Religion, State, and the New Christian Spirit

[exchemist]

I agree that he is an egoist but he does hold the interests of the USA, he's a patriot.

A patriot who delights in setting the citizens at one another’s throats. A patriot who undermines the legal system of the country. A patriot who destroys trust in the electoral process. A patriot who supports autocrats who are enemies of the state and destroys faith that the country will honour its military alliances.

Some patriot.

 

[foghorn]

He may be slightly unread but I have seen more Christian in him than Hilary Clinton and Job Biden put together.

Trump showing his Christian side by encouraging Moscow to do whatever they want with Nato.
So, that's Trump encouraging murder and suffering of innocence civilians.

BBC
Quote within Quote.
" Trump says he would 'encourage' Russia to attack Nato allies who do not pay their bills

He (Trump) recalled that the leader of a "big country" had presented a hypothetical situation in which he was not meeting his financial obligations within Nato and had come under attack from Moscow.

Mr Trump said the leader had asked if the US would come to his country's aid in that scenario, which prompted him to issue a rebuke.

"I said: 'You didn't pay? You're delinquent?'... 'No I would not protect you, in fact I would encourage them to do whatever they want. You gotta pay." "
My bold above.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68266447

 

[C C]

I agree that he is an egoist but he does hold the interests of the USA, he's a patriot.

Just like Biden, he has the interests of those who vote for him in mind. And similarly like Biden, the rest can go to hell. But that won't be enough numbers for him to tip the scale come November. Trump also needs to win to have any shot at eluding imprisonment. As if there's really a genuine Monopoly "Get out of Jail" card -- free, paid or coerced -- lurking somewhere in the woodpile clutter of the WH's backyard that extends to the post-POTUS swampland.
_

 

[davewhite04]

It was you that introduced a soccer analogy into our talk of women’s inequality in the lords here:

And I said "Stop twisting my words. You said "There is nothing wrong with having a mixed sex soccer team" I explained the reason why it wouldn't happen in the top flight teams in the world. My soccer analogy broke at this point."

Remember we are talking not of the present seating of bishops, of which there are women already,
we were talking of the other faith organisations which some people want to introduce to the lords.

This will happen eventually, be patient.

 

[davewhite04]

Trump showing his Christian side by encouraging Moscow to do whatever they want with Nato.
So, that's Trump encouraging murder and suffering of innocence civilians.

BBC
Quote within Quote.
" Trump says he would 'encourage' Russia to attack Nato allies who do not pay their bills

He (Trump) recalled that the leader of a "big country" had presented a hypothetical situation in which he was not meeting his financial obligations within Nato and had come under attack from Moscow.

Mr Trump said the leader had asked if the US would come to his country's aid in that scenario, which prompted him to issue a rebuke.

"I said: 'You didn't pay? You're delinquent?'... 'No I would not protect you, in fact I would encourage them to do whatever they want. You gotta pay." "
My bold above.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68266447

I missed that, pretty damning evidence.

I agree people should pay their bills, but "encourage" war, nah my opinion has changed because of a 30 second video.

What if under the Obama administration it was discovered that he was indirectly funding Islam extremists like ISIS, and countries like Iran? It is a bit fishy how quick Trump dealt with them, and how much of a problem they were before him. Hilary Clinton emails deleted, it all stinks. The USA is in trouble politically. Apparently the Florida Governor is running for president? My ex thinks he's evil, Ron DeSantis.

What about the USA leaving behind over a billion dollars worth of military equipment in Afghanistan, and allowing extremist's to run the country? Under Biden.

I suppose the sun shines out of Obama's arse, so I'll get the conspiracy responses and general anger for saying that.

They're all as bad as each other.

The UK isn't much better.

That is why I don't follow politics.

 

[Sarkus]

That is why I don't follow politics.

Don't you think it worth investing time to find out about who you are voting for, and who will be in the highest office of your country?

As for Trump's foreign policy record, the Washington Post summed it up reasonably:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...gn-policy-report-card-is-full-failing-grades/

 

[davewhite04]

Don't you think it worth investing time to find out about who you are voting for, and who will be in the highest office of your country?

I'm interested in my daughters future. I don't vote in the UK general election. The only party I would vote for is labour because I'm working class, and my granddad would turn in his grave if I voted for anyone else.

I don't like labour, haven't for years so for the general election, no vote.

 

[C C]

[...] I agree people should pay their bills, but "encourage" war, nah my opinion has changed because of a 30 second video.

[...] What about the USA leaving behind over a billion dollars worth of military equipment in Afghanistan, and allowing extremist's to run the country? Under Biden.

[...] They're all as bad as each other.

The UK isn't much better.

That is why I don't follow politics.

I get the sense that the promise of NATO members to allocate more for their own individual defenses was more of a loose or voluntary gesture, anyway. But the threat of Russia has triggered some of them to bulk up even past the 2%. Impairing that, though, is more personnel leaving: "Europe’s soldiers keep quitting, just when NATO needs them"

Fact-checking Trump's comments urging Russia to invade 'delinquent' NATO members
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...ging-russia-to-invade-delinquent-nato-members

EXCERPT: NATO members don’t pay to belong and don’t owe the organization anything other than contributions to a largely administrative fund. Trump clearly wasn’t referring to those administrative payments.

His frequent complaint during his presidency, and now, has been how much NATO countries put into their own military budgets.

U.S. presidents before him raised that concern. In fact, it was in 2014, during the Barack Obama administration, that NATO members agreed to move “toward” spending 2 percent of GDP on national defense by 2024. Stoltenberg also has said members needed to invest more in their militaries....

- - - - - - - - -

NATO: Which countries are paying their fair share on defence?
https://www.forces.net/news/world/nato-which-countries-pay-their-share-defence

EXCERPTS: One trend seen is that countries bordering Ukraine, Russia, or its neighbour and ally Belarus are spending increasingly more following Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

Estonia (2.73%), Lithuania (2.54%), Finland (2.45%), Romania (2.44%), Hungary (2.43%) and Latvia (2.07%) are all exceeding the alliance's guideline for defence expenditure.

[...] The nations falling short of the alliance's target in 2023 were France (1.90%), Montenegro (1.87%), North Macedonia (1.87%), Bulgaria (1.84%), Croatia (1.79%), Albania (1.76%), the Netherlands (1.70%), Norway (1.67%), Denmark (1.65%), Czech Republic (1.50%), Portugal (1.48%), Italy (1.46%), Canada (1.38%), Slovenia (1.35%), Turkey (1.31%), Spain (1.26%), Belgium (1.13%) and Luxembourg (0.72%).​

_

 

[cluelusshusbund]

FOX?

I knew FOX was bad... but man... seeing what they've done to the mind of a fellow New Age Christan Atheist is just plain sad

 

[foghorn]

Deleted double post

 

[foghorn]

What about the USA leaving behind over a billion dollars worth of military equipment in Afghanistan, and allowing extremist's to run the country? Under Biden.

Trump made a deal with the Taliban before Biden came to office. Trump even invited the Taliban to Camp David in America to speak about a deal.

" Talks continued in Doha, and in February 2020, Trump announced that there was a deal. The basic contours: The United States was to get out of Afghanistan in 14 months and, in exchange, the Taliban agreed not to let Afghanistan become a haven for terrorists and to stop attacking U.S. service members. ...............
............When Biden took over, there were just 3,500 U.S. troops left in the country (from a high of 100,000 during the Obama years). He pushed back the date of the planned withdrawal from May 1 to four months later, but he kept the deal intact. U.S. troops would be out of Afghanistan by the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/20/trump-peace-deal-taliban/

 

[davewhite04]

Trump made a deal with the Taliban before Biden came to office. Trump even invited the Taliban to Camp David in America to speak about a deal.

" Talks continued in Doha, and in February 2020, Trump announced that there was a deal. The basic contours: The United States was to get out of Afghanistan in 14 months and, in exchange, the Taliban agreed not to let Afghanistan become a haven for terrorists and to stop attacking U.S. service members. ...............
............When Biden took over, there were just 3,500 U.S. troops left in the country (from a high of 100,000 during the Obama years). He pushed back the date of the planned withdrawal from May 1 to four months later, but he kept the deal intact. U.S. troops would be out of Afghanistan by the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/20/trump-peace-deal-taliban/

Biden left the equipment, Trump had no power he was not president, therefore had no say.

Biden is to blame as simple as that.

 

[davewhite04]

I get the sense that the promise of NATO members to allocate more for their own individual defenses was more of a loose or voluntary gesture, anyway. But the threat of Russia has triggered some of them to bulk up even past the 2%. Impairing that, though, is more personnel leaving: "Europe’s soldiers keep quitting, just when NATO needs them"

Fact-checking Trump's comments urging Russia to invade 'delinquent' NATO members
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...ging-russia-to-invade-delinquent-nato-members

EXCERPT: NATO members don’t pay to belong and don’t owe the organization anything other than contributions to a largely administrative fund. Trump clearly wasn’t referring to those administrative payments.

His frequent complaint during his presidency, and now, has been how much NATO countries put into their own military budgets.

U.S. presidents before him raised that concern. In fact, it was in 2014, during the Barack Obama administration, that NATO members agreed to move “toward” spending 2 percent of GDP on national defense by 2024. Stoltenberg also has said members needed to invest more in their militaries....​

_

Trump was correct about countries not paying their fair share, but encourage war is crazy. Maybe the video clip was out of context, but he sais what he said no getting around it.

Who do you think would be a good president in the next election?

 

[foghorn]

Biden left the equipment, Trump had no power he was not president, therefore had no say.
Biden is to blame as simple as that.

Trump made the deal for the Taliban to run the country not Biden.
What was to be feared if the Taliban did pick up this equipment, Trump trusted them enough to run the country in his deal with the Taliban.

And yet, there is Trump later saying this equipment should have been brought back because the Taliban cannot be trusted??
Biden was following Trump's deal to leave the country in the hands, of what you called "extremists", in your post #125 "and allowing extremist's to run the country".

 

[davewhite04]

Trump made the deal for the Taliban to run the country not Biden.
What was to be feared if the Taliban did pick up this equipment, Trump trusted them enough to run the country in his deal with the Taliban.

And yet, there is Trump later saying this equipment should have been brought back because the Taliban cannot be trusted??
Biden was following Trump's deal to leave the country in the hands, of what you called "extremists", in your post #125 "and allowing extremist's to run the country".

Nonsense.

 

[C C]

Trump was correct about countries not paying their fair share, but encourage war is crazy. Maybe the video clip was out of context, but he sais what he said no getting around it.

It's nothing new, though. Trump has been criticizing NATO in interviews since 1987, especially with respect to members spending more on defense. In a book published in 2000, Trump wrote that exiting NATO would save the United States "millions of dollars" a year.

He declared NATO obsolete and outdated in 2016, and the next year rebuked ally nations for not paying their "fair share."

But he also flipped-flopped during a press conference in 2017 and stated "it’s no longer obsolete."

That kind of mixed-messaging of creating confusion as to what he actually thinks or will do is what he's infamously renown for (he seems to believe that the value of keeping his opponents off balance outweighs the detrimental aspects).

In 2019, Trump threatened Germany with respect to trade, if it didn't increase its military spending.

Other menacing statements made in 2016, to pressure NATO:

"Either they have to pay up for past deficiencies or they have to get out. [...] And if it breaks up NATO, it breaks up NATO."

"I don’t want to get rid of NATO, but you always have to be prepared to walk. It’s possible."

Who do you think would be a good president in the next election?

There are no "good" options for POTUS.

A vote for Biden is a continuation of the country being steered by policies shaped by one of the most ludicrous and reality-impaired collection of academic scholars in history. And a vote for Trump is the opposite extreme of anti-intellectualism across the board.
_

 

[davewhite04]

It's nothing new, though. Trump has been criticizing NATO in interviews since 1987, especially with respect to members spending more on defense. In a book published in 2000, Trump wrote that exiting NATO would save the United States "millions of dollars" a year.

He declared NATO obsolete and outdated in 2016, and the next year rebuked ally nations for not paying their "fair share."

But he also flipped-flopped during a press conference in 2017 and stated "it’s no longer obsolete."

That kind of mixed-messaging of creating confusion as to what he actually thinks or will do is what he's infamously renown for (he seems to believe that the value of keeping his opponents off balance outweighs the detrimental aspects).

In 2019, Trump threatened Germany with respect to trade, if it didn't increase its military spending.

Other menacing statements made in 2016, to pressure NATO:

"Either they have to pay up for past deficiencies or they have to get out. [...] And if it breaks up NATO, it breaks up NATO."

"I don’t want to get rid of NATO, but you always have to be prepared to walk. It’s possible."

Trump had money on his brain from day one of his presidency, he also ran the line of no one respected the USA anymore. Those and the infamous wall. Pretty summed up his main issues. China not paying tax another one. What was weird was his obsession with dictators like Putin(he is a dictator), and Kim Jong Un and his respect for them. Also moving the Jerusalem embassy to Israel. He did strange things. Do you think democracy work?

There are no "good" options for POTUS.

I feared you'd say that. It will be a Biden or Trump battle do you think?

A vote for Biden is a continuation of the country being steered by policies shaped by one of the most ludicrous and reality-impaired collection of academic scholars in history. And a vote for Trump is the opposite extreme of anti-intellectualism across the board.
_

The USA is crying out for a leader imo, but British politics is in the same mess if you ask me.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Trump made the deal for the Taliban to run the country not Biden.
What was to be feared if the Taliban did pick up this equipment, Trump trusted them enough to run the country in his deal with the Taliban.

And yet, there is Trump later saying this equipment should have been brought back because the Taliban cannot be trusted??
Biden was following Trump's deal to leave the country in the hands, of what you called "extremists", in your post #125 "and allowing extremist's to run the country".

Ok... time to ease up on Dave-04 wit all you'r facts.!!!

After all... if you got you'r news from FOX you wouldn't know Sht from Shinola ether

 

[C C]

[...] What was weird was his obsession with dictators like Putin(he is a dictator), and Kim Jong Un and his respect for them. Also moving the Jerusalem embassy to Israel. He did strange things. Do you think democracy work?

But the art of cozying up to bastards is a skill set that businessmen and opportunistic politicians have long been noted for.

During its pragmatist era of the Cold War, the US government aided a variety of tyrants -- like the last Shah of Iran, Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines, Saddam Husein, etc.

Only communist regimes were off-limits when it came to overt and covert handshakes of a non-détente nature. Trump arguably reflects that familiar, negotiating style of the past in more of a blunt or undisguised way. (wink, wink)

I feared you'd say that. It will be a Biden or Trump battle do you think?

The presidential primaries concluded back in March, with Biden and Trump the presumptive nominees (their status will become official at their respective party conventions later in the year).

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. emerged as the most viable independent candidate, which is irrelevant, aside from a so-called "3rd-party" runner drawing some votes away from either one or both of the other two.

Trump's 2024 campaign is being called "terrifyingly competent" by observers, in contrast to the turbulent ones of before. The dysfunctional personalities are supposedly gone and replaced by an inner circle of disciplined and efficient myrmidons.

"President Trump knows who can deliver and who can’t. [...] While his 2016 agenda was frequently stymied by infighting and incompetence, available signs point to a second West Wing staffed by loyalists who would actually carry out his policies."​

Such orchestrated mainstream media depictions are apparently intended to generate tension and arouse trepidation in the hearts of their progressive viewers and readers. Suspense all the way down to the final moments of November 5th, supposedly, when victory will barely be seized by Biden. Relief, relief, relief.

In reality, it will be probably all be over hours beforehand. The only question being whether Trump will proclaim the election rigged again.

Worrywarts and nervous Nellies, over phantom perils and the exaggerated might of Sauron.
_

 

[foghorn]

Ok... time to ease up on Dave-04 wit all you'r facts.!!!
After all... if you got you'r news from FOX you wouldn't know Sht from Shinola ether

That’s not a nice thing to imply about my buddy Dave.