QQ, please keep in mind that you are dealing with some seriously warped personalities here. One has been slowly destroying her mind with drugs since she was 15. Another was so traumatized by bullies in school (he is clearly a weakling in both the physical and intellectual senses) that he cannot be fully rational either. Also remember that I mentioned earlier that everyone has irrational moments at times. So what these two (and others) are trying to do is take that fact and muddy the water. The first one want to claim that there is NO such thing as mental illness - due primarily to the fact that she doesn't want to admit she suffers from it. The second wants to blame the mental health establishment rather than face the fact that his problems are actually the result of his own personal inadequacies. And I need to once again state something - perhaps even more clearly this time. It is very true that there's no such thing as "normal." Yet, professionally, that term simply means "the ability to function in society without presenting evidence of chronic mental aberration." What does that mean? That anyone/everyone may, at times, exhibit "something" that might not be considered "the norm" but that in NO way indicates mental defect. However, there ARE types of behavior that are clearly abnormal - I believe you understand that. Despite the words spoken here by those so obviously impaired by their own disturbed thinking, it is NOT the goal of those involved in treating mental health disorders to drug the population into some sort of complacency. Not in the least!!!! Rather, the goal is to allow them to enjoy a better quality of life. So carefully consider some things that have been said here. And as always, consider the source and their motivations.
Yet another troubled young man. Care to explain exactly what it was I said that you so strongly disagree with?
me))haha dude exista. i grow mo and mo to like yu by the day Huwy...have reread last reply. ok, maybe i was a little heavy. sorry.,,,,BUT u can piss me off. cause u dont seem to tae on board what i am saying. i am NOT playing a game. but you seem to believe tat i am. is Dr Baughman? doesn't he know his stuff? you ca claim i am just an artist or whatever. but Buaghman, Szasz et al, tey are putting fpreward extremely good critiques against bio-psychiatry. i am VERY passionate about this issue. espcially because millions of children are being dragged into it. somehow you seem to believe there is safety in numbers. ie., how many pharma-patronizind shrinks tell you whats what. are you S sure? i m not, and tats why i can get angrywith you sometimes Light---Light____mr frikken normal mimself look at te LANGUAGE you use. how you cahnge the wording and it stays the same. ! do you think i ws born yesterdayt and i cant see tru your BS..or something? i go to you with my concerns, and you turn it around and 'diagnose' it mental illness. well, yes, thats what you mindset does isn't it? exactly. well explained!
First off, good man.... I thought simply that you were talking about me in here. Am I right? Ok then, thats what kinda got my attention. I'm sure you know that, and how still you're wrong about it. Plus your letter is practically shit. Good man though... I think. Right--- talk to us without adressing us, call us crap and deny our ideas? Did you deny our ideas, or don't want to adress them. I think that QQ likes our input for the most part. Also you are talking like you know all about us, and you are denying all the seroiusness. What do I object to? Simple: I object to you period. And I can't be "too" wrong about that, even if I am wrong. You are talking to qq though, good for that. And our warped personalities, you're quite nice aren't you. QQ is a much more perceptive person than you think. I'm sure he knows what you claim to know. I don't like you. Come on, cut me down some more you flamo.
What a conceited little twerp! No, dummy, I was NOT talking about you!!!!!! And stop acting like such an infantile little child. I'm not the least bit interested in knowing you OR what your problems happen to be. Go back and cry to mommy and leave the adults alone.
You are the dummy. I am probably smarter than you, and I do have imput. Crying to mommie would be a good thing, but know what, I think I should tear you down first.
LIght, Firstly, I do not appreciate being used as a reflector for your criticism of others. If you have a criticism you wish to make about someone else I suggest you direct that criticism in a more direct fashion to them. I have come to learn that Duendy has much to offer even if it is sometimes conveyed in overly passionate ways. I find it sad that you can not see the case that Duendy is puting. Whilst I am reluctant to get into to much argument about it because communication is difficult [ strong passion] I can surely see what duendy is offering. The same applies with Metakron, Brent, PHp and others and hey man even you..... I guess given the highly charged nature of this mental health issue is no wonder that opinion becomes so polarised. Secondly, There is no doubt that western society is under great strain from the reality of mental illness, disorder, disturbness, dysfunction, disease, and so on. [ what ever you wish to call it] amongst it's members. We can not deny we as a society have a problem that appears to be growing and is incredibly hard to fix. We canot deny that psychosis by it's general meaning exists. To do so would be to partake in that psychosis. The reality is that some persons are incredibly ill. [However is this illness philosophically correct as being called mental illness or is it better to call is a significnat societal illness? As duendy,I think is trying to propose] Now if we can all agree that this is true, may be then and only then can we set to an arguement about what causes this huge problem that society faces. Whether mental illness is caused by society or not does not allow us the choice or freedom to ignore the reailty of it's impact. It is too late to talk of societal reform when confronted with a person and his family desparate for assistance. So I see in this sci forum feud that is going on a need to clarify the arguement so that we don't mix up our realities. Are we talkig about causality or are we talking about the reality that some people are actually very ill?
I'm very sorry you choose to take it that way. That wasn't at all what I intended. And with that, I'll stop bothering you.
Light!!! If you want to prove Metakrons allegations about societal bullying as correct you are sure doing a good job of it.
I actually feel sorry for you now. You aren't even equipped to attack me, much less "tear me down." Come back and try that when you've grown up a little - at least then perhaps you won't seem quite as foolish as you do right now.
Oh, i am not equiped to attack or tear you down eh? This is a great thread, we have examples of all the stuff here. Even someone who dis-likes the mentally ill and is ill-brained. ya know though----we should quit this crap. Light, you're right. I should go away now. Would probably do me good. Thanks! By the way, I can spot every flaw in you, make you feel like crap and attack all your worth. This is my skill. If you want me to, just ask me, I will make you feel worthless.
Ahhh!! Brent, you are getting to understand the notion of reflective reasoning....sure in a negative environment but hey can't have it perfect yes? Make someone feel as worthess as they make you feel. Just need to bring in the positive and you are on your way....... As they often say in the Star Wars films : "Beware of the dark side"
Oh I can burst, and light will learn a lot, he may learn what light means, because his username is an oxymoron. Not only that. I don't want to burst and haven't yet on sci-forums. I will stop there to slow down and leave this excellent thread and the very very smart qq, who happens to be the only good man in the thread. I might come back and I hope it stays on topic, enjoy!
Sure. I certainly can be a very effective bully when I want to drive home a point to whiners. It's actually the only form of social contact they respond to. Pity doesn't work at all since they already bathe themselves in it at every opportunity. It only serves to drive them deeper and allows them to wallow in it even more. Do I seem harsh to you? Probably. But it's the only effective means of getting through to them - aside from medication. Are you really ready for this bit of revelation (I doubt it)? Honest attempts to understand them only reinforces their fears that they were right all along!! As I have told you - and others - so many times before, treatment is not my field. But I DO understand that the most effective means is to NOT agree with them but rather to force them to see reality as it actually is.
Light I agree with one of your points there, that's about it. Nor do I like being pittied, and you are a stupid bully at that, and your point only shows how your being a bully to someone who knows your wrong, shows you need more effort. I don't know how long you can hold out! QQ, I am going to send you a pm in regards to this thread.
Light, It may not have been as you intended, however when you write such an inflamitory posts knowing theat the target of your heat is going to read it you can not honestly expect it to come across as intended yes? or was that the intention. it doesn't matter now actually, as it is now a "historical" document. Unfortunately you had some good points in that post that are now covered in flame. You have mentioned again or at aleast alluded to it the issue of persistance. That a fleeting moment of irrationality [ a word yet to be fully defined] does not necesssarilly get the label psychosis. If the same irrationality persist however it MAY get this label [ as per the clinical interpretations ] I see this as a very valid point.
.....and here in lies what I see as our most significant problem [ socially] This desire to force someone to do anything. The reality is: You can not force anyone to do anything, or at least not with out expecting some sort of resultant back-lash against your attempts to do so. The reality is......psychosis is a denial of reality. To attempt to force someone to do anything is a denial of the reality that there are consequences to applying that force [ SDV's for those who know the relevance] Intolerance and anger being the most common outcome, not to mention paranoia. You put pressure on people to do as you want them to do and they bite you on the bum...simple really. Society is telling people how to think and well people don't like being told how to think and what to think...end of story. Forcing someone to accept your interpretation of reality is only going to lead to oppression with conflict or just out right conflict.
QQ, I'm not one to operate with a hidden agenda of any sort. I intended it precisely as it was a presented. A simple cautionary statement to you that while attempting to understand all this objectively (as I assume you are attempting to do) to be wary of the subjectively of those who do have an agenda in the matter. Nothing more than that. Unfortunately you had some good points in that post that are now covered in flame. You have mentioned again or at aleast alluded to it the issue of persistance. I beg to differ mildly and say the term "irrationality" has, indeed, been pretty well defined. It simply means an inappropriate response to a stimuli or condition. I'm more than certain that you already understood that. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
