Purpose of Life

[Hermann]

I am Hermann, a retired physicist, living in Australia.
I have spent a long time to make up my mind about the purpose of life. The result of my thoughts you will find on my website: www.users.bigpond.com/hermann.raith
It would be great to get some comments and to enter into an interesting discussion.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Having these perfect scenarios in mind, it would be rather astonishing, if just the most valuable individual experience, especially of higher, self-aware species would simply get lost.

I didn't see the connection between your scenarios and the soul. Hence I wasn't astonished. Would you care to explain?

 

[(Q)]

Hi Hermann

I see you've already spent some time here before and it appears you're arguments were based merely on a 'hope and a prayer,' so to speak, and were explicitly refuted.

Welcome back.

 

[Hermann]

Scientists are committed to explain everything on a materialistic basis, because materialism is a dogma in all sciences. Such explanations are possible, but the question is, whether they are convincing and satisfying.

For me the spiritual world is completely independent from the material one. Its interaction with the material world is still a mystery like gravitational forces. The soul seems to be our main existence (equivalent to our mind), which survives the biological death. Therefore I think we will also remain as self-aware individuals after death. This view does not fit to the materialistic dogma at all. Therefore the main question is, will you stick to materialism or are you open for alternatives.

In the Middle Ages scientists were locked in the cage of the church, from where they freed themselves. Now it seems to me, that they are locked in the cage of materialism, from where they have to escape, too.

 

[Gekkou]

There is no purpose until one decides they need purpose. Then, they define their own purpose. That's how it works.

 

[(Q)]

For me the spiritual world is completely independent from the material one. Its interaction with the material world is still a mystery like gravitational forces.

What's so mysterious about gravity? At least there is a measurable effect. As a physicist, you should know that.

What is the measurable effect of the spirit world?

 

[water]

There is no purpose until one decides they need purpose. Then, they define their own purpose. That's how it works.

I almost agree. Only that the purpose of life becomes a trouble when one is depressed. Otherwise, the purpose of life is not questioned.

 

[Kunax]

Life is what you make of it, no more no less. However who's in control of it is another question.

 

[Russ723]

Scientific explainations aren't satisfying?

Materialistic explainations might be very complex but,material existence is well established.

There isn't even any reason to assume a spirit world exists.

We all know what happened to so many non-materialistic explainations of the past.

 

[Hermann]

Gekkou, Water, Russ723,
Do you really believe that we and the whole universe exist only by chance – without any purpose behind?

Semblance,
Although Newton’s theory of gravity was based upon evidence, he was skeptical. He believed that it was impossible to assume a force between distant bodies in space without any direct contact. Therefore, he feared that rational individuals would not accept his theory. But scientist could cope with that and invented the field model. Thinking in models gives a feeling of understanding. For scientific evidence, it is enough to prove that nature behaves as if there were a force between bodies generated by a field.
Since Einstein scientists believe in gravity waves, which could not be measured up to now, but perhaps it may be possible soon. If scientists would believe in a spiritual world and would put similar efforts in its proof, I would assume something could be measured as well.

Kunax,
What do you mean by “However who’s in control of it is another question”? Who could be “who”?

 

[(Q)]

Hermann - Q is my userid, that is, unless you wish me to refer to you as Registered User?

Yes, Newtons theory was based on evidence, as was Einsteins. The measurable effects of gravity were little more than what technology could provide to measure them and what exactly can be measured.

That has nothing to do with the spiritual world as there does not appear to be any measurable effects, let alone evidence.

Now that we've cleared that up, I ask again, what are the measurable effects of the spirit world and why would you assume something could be measured? Is there some evidence we are now aware, perhaps an observation gone unobserved?

 

[devils_reject]

Scientists are committed to explain everything on a materialistic basis, because materialism is a dogma in all sciences. Such explanations are possible, but the question is, whether they are convincing and satisfying.

It has come to my attention that science is merely organized knowledge, and does not necessarily explain. The illusion is that similar to when anything is being organized its function is based on the arranger’s purpose. Take the orchestras, the arrangement of the instruments and band members, the instruments in question, the notes; all for the purpose of the piece. We may be evolving backwards for all we know, in fact in reality time travels in all axis and moment is all tat really exixts. Knowledge are convincing and satisfying to our purpose alone, which in turn is a summary and multiple of what we think we are. But what we think we are is an idea; nothing can ever know itself unless someone or something else tells it. All things can be arranged in a gazillion ways to fit any purpose or point of view.

There isn't even any reason to assume a spirit world exists.

Spirituality, to make sense even to an alien from mars is also an arrangement, the ultimate organization if you will. Afterlife, soul, even nature. All these notions have a system answering to a higher energy plane or working together to present one. I could find a broom on the floor but if I were an alien from Pluto It wouldn’t be of use to me, at least not for sweeping, maybe for scratching my itch. At the end of every day and age it all comes down to purpose. For its is purpose that allows us to exist. We are not here because we are free; we are here because of purpose, it precedes spirituality and the ultimate Zen. Purpose is a demon at best; it possesses entities and never the other way around. The question what is my purpose, I don’t think the greatest Gods can even answer otherwise it will all be blank. Of cause we are in auto pilot, we are always in it in one way or the other, if it’s not socio-cultural requirements, its religion, intellectual, or personality. What brought us here is still taking us along thus far, leading us along. The annoying creep likes to be quiet, after all if we eventually figure it out we won’t be behind anymore but alongside, which in a way is the end of our time or the realization of our own universe. Guidance they say... is more important than power.

 

[devils_reject]

In my opinion we all evolved, its simpler than asking where did God come from I guess. Our brain, body, and enviroment are in more control of our being than we think. Form follows function, we are somewhere knee deep inside this function as packets of concious energy, we have no control. The real control is done by the nature that allows us 10 fingers, which we got our number system from.We are but a drop of water in an ocean, we are a blimp in eons, we are a passer by pedeatrial on the interstellar expressway.

"I realized a long time ago that Just because I have a brain does not mean I am seperate from nature"- G. Carlin. Modern day comic

 

[sargentlard]

Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With New 'Intelligent Falling' Theory

 

[Xerxes]

Scientists are committed to explain everything on a materialistic basis, because materialism is a dogma in all sciences. Such explanations are possible, but the question is, whether they are convincing and satisfying.

Many sciences are immaterial, like uhhhh... all of the social sciences. Right? Right?

Not only can materialism and spirituality coexist, they're intertwined.

 

[Gekkou]

Gekkou, Water, Russ723,
Do you really believe that we and the whole universe exist only by chance – without any purpose behind?

Yes, at least in the sense of what we understand purpose to be. Sometimes I imagine that Nature has a purpose for us, but in the sense that there is order to things and thus perhaps there is enough order surrounding the small bit of the universe known as life on earth that our evolution has an inevitable outcome (barring any of many possible interruptions).
Think of it this way. If you put a jug of water on the side of a hill and push it over it will spill out and it will form little rivulets. Those two facts have to do with the nature of the water and the hill. They have nothing to do (except perhaps in the grandest possible way concerning connectedness of all things ("uni"verse)) with your intellect or intention. I look at the argument of an intelligent god creating the entire universe in the same way.

If scientists would believe in a spiritual world and would put similar efforts in its proof, I would assume something could be measured as well.

Why do you think they don't? Could it be a matter of practicality? Could it be that scientists study what seems to naturally follow from what they already know?

 

[Gekkou]

I almost agree. Only that the purpose of life becomes a trouble when one is depressed. Otherwise, the purpose of life is not questioned.

Like in the movie Matrix reloaded: only after Agent Smith is destroyed but fails to cease to exist (wouldn't that be depressing) does he find a need for purpose so intensely that he will seek to destroy EVERYTHING to find some purpose that can't be thwarted.

 

[devils_reject]

There is no purpose until one decides they need purpose. Then, they define their own purpose. That's how it works

I agree


I'd rather be entertained anyday than be bored with my own purpose. In fact I would see my purpose as some form of entertainment because life has become bigger than its purpose, otherwise why am I seeking its purpose in the first place. I am free, even if its an illusion.

 

[water]

Hermann,

Do you really believe that we and the whole universe exist only by chance – without any purpose behind?

I actually think this a false dichotomy -- to oppose chance and purpose.
I realize it is a traditional dichotomy that went unquestioned for a long time.
But I intuitively sense that there is something wrong with it. I can't yet say what exactly, I will think about it some more.



~water~

 

[Hermann]

Materialism is based on the belief that everything that exists is related to matter or energy. This includes non-material features like fields, information, ideas, and even our minds. Materialism is a dogma in all sciences, and their general working base. It commits also scientists in medicine, psychotherapy and psychology to work along the same lines.

Research in fields like psychology is mostly based on evidence not on measurements, which makes proofs more difficult. A very interesting example is the so-called “Near Death Experience (NDE):
Around 1970, the physician Raymond Moody began an investigation by interviewing many people who had been reanimated, meaning that they were dead or near to death. Those who could recall something and were willing to talk about it, reported amazing experiences. They reported that although they had left their bodies, they could see what people were trying to do with them. They could understand what those people were saying, and even observed events taking place outside the room. Many other researchers, working along similar lines, also found the same results.

However, other researchers conducted interviews to disprove such phenomena, and of course, they were successful, too.
Psychological studies and experiments carried out by investigators with opposite theoretical orientation can lead to conflicting results. The supposedly objective scientific method is here still subject to the beliefs of the experimenter.

Neurophysiologists are still convinced that everything connected with NDE were hallucinations, caused by remaining brain activities during the time when the heart has stopped beating. Witnessed reports of observations outside the room will be ignored or doubted.
If there would be a real interest in science to prove the existence of a spiritual world it could be done easily by detailed NDE studies performed by a group of researchers with different orientation. Reanimations take place daily in any hospital worldwide. But it seems to me, that there is no interest in science, because they fear to lose the dogma of materialism. Also churches are not interested in such research, because they may lose their monopoly in “afterlife”.

Water,
I would be very interested to learn what could be between chance and purpose. If the world exists by chance we have not to think about purpose. But if the world exists by a given purpose, then it can be assumed that the total world scenarios are perfect as I did.