Religion, State, and the New Christian Spirit

[davewhite04]

Since Trump is an atheist ...

Prove this and answer my post in the other thread that you ignored without a word, and I'll respond to this.

 

[Pinball1970]

He might not know the bible, and he might be a bit of a prick, but the alternatives are far worse.

The OT pertains to Mosaic law and the History/legends of the ancient Hebrews and Israelites.

The Gospels, Acts, letters and Revelation pertain to the life, death, resurrection of Jesus and the coming new kingdom.
The Jews, besides the small sect of Jesus followers rejected the idea.
They still do for one simple reason, Yhwh is the one god, "thou shalt have no gods before me."
Jesus became god in the Christian tradition so this is completely against what Judaism teaches.
Looking from the other side (Christians looking at the OT) things get very confusing.
We were taught (Catholics) that the Jew killed jesus and they obviously really messed up.
However we are also taught some stuff from genesis and the ten commandments.

So back to Trump, if he is a Christian he should at least know these basics. It is not like he is missing a few details, he is unaware of fundamental differences.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

"I have seen more Christian in him than Hilary Clinton and Job Biden put together.

Yes... Trump comes across loud an clear about his Christan values.!!!

An we know this because he makes it very clear what a Hypo-Christan he truly is.. ie... he spews the quite part out loud on a daily basis.!!!

I thank its the big draw for most Trumpers... cause they can easily relate to the Azzhole that Trump truly is.!!!

As far as Hillary an Biden is concerned... whether its really based on there beliefs or not... I thank they are un-relatable to the average Trumper-Christan cause they walk-the-walk that comes much closer to what Jesus actually taught.!!!

A-Man.!!!

 

[davewhite04]

The OT pertains to Mosaic law and the History/legends of the ancient Hebrews and Israelites.

Correct

The Gospels, Acts, letters and Revelation pertain to the life, death, resurrection of Jesus and the coming new kingdom.

Correct

The Jews, besides the small sect of Jesus followers rejected the idea.

Correct

They still do for one simple reason, Yhwh is the one god, "thou shalt have no gods before me."

Jesus became god in the Christian tradition so this is completely against what Judaism teaches.

Jesus was already God.

Looking from the other side (Christians looking at the OT) things get very confusing.

No they don't. Jesus was predicted in the OT. Isaiah 52:12 - 53 is a good start.

We were taught (Catholics) that the Jew killed jesus and they obviously really messed up.

The Romans killed Jesus. The Jews instigated it, maybe for valid reasons.

However we are also taught some stuff from genesis and the ten commandments.

Mainly that Abraham is the father of all three Abrahamic religions(Judaism, Christian, and Islam).

So back to Trump, if he is a Christian he should at least know these basics. It is not like he is missing a few details, he is unaware of fundamental differences.

Have you got evidence of this?

 

[davewhite04]

As far as Hillary an Biden is concerned... whether its really based on there beliefs or not... I thank they are un-relatable to the average Trumper-Christan cause they walk-the-walk that comes much closer to what Jesus actually taught.!!!

You're talking nonsense.

Biden and H Clinton are as corrupt as corrupt can be.

EDIT: Even I've heard of the Hunter Biden laptop and H Clinton deleting 100s of emails before Trump got in. You're just a bad judge of character. Trump lies(like everyone else, acts like a baby etc.) but he eliminated Islamic extremism in weeks, it was out of control with H Clinton, Obama and Biden, that you cannot deny. He had good control of jobs, business coming back to the USA, China paying the tax they owed on selling to the USA, stock market. Obviously the economy went haywire around the world because of Covid, Biden hasn't had to deal with that. Just look at how destabilised the world is with sleepy Joe in charge. You can't say you'd vote for him again surely? Sleepy Joe is supposedly a Catholic, has he read the bible?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

You're talking nonsense.

Biden and H Clinton are as corrupt as corrupt can be.

EDIT: Even I've heard of the Hunter Biden laptop and H Clinton deleting 100s of emails before Trump got in. You're just a bad judge of character. Trump lies(like everyone else, acts like a baby etc.) but he eliminated Islamic extremism in weeks, it was out of control with H Clinton, Obama and Biden, that you cannot deny. He had good control of jobs, business coming back to the USA, China paying the tax they owed on selling to the USA, stock market. Obviously the economy went haywire around the world because of Covid, Biden hasn't had to deal with that. Just look at how destabilised the world is with sleepy Joe in charge. You can't say you'd vote for him again surely? Sleepy Joe is supposedly a Catholic, has he read the bible?

Hells Bells... I didn't know any of that stuff... whare do you get you'r news from.???

 

[Pinball1970]

No they don't. Jesus was predicted in the OT. Isaiah 52:12 - 53 is a good start.

A different conversation.

Perhaps we can thrash that out in another thread.

 

[Sarkus]

Hells Bells... I didn't know any of that stuff... whare do you get you'r news from.???

FOX?

 

[Sarkus]

Biden and H Clinton are as corrupt as corrupt can be.

EDIT: Even I've heard of the Hunter Biden laptop ...

You mean the one that even the Republican investigations could find no evidence of wrongdoing by either of the Bidens?
To quote from wiki...
"Despite persistent allegations that the laptop contents indicated corruption by Joe Biden, a joint investigation by two Republican Senate committees released in September 2020 did not find wrongdoing by him, nor did a Republican House Oversight committee investigation by November 2023."

Sure, the Republicans have made as much noise about so-called corruption as they can, and have simply made themselves to look foolish and worse.

...and H Clinton deleting 100s of emails before Trump got in.

The FBI, headed by James Comedy, found that Clinton had been careless, and not intentionally malicious in her actions. Subsequent investigations found similarly. The only reason people are still trying to paint her as corrupt for this matter is because Trump keeps claiming it while offering no evidence of it.

You're just a bad judge of character.

Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper has said that Trump is a “threat to democracy" and "I think he’s unfit for office. … He puts himself before country. His actions are all about him and not about the country. And then, of course, I believe he has integrity and character issues as well.”
Former national security adviser John Bolton has said Trump is “unfit to be president.”
Defense Secretary James Mattis said of Trump: “[he is] the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people.”
Mike Pence has said: "The American people deserve to know that President Trump asked me to put him over my oath to the Constitution. … Anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be president of the United States.”
Bill Barr said that Trump "shouldn’t be anywhere near the Oval Office."
John Kelly said of him: "A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law. There is nothing more that can be said. God help us.”
Anthony Scaramucci said that “[Trump] is the domestic terrorist of the 21st century.”
Sarah Matthews: "I think that his actions on January 6 and the lead-up to it, the way that he’s acted in the aftermath, and his continuation of pushing this lie that the election is stolen has made him wholly unfit to hold office every again.”
Cassidy Hutchinson: “I think that Donald Trump is the most grave threat we will face to our democracy in our lifetime, and potentially in American history.”

These are all people who worked with and/or for him. This list and such views is also not exhaustive.
If you think that people who dislike him, his antics, his threat, etc are "a bad judge of character" then they are at least in good company.

 

[davewhite04]

A different conversation.

Perhaps we can thrash that out in another thread.

I'll see mate, I can see the hostility from here!

 

[davewhite04]

FOX?

The New York Times for you I take it? Which ones corrupt?

 

[Pinball1970]

You're talking nonsense.

Biden and H Clinton are as corrupt as corrupt can be.

EDIT: Even I've heard of the Hunter Biden laptop and H Clinton deleting 100s of emails before Trump got in. You're just a bad judge of character. Trump lies(like everyone else, acts like a baby etc.) but he eliminated Islamic extremism in weeks, it was out of control with H Clinton, Obama and Biden, that you cannot deny. He had good control of jobs, business coming back to the USA, China paying the tax they owed on selling to the USA, stock market. Obviously the economy went haywire around the world because of Covid, Biden hasn't had to deal with that. Just look at how destabilised the world is with sleepy Joe in charge. You can't say you'd vote for him again surely? Sleepy Joe is supposedly a Catholic, has he read the bible?

He is an egoist I think we can agree on that. He does not put the interests of the country first.

 

[davewhite04]

You mean the one that even the Republican investigations could find no evidence of wrongdoing by either of the Bidens?
To quote from wiki...
"Despite persistent allegations that the laptop contents indicated corruption by Joe Biden, a joint investigation by two Republican Senate committees released in September 2020 did not find wrongdoing by him, nor did a Republican House Oversight committee investigation by November 2023."

Sure, the Republicans have made as much noise about so-called corruption as they can, and have simply made themselves to look foolish and worse.
The FBI, headed by James Comedy, found that Clinton had been careless, and not intentionally malicious in her actions. Subsequent investigations found similarly. The only reason people are still trying to paint her as corrupt for this matter is because Trump keeps claiming it while offering no evidence of it.


Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper has said that Trump is a “threat to democracy" and "I think he’s unfit for office. … He puts himself before country. His actions are all about him and not about the country. And then, of course, I believe he has integrity and character issues as well.”
Former national security adviser John Bolton has said Trump is “unfit to be president.”
Defense Secretary James Mattis said of Trump: “[he is] the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people.”
Mike Pence has said: "The American people deserve to know that President Trump asked me to put him over my oath to the Constitution. … Anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be president of the United States.”
Bill Barr said that Trump "shouldn’t be anywhere near the Oval Office."
John Kelly said of him: "A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law. There is nothing more that can be said. God help us.”
Anthony Scaramucci said that “[Trump] is the domestic terrorist of the 21st century.”
Sarah Matthews: "I think that his actions on January 6 and the lead-up to it, the way that he’s acted in the aftermath, and his continuation of pushing this lie that the election is stolen has made him wholly unfit to hold office every again.”
Cassidy Hutchinson: “I think that Donald Trump is the most grave threat we will face to our democracy in our lifetime, and potentially in American history.”

These are all people who worked with and/or for him. This list and such views is also not exhaustive.
If you think that people who dislike him, his antics, his threat, etc are "a bad judge of character" then they are at least in good company.

You're just quoting haters, and hand picking quotes.

You simply hate Trump.

A Wikipedia article the size of this one means that it isn't over:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy

I guess it's okay for the secretary of state to delete all of her emails before leaving office. A simple apology eh? It stinks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy

 

[davewhite04]

He is an egoist I think we can agree on that. He does not put the interests of the country first.

I agree that he is an egoist but he does hold the interests of the USA, he's a patriot.

 

[Pinball1970]

I'll see mate, I can see the hostility from here!

I don't intend to be hostile.

 

[Pinball1970]

I agree that he is an egoist but he does hold the interests of the USA, he's a patriot.

I don't know. He is a business man first I think. To be successful in business you have to be able to sell yourself to clients, he can do that.

After what happened Capitol Hill he should have backed off. Told those lunatics to stand down.
Put the country first not himself.
The countries enemies would have been dancing with joy watching that circus.

 

[Sarkus]

You're just quoting haters, and hand picking quotes.

I'm quoting people who he picked to work with/for him. That should mean something to you. However, if you simply assert that all people with a negative view of Trump are "haters" to be ignored then you're simply begging the question, and purposefully sticking yourself in an echo-chamber.

Sarah Matthews, a former Trump aide reportedly said that it is “mind-boggling” how many members of his senior staff have denounced him. “These are folks who saw him up close and personal and saw his leadership style. The American people should listen to what these folks are saying because it should be alarming that the people that Trump hired to work for him a first term are saying that he’s unfit to serve for a second term.”

Former Trump White House communications director Alyssa Farah Griffin: “Fundamentally, a second Trump term could mean the end of American democracy as we know it, and I don’t say that lightly.” She has also said: "The people I’m most hoping to reach and convince that Trump is terrible for our country, are people who, like I once did, support him,"

Mark Milley: "We don’t take an oath to a country. We don’t take an oath to a tribe. We don’t take an oath to a religion. We don’t take an oath to a king or a queen, or to a tyrant or a dictator. And we don’t take an oath to a wannabe dictator.”

H.R.McMaster: "President Trump and other officials have repeatedly compromised our principles in pursuit of partisan advantage and personal gain.”

Bill Barr: "The fact of the matter is he is a consummate narcissist and he constantly engages in reckless conduct that puts his political followers at risk and the conservative and Republican agenda at risk. … He will always put his own interest and gratifying his own ego ahead of everything else, including the country’s interest. There’s no question about it. … He’s like a 9-year-old, a defiant 9-year-old kid, who’s always pushing the glass toward the edge of the table defying his parents to stop him from doing it.”

Mike Pompeo: "We need more seriousness, less noise, and leaders who are looking forward, not staring in the rearview mirror claiming victimhood.”

 

[foghorn]

Stop twisting my words. You said "There is nothing wrong with having a mixed sex soccer team" I explained the reason why it wouldn't happen in the top flight teams in the world. My soccer analogy broke at this point.

It was you that introduced a soccer analogy into our talk of women’s inequality in the lords here:

So we shouldn't have had male soccer teams before we had women soccer teams?

There are already women getting to the top of faith ranks, there are already women Archbishops. So stop trying to make me out to be some sort of sexist. You just don't like religion full stop, admit it(and you probably don't like soccer).

Remember we are talking not of the present seating of bishops, of which there are women already,
we were talking of the other faith organisations which some people want to introduce to the lords.

 

[davewhite04]

I don't intend to be hostile.

I didn't mean you would be Pinball, you are a gent.

 

[Pinball1970]

I didn't mean you would be Pinball, you are a gent.

Lovely comment thanks.
It takes a lot of class to disagree with me on some pretty big stuff but still post something like that.