulated does not exist.

I hope you will think on this some more, because your grasp of the concepts is not complete.

 

[Enmos]

That would create a fulfilled infinite series, which is impossible.

You are basically claiming that traveling into an eternal past would eventually get you through every moment possible. Which would imply an end to the journey. Which would imply a beginning. Which we have stipulated does not exist.

I hope you will think on this some more, because your grasp of the concepts is not complete.

You don't want my proof ?

Anyway, I will think on it some more. I admit I'm not seeing the full picture right now. But I also have a gut feeling that your explanation is not correct. I'll get back to you on this later

 

[swivel]

You don't want my proof ?

Anyway, I will think on it some more. I admit I'm not seeing the full picture right now. But I also have a gut feeling that your explanation is not correct. I'll get back to you on this later

Any time. Debates about the infinite and the infinitesimal are my absolute favorite. And I really enjoy debating with you. It is funny how I absolutely agree with you on some topics and couldn't disagree more on others. Just don't ever take me too seriously.

 

[Burada]

LONG BEACH, Calif. -- Space is typically thought of as a very quiet place. But one team of astronomers has found a strange cosmic noise that booms six times louder than expected.

The roar is from the distant cosmos. Nobody knows what causes it.

Of course, sound waves can't travel in a vacuum (which is what most of space is), or at least they can't very efficiently. But radio waves can.

Radio waves are not sound waves, but they are still electromagnetic waves, situated on the low-frequency end of the light spectrum.

Many objects in the universe, including stars and quasars, emit radio waves. Even our home galaxy, the Milky Way, emits a static hiss. Other galaxies also send out a background radio hiss.

But the newly detected signal, described here today at the 213th meeting of the American Astronomical Society, is far louder than astronomers expected.

There is "something new and interesting going on in the universe," said Alan Kogut of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.

A team led by Kogut detected the signal with a balloon-borne instrument named ARCADE.

In July 2006, the instrument was launched from NASA's Columbia Scientific Balloon Facility in Palestine, Texas, and reached an altitude of about 120,000 feet, where the atmosphere thins into the vacuum of space.

ARCADE's mission was to search the sky for faint signs of heat from the first generation of stars, but instead they heard a roar from the distant reaches of the universe.

"The universe really threw us a curve," Kogut said. "Instead of the faint signal we hoped to find, here was this booming noise six times louder than anyone had predicted."

Detailed analysis of the signal ruled out primordial stars or any known radio sources, including gas in the outermost halo of our own galaxy.

Other radio galaxies also can't account for the noise – there just aren't enough of them.

"You'd have to pack them into the universe like sardines," said study team member Dale Fixsen of the University of Maryland. "There wouldn't be any space left between one galaxy and the next."

The signal is measured to be six times brighter than the combined emission of all known radio sources in the universe.

For now, the origin of the signal remains a mystery.

"We really don't know what it is,"said team member Michael Seiffert of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.

I guess it's safe to say that the early universe was indeed, a very noisey and violent place with all of the fireworks going off all the time.

 

[Enmos]

Any time. Debates about the infinite and the infinitesimal are my absolute favorite. And I really enjoy debating with you. It is funny how I absolutely agree with you on some topics and couldn't disagree more on others. Just don't ever take me too seriously.

Ok. You say time had a beginning right ?
Wouldn't it then be logical to say that time always was ? There was never a time when there was no time.. you follow ?
So if time has always been that means that the universe has also been forever already. This is not an argument for time being infinite btw.

 

[Burada]

Ok. You say time had a beginning right ?
Wouldn't it then be logical to say that time always was ? There was never a time when there was no time.. you follow ?
So if time has always been that means that the universe has also been forever already. This is not an argument for time being infinite btw.

Just out of curisity, what is your definition of 'Time'? If we're all talking about 'Time', we need to know what it is that we're all talking about. You know what I mean? By the way, what 'Time is it'? I mean 'Galaxy time', 'Universe time' or 'Big Bang time' or is it 'Universal tme'? I'm getting confused here. O.K Just tell us what 'Time' is. That should do for starters.

 

[PieAreSquared]

A number of people in Taos,New Mexico hear a hum, so.

 

[Enmos]

Just out of curisity, what is your definition of 'Time'? If we're all talking about 'Time', we need to know what it is that we're all talking about. You know what I mean? By the way, what 'Time is it'? I mean 'Galaxy time', 'Universe time' or 'Big Bang time' or is it 'Universal tme'? I'm getting confused here. O.K Just tell us what 'Time' is. That should do for starters.

Imagine I slip a sleeping pill into your drink and put you in a room without windows. When you wake up you won't know what time it is, or what day, but you can still tell that time is going by when you move your hand in front of your face.
In other words, relative time (bit of a pleonasm there ), a succession of moments.

 

[Burada]

Imagine I slip a sleeping pill into your drink and put you in a room without windows. When you wake up you won't know what time it is, or what day, but you can still tell that time is going by when you move your hand in front of your face.
In other words, relative time (bit of a pleonasm there ), a succession of moments.

Darn! I always thought it was the 'Time' it takes to go from one event to another. How could I have been so wrong. I suppose I didn't take the 'Time' to really find out. Joke's on me I guess.

 

[Enmos]

Darn! I always thought it was the 'Time' it takes to go from one event to another. How could I have been so wrong. I suppose I didn't take the 'Time' to really find out. Joke's on me I guess.

Time is the time it takes to go from one event to another ? That makes no sense.

 

[Burada]

Time is the time it takes to go from one event to another ? That makes no sense.

O.K. How much 'time' does it take you to go from your house (one event) to the nearest ATM (the next event)? Maybe 10 minutes? Or in 'Galactic' terms, How long did it take the (1st event) fuse (once God lit it) to burn before it (the second event) actually blewup (the Big Bang)? It get's pretty simple after that.