Science of Water Memory?

[KUMAR5]

Kumar, again, you can make up any definitions for any terms you want and put them in your diary. But if you want to make sense to any other person, you have to use established language

This forum is not your diary.

Applying the term 'memory' to water is as useful sensical as applying the term 'flaming sky chariot' to the sun. Its the stuff of non-science.

Sorry but here, I am trying to look and justify those aspects which are look logical in routine and practical life but not yet clear in science. So bounces can be quite obious.
Boiled water does retain hest, does retrive heat and does loose hest. It can be easily checkedaily and quite routinne in our daily life. So how it can not be considered as memory of heat in water?.
"Memory is the process of taking in information from the world around us, processing it, storing it and later recalling that information"

Above is one dict. definition of memory. How boiled or iced water is different from it?

 

[Sarkus]

"Memory is the process of taking in information from the world around us, processing it, storing it and later recalling that information"

Above is one dict. definition of memory. How boiled or iced water is different from it?

Try examining the words in that definition and see if they fit the scenario. If you do that then it should become quite clear reasonably quickly. Unless, of course, you want to redefine some of the other words as well.
Here's a starter for 10: is energy a form of information? (hint: there is a correct answer to this.)

 

[foghorn]

"Memory is the process of taking in information from the world around us, processing it, storing it and later recalling that information"Above is one dict. definition of memory.

Begging the question in the context of water, does water lose its memory as it gets older?

 

[DaveC426913]

?.
"Memory is the process of taking in information from the world around us, processing it, storing it and later recalling that information"

Above is one dict. definition of memory. How boiled or iced water is different from it?

Water is not an 'us'.
Water does not 'process'.
Water does not 'recall'.

What you are making is called a metaphor, and it is a tool of literature; not of science.

It is no more valid than telling us that fire is alive because it grows, eats, reproduces and dies.

 

[KUMAR5]

Water is not an 'us'.
Water does not 'process'.
Water does not 'recall'.

What you are making is called a metaphor, and it is a tool of literature; not of science.

It is no more valid than telling us that fire is alive because it grows, eats, reproduces and dies.

But computer is also not 'us'. Still it has memory. Memory of water means information presence of its exposures or interactions with other substances which can be recalled. Heat is exposed to water. It cause some chsnges in water molecules, it retein that heat and this heat can be recalled or experianced by us. So there should be no issue. Yes there is an issue that it do not retain such memory for long term. But this issue is invalud in case of magnetized iron or when other molecules than of water remain present in water for long term (refer 6 justifications in my other topic). There will be constsnt trsnsfer of energy from higher level in other molecules to lower level in water molecules.

 

[Sarkus]

It is no more valid than telling us that fire is alive because it grows, eats, reproduces and dies.

If we follow his thinking then everything becomes a memory of something for the process they are part of. Alas it is nothing but vacuuous twaddle.

Unfortunately, you can explain to him until you're blue in the face, but unfortunately trolls do what they do, and he'll just post more inane nonsense.

 

[DaveC426913]

But computer is also not 'us'. Still it has memory..

Yep.
A computer can also process, store and recall information.

Water cannot.

Except metaphorically. The poetry forum is two doors down on the left.

 

[KUMAR5]

Yep.
A computer can also process, store and recall information.

Water cannot.

Except metaphorically. The poetry forum is two doors down on the left.

If water can not then how it become hotter, retain heat for sometime and make us to feel it hot? It cover all three aspects for memory. Most of the time we do not look routines by scientific angle and just pass or ignore it as routine. But in reality these also have some scientific basis.

 

[KUMAR5]

If we follow his thinking then everything becomes a memory of something for the process they are part of. Alas it is nothing but vacuuous twaddle.

Unfortunately, you can explain to him until you're blue in the face, but unfortunately trolls do what they do, and he'll just post more inane nonsense.

Actualky, whatever is available on internet and that you are putting here is trolling in real sense because you are not contributing anything. If you are outting that thing without relevant link eithout giving credit to that site as information given by you, that will be dishonesty. So better post something new or with ling. Let it not yet be fully scientific but still look ligical and have long practical appearance. Probably iur normal and natural exposures like our food s are not studied but are just observed.

 

[Sarkus]

Actualky, whatever is available on internet and that you are putting here is trolling in real sense because you are not contributing anything.

How is it "not contributing" to explain to you that "water memory" is a pathological water science, that there is no basis for it in science, and yet people try to cling to it to explain how pseudo-scientific horse manure like homeopathy "really works", while ignoring every single criticism of their arguments?

If you are outting that thing without relevant link eithout giving credit to that site as information given by you, that will be dishonesty.

Which "thing" are you referring to that I have supposedly not provided links to? Youtube being full of "proofs" of bigfoot, Nessie, aliens?

So better post something new or with ling. Let it not yet be fully scientific but still look ligical and have long practical appearance.

It's not for me to post something new, or with a link. If you're claiming water to have memory, you post the article, the link, the detail. We'll then happily rip it to shreds.

Probably iur normal and natural exposures like our food s are not studied but are just observed.

??? I'm sure you think this means something. Perhaps you want to elaborate so that everyone else can understand as well?

 

[Sarkus]

If water can not then how it become hotter, retain heat for sometime and make us to feel it hot? It cover all three aspects for memory.

A memory requires the processing of information into storage for later retrieval.
The thermal energy water has is not itself information.
There is no "processing" of that energy by water, merely a quantity within the water.
The one thing water can do is, to an extent, store that energy for later work, albeit with significant losses over time. But that doesn't mean water has a memory, any more the oceans have a memory of water, or my garage has a memory of the junk in it, or your plate of food has a memory of the food on it. All of those have a store of something (be it heat, water, junk, food) that is later used/changed, but that is not a memory. There is no processing by the ocean / garage / plate. There is no putting the water/junk/food aside for later retrieval by the ocean/garage/plate.
To think that these things constitute memory is, as has been explained to you, an incorrect use of the term.

 

[KUMAR5]

How is it "not contributing" to explain to you that "water...

Actually technically, it should be claimed as information of active substtance/s oresent in wster. Like eg information of heat is present in boiling water. Ok?

 

[KUMAR5]

A memory requires the processing of information into storage for later retrieval.
The thermal energy water has is not itself information.
There is no "processing" of that energy by water, merely a quantity within the water.
The one thing water can do is, to an extent, store that energy for later work, albeit with significant losses over time. But that doesn't mean water has a memory, any more the oceans have a memory of water, or my garage has a memory of the junk in it, or your plate of food has a memory of the food on it. All of those have a store of something (be it heat, water, junk, food) that is later used/changed, but that is not a memory. There is no processing by the ocean / garage / plate. There is no putting the water/junk/food aside for later retrieval by the ocean/garage/plate.
To think that these things constitute memory is, as has been explained to you, an incorrect use of the term.

Whatever. If information of expisures to water is stored by wster and motions and structure if water molecules changes on such exoisures, it will just like be proccesding this energy is released later, it will be recalling. Whatever, information of heat is stored, processed and recalled, justufy information of expisures present for some time.

 

[Sarkus]

Actually technically, it should be claimed as information of active substtance/s oresent in wster.

No, it couldn't. Energy is not a substance. Energy is a property of the substance, i.e. how fast the molecules are moving. Motion is not an active substance.
If you're claiming that heat - or more accurately the energy - within the water is information that there is another active substance present in the water, then this, too is nonsense. Boiling pure water is still just pure water. It just has more energy than frozen pure water.

Like eg information of heat is present in boiling water. Ok?

No. Heat is not a substance. Energy is a property.
Sure, we (humans) can create information from the facts, such as X ml of boiling water will have Y joules of thermal energy, and that boiling water will have energy in it. But this information is processed by us, stored by us in our memory, and retrieved by us when we use that fact.
Surel even you can see the fundamental difference between this and what you're trying to claim about water having a memory??

Whatever.

So you ignore everything I wrote. Fair enough. And you want to be taken seriously, rather than the troll you amply display yourself to be?

If information of expisures to water is stored by wster and motions and structure if water molecules changes on such exoisures, it will just like be proccesding this energy is released later, it will be recalling.

The storing of energy is not itself a memory!!! This has been explained to you multiple times already! It is not processed by the water, and is not recalled by the water.
FFS! Go and bug the linguistics thread if you really want to carry on down this nonsense path. Learn what the words you use actually mean. It will help.

 

[KUMAR5]

No, it couldn't. Energy is not a substance. Energy is a property of the substance, i.e. how fast the molecules are moving. Motion is not an active substance.
If you're claiming that heat - or more accurately the energy - within the water is information that there is another active substance present in the water, then this, too is nonsense. Boiling pure water is still just pure water. It just has more energy than frozen pure water.
No. Heat is not a substance. Energy is a property.

Okay, is it acceotable to you that heat rnergy exist, stored for sometime and will be released?

 

[Sarkus]

Sure, many things exist, are stored, and are later released. I gave you examples previously, which you have thus far chosen to ignore.
But, to give you the same hint that I gave you earlier: energy is not information.

So, please, continue with your nonsense....

 

[KUMAR5]

Sure, many things exist, are stored, and are later released. I gave you examples previously, which you have thus far chosen to ignore.
But, to give you the same hint that I gave you earlier: energy is not information.

So, please, continue with your nonsense....

You hear some voices, you look some images, these are energy based but still memorized by us. Even through camera, images are captured and stored on a photographic paper. Even our voice is recorded. All these are energy based but still stored.

 

[Sarkus]

You hear some voices, you look some images, these are energy based but still memorized by us. Even through camera, images are captured and stored on a photographic paper. Even our voice is recorded. All these are energy based but still stored.

You are committing the logical fallacy of affirming the consequent.

To wit: just because memory utilises energy does not mean that utilising energy means it is a memory.

Further, all your examples include a key thing: the human. I.e. the human takes the image, hears the sound, and the human processes it, puts in to their storage (brain) and retrieves it later.

You can't claim water has memory by arguing that humans have memory. Nor can you argue that just because human memory involves energy, anything else that involves energy can be a memory, as you are doing.

So try again, if you really want. Who knows, one day you may just stop trolling these fora, stop being blatantly dishonest, and get yourself an education. But I'm guessing it's not Christmas quite yet.

 

[KUMAR5]

You are committing the logical fallacy of a.

I gave example of human to justify yhat even energy can be memorized and stiored. Let us first accept it.
In practical experisnces, it is well evident that bouling wster is hot, it get cooled and its hest can even be used. So in layman understsnding it is storage of information of heat in water. There is no issue in it. But issue is how any information of exposure in water can be retained for long time if that exposure is removed? It is requirement to justify homeooathinc remedy. Then we come to same conclusion that other molecular presence should be there which I claim by 6 justifications given in other topic. Passing energy do not remain in water for long, so no memory or its information in water for long.

 

[Sarkus]

I gave example of human to justify yhat even energy can be memorized and stiored. Let us first accept it.

Energy can not be memorised! Energy is not information! How many more times do you have to be told that? So no, let's not first accept it - because then we'd both be wrong!

In practical experisnces, it is well evident that bouling wster is hot, it get cooled and its hest can even be used. So in layman understsnding it is storage of information of heat in water.

Again, how many times are you just going to repeat the same examples while ignoring every explanation as to why they are not valid?? And you claim not to be a troll??
Yes, things can be stored. Energy can be stored. Junk in my garage can be stored. The garage does not have a memory!

There is no issue in it.

Not in the "storage" part, no. In the "memory" part, yes, there is issue, as explained, and as continually ignored by you.

Hopefully for the last time: energy is not information! For something to have a memory it must store information of something that it no longer has. When water loses heat, it loses energy. It retains no information about that lost energy. When you have a memory, however, you hold information about something you no longer have. E.g. a memory of a past experience. You store that information (not the actual reality of the experience) and you can later retrieve that information. There is no corollary to energy and hot/cold water. So stop bleating on about an invalid example!!

But issue is how any information of exposure in water can be retained for long time if that exposure is removed?

Science has demonstrated that the information (chemical structure of water it had during the exposure) lasts on the pico-second timescale.

It is requirement to justify homeooathinc remedy.

And the justification fails.

Then we come to same conclusion that other molecular presence should be there which I claim by 6 justifications given in other topic.

None of which aid the cause of the efficacy of homeopathic remedies, for the reasons given in that other thread, and which you have continued to ignore. Go figure.

Passing energy do not remain in water for long, so no memory or its information in water for long.

ENERGY IS NOT INFORMATION!!!