I think the term irrationality needs a bit of a look at. For example: I will refer to vietnam veterans [ here in Australia ] Is it an irrational notion that a forcably conscripted soldier returning from a badly premised war, having witnessed and participated in teh slaughter of women and children [ even if they are the enemy and acting as the enemy] should find himself unable to function properly upon return to his home city or country? Is it irrational for a person who has had tragic childhood experineces [ re: PHP's story] and other extraordinary expereinces to be unable to fuction properly in a scoiety that wishes to ignore the validity and profudity of those expereinces? I would like to suggest that it is irrational to expect people to be towers of strength when they have not the support to be so. It is the irrationality of society that I feel is more of a problem than the individuals. So how does a doctor deal with these issues? Simply put: he can't. Most doctors know damn well that if you stick a knife in to a persons mental tapestry you can not honestly expect no injury or scaring. The doctors in the main are just as helplessly entrapped in these irrational expectations as the patientis. [ no funding, no real support, no empathy but cold economic rationalism.] We send soldiers off to war and expect no consequences? So I would suggest that a broader perspective on the issue of irrationality be adopted. A bit more understanding would go a long way. Do you see the general thrust of what I am attempting to put forward?
I admit i got pretty mad at Duendy there. It's just that I've spoken to quite a lot of people, and heard about so many more friend's/family of people, who are literally hearing voices that aren't there or are seeing things that aren't real, and it scares them, and that's a form of suffering that is so extreme and terrifying. I mean i'm a pretty eccentric person, I have alternative ideas and views which go outside the norm, and i certainly value individualism and culture etc, not to mention creativity which i value very highly. I should also remind people (if I don't enough already) that I do NOT accept the official explaination for 9/11 and that alone puts me in a unique group of people. (see documentary called "LOOSE CHANGE") I would be the last person to imply that everyone should be "normal" whatever that is -its simply my view that no-one deserves to suffer like that or want to kill themselves - when they have a chance to lead a happier life.
Awesome thread.... SO many Different mind's have Come together on this... From so Many different perspectives and points of views... Wow.. Truly incredible... I Do not know of any other place, then "science" that this could be Possible. Here we are all pretty much Equal... I am Hoping huwy unparticular realizes we are ALL equal on this forum.. Because all this is based on our own opinions and opinions of others. Plus experience's. The Mind Is a truly amazing space.... But there is one thing I feel that was over looked.... though the Process Of "delusions" is a state that can be over powering, and quite confusing, it boils down to the person who has experienced it as to "What now will they Do with this information?" "How will the information be processed by the person who's Experienced it?" ... For every Action there is a reaction..indeed, how will they now react.?.. Some Stay Quiet because they Don't want their "Reaction" to Come "full Circle" and hit them in the Ass... Some are adamant about their reactions Being correct on the basis that "others" with similar experiences have reacted in a same way... there for it must be the "correct way".......... We are all Unique to a point. But as a species we tend to compare our selves to one another to know "If we're doing it right"..... It's Called Social Structure... some of us Like it, some of us Don't ...... some of us want to push their opinions and prescriptions on Others so they can "mimic" that they "like it" ........... And some People ask for out and out help from Others and their experiences to assess whether or not their REACTION to the "DELUSION" is going to be Livably, Socially acceptable............. There is no bottom. We all Just have to "agree" just enough that we can tolerate our Environment with each other. Some times we forget as a species that that environment needs to Grow and spread and Change..... That is pretty scary..... SO with All that crap Said.... If we use the "delusional" "realm" .... the "Fabric of Psychosis" and Interlay it with what we have accepted to be "real" we are not Wrong unless we are Harming another persons existence to the point that ............. it physically hurts.. .... So where to Put the line on Reality and Delusion is up to the individual.... To a point. We should all just agree where that "point" should be. And I THINK that's Kind of where we are.....
I am personally concerned about the far too easy dismissals of the things that so-called psychotics believe. From my personal experience I know that a lot of those things are true way down the line. Bullies start early and drive hard. The person who is accused of being mental ill may in fact have no mental state that is inconsistent with his or her reality. Psychology "discovers" the state in teens to late teens. I guess teenagers are simply presumed not to suffer from stress syndromes, post-traumatic or post-partum. Even without "hearing voices" the victim is multiply cursed. He still has the bullies up his ass. He still has the disbelief about his victimization. He then begins to doubt his own observations. His parents and teachers treat him as mentally disabled, and this treatment is often abusive. He's been totally discounted and also labeled as likely to do violent acts.
Yes, I sure do. You're mostly talking about conditioning and it can cause severe patterns of irrationality! I suppose that once again the suicide bombers are a very good example of that. The conditioning even overcomes a very strong, basic instinct - the instinct of survival. No, I think it's wrong to place the blame on the "irrationality" of society in general, it's more a matter of apathy in that it doesn't provide the support that it should for these people. And you also need to realize that a very large amount of the blame also belongs on those individuals themselves. Why? Because many of them will not afford themselves of the help that IS offered. Without pointing to anyone in particular so that you might misunderstand my motive (again) for saying this, I believe you can see that resistance being clearly exhibited right here. My point is that medical science can do NOTHING if the individual with the problem is not willing to seek treatment. Sure - if they loose complete control and start running amok we have to restrain them in order to protect the general population. But that's rarely the case (thank goodness!) and the sad truth is that many of them won't seek relief because they are afraid of the stigmata attached to it. So they become their own worst enemy in this particular battle. From exactly what has been said here by others (again, no names - please! and nothing more intended) cannot you see that factor at work?
Dang IT huwy!........... lol.. Now I Totally am sorry for my last post because it was Completely Unnecessary to tell you that, since you just wrote it your self.. God Im sorry Dude.. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I have seen people try to work out their own psychosis with out the help of Dr.s and YES some times it goes VERY BADLY..... and I think that since things can BE that bad, that is WHY there is Such a jump on a person When Psychosis does happen because Dr.s HAVE seen it get VERY ugly.... but it does suck for those of Us who were Force fed Apathy as a child, learned on empathy And Just when It Seemed like it was all allright... "They come and lock you up it's A bitch.... and it's touchy, and tough and a hard topic to not Deal with out emotions because so much happens in that "pinch of Fabric" that the out come can be any thing. ............ But... any way Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I can go on and on about many things, Burst myself into a thousand little thoughts that look like butterflies, pull them all back together as rainbowed tad poles, and then Try to Figure if I really do like the Vanilla Ice cream Better the The Chocolate chip and Not Even Remember why I burst my thoughts out into a thousand pieces in the first place..... eh eh... But rest assured, I will remember Why again at about 3 am and wake up, think about it then repost what I just said in a different way Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ................ Psychosis... and the such... can be interesting... INDEED
I understand what you mean.. That's the thing about the net though light Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! you never know what ages or states of Minds are at play in reading what is being placed, and it can be very harmful. So, I See exactly what your saying. It's hard to Say when you should hang your head low and close your eyes and not watch. Or when you should react. It Sort of makes you Feel like a small helpless child. And all in all, it will still Boil Down to just YOU in the end wont it.
Maybe it goes badly sometimes when people try to work it out without the help of doctors, but I've read some statements by people who have been treated and gotten a lot sicker then they were before.
Exactly. There's a great deal of truth in what you have just said. And just to elaborate a bit on one thing you've pointed out - the age of the individual. All of us that have gone through it can (or should!) remember the frustrations of being a teen. It's a very troubling time, perhaps the most difficult you'll ever face, because your body, mind and hormones are all waging a terrific war - and you are caught right in the middle. One cannot tell what to make of it all. It would seem pretty clear that some of the people posting here are right in that stage. And others just never got past it.
Light has asked the people here to disbelieve my testimony about being damaged by bullies because my mind has been damaged by bullying. Think about it.
Just one more from the library of dismissals. Light, you were a bully when you were 7 years old and you're one now.
I did NO such thing!! As usual, you are letting your overactive imagination run away with you. :bugeye: Not only that, but you HAVE proven yourself to be a bit dim-witted so many times that I have no interest at all in conversing with you. I'm simply someone who is tired of your lying! Otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered to reply to your slander.
I So remember the Pain of Puberty... The confusion... The worst one was "how Right I always thought I was"... and how unsure I felt. Puberty is So Rough. The Time In Life when you hit that Rocky edged waterfall and HOPE for ALL there is to hope with, you will make it out and over with out the umbilical cord of harsh realty to tangle around your neck. And... you get older. Life smacks you back in place. Some times in places you didn't want to be put in. Society isn't a BAD place. It isn't a Perfect Solution... But it's Worked so Far. And When we Forget to care about, and to Fear, and to Protect... when we just throw every thing to the wind we are truly over. Not just as a species, but as a Moral intelligent creatures with Feelings and many many Gifts. And if any of us here wanted this to "end", we wouldn't be posting. What was it the moody blues said? "There you Go man, Keep as cool as you can. Take miles and Miles Of Trials With Smiles. I Riles them To believe That you Perceive the Web They weave. And Keep on, Thinking Free."
I've seen you act paranoid before. One time you thought I accused you of sexually molesting household pets. If you were capable of acting like a human being you would have something to contribute to this conversation.
Hey,..... It's alright Man... Chill... Don't let any one get to you like that. Take a Deep breath... Forget it. Meant nothing to me, And I bet didn't mean much to any one else. I mean.. except for a chuckle.. but come on.. you Guys are fine, And Have BOTH Valuable Insight! I don't want to see either of you Knocked out of here because your Angry. So Come on, Just blow it off.. No one needs the last word... ok? Were Cool. Here, Know why the bicycle wouldn't stand up? It was "two Tired" Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Feel better?
Metakron, you are the same silly little fool you always were. There was also no such event (concerning household pets) as you have claimed here. Neither was there the event you claimed a few posts earlier. Either you have me completely confused with someone else or you "problem" is much worse than any of us suspected. Oh - and I've never once exhibited even the slightest bit of paranoia in my entire life. You, on the other hand... And I've actually contributed quite a bit to this conversation, thank you very little. And tell me - do you still insist that heat pumps violate a basic law of thermodynamics? You were very adamant about that before.
I would be among the very first to agree to that in some cases. I don't have any figures on hand but I'd be willing to bet that the number of those is far less than you may have been led to believe. But let me ask you - if that does happen, is it worth it in order to get rid of the voices, internal pain and the things that drive many to suicide? Nothing in this world is perfect, but speaking for myself and some I've known, I'd choose that over being a serious risk to myself and others around me. In an instant.
The problem with all this, Light, is that it is easy to forget that we are talking about a persons life here, his dreams and aspirations, we are talking about a persons sense of self and self-proprietry. What you are saying is quite true, the best of a bad deal, sure, but that is not going to make it any easier for those who have to get up in the morning and deal with a day that they can not be receptive too because of their medicated states. It is also true that many [unfortunately not the majority] find a reasonable balance between stupification and daily needs. A doctor that has patiently worked with the patient to find the most comfortable solution. They are very fortunate indeed but possibly this is more because their experiences are less traumatic than others rather than just the good will and patience of the doctor. It seems that the more objective the doctor is the better the patient outcomes. Objectivity being needed all round I feel. And as most legal systems have moved towards, a greater respect of a persons freewill and personal integrity. nice in print and great when it is adhered to which unfortunately is not always the case.
